Also to be said: Because Jews are Multi-Racial, Zionism is Not Racist: Jews are not a single Race, because Judaism has welcomed millions of Converts from all of the Races of the World throughout history. Further, Zionism gives Jews special access to Israel as a place of Safety from murder because of our Religious Identity. It is the Anti-Semite who has called Jews a single race, and killed us in the past because Jews had no Nation to flee to to escape Genocide. Now we have Israel.
Pat Johnson, thank you for sharing such as excessively positive, idealized view of Zionism, very kind of you, and… I disagree for reasons already stated in this sentence, above.
I am an Israeli, had lived in Israel between 10-32 years of age, arriving with my parents and grandparents from USSR via Poland on the basis of the newly established Repatriation Program, initiated by USSR in 1956 for those who could prove that they were born in counties on inside the “Iron Curtain”, e.g., Poland, Romania, Hungary, Slovakia; we arrived in 1960. My father survived the Holocaust as a teenager in Western Ukraine, a region that probably had the lowest ratio of surviving Jews in WW2, as the local population of Western Ukrainians started to run genocidal programs even before the occupying Nazis started to organize their “Final Solution” death machine. The values of the family have always been very humanitarian and inclusive, mostly with Social-Democratic political flavor, while also self-employed and entrepreneurial. We have never defined ourselves as Zionists, the term Zionism was not a “thing” when I and my neighborhood mates were growing up in the 1960s. We were immigrant Israelis, who loved our whereabouts, proud to be Israelis, to study well, serve in the IDF (mostly in academic reserve, which required infantry boot camp and squad commander school, and officers’ training at “Bahad #1” — the IDF basic course for all officers, before the next step of specialty completion, which defined our branch of the military. We travelled the geography extensively, mostly inside the “Green Line”, even before being part of the IDF training and field training in the West Bank, Golan Heights and Sinai. It included physically challenging activities in our teens, e.g., the “Night 30km (? or more, not sure) March of the Negev,” and the “Crossing of the Sea of Galilee” (not really crossing, just 4.5km swim at the southeastern part of the lake); I still have the rusting bronze medals to show for these endeavors.
Bottom line: for me and my mates, who referred to Israel as the “Only Land”, to emphasize our identity, and our loyalty and care, as all of were committed atheists, with nothing holly about the locations we travelled on foot everywhere, although we were familiar with these locations from the compulsory studies of the Old Testament in our secular school; the curriculum was quite intellectual, taught by a female teacher who was brilliant in stimulating discussions about the politics and history of the document’s authorship.
The word “Zionism” for us was relevant for Jews who lived in Diaspora AND as an identifier for the religious parties in Israel, who supported the State of Israel, served in the IDF and had a paying job rather than living on charity, in contrast to the “Haredim”, who wished for the destruction of Israel, as according to their beliefs, Jews taking their destiny in their hands and establishing the sovereign state of Israel were presumably delaying the coming of the Messiah. For us it had never been a belief system, living in Israel was our reality, as we considered it our ancestral land, going about 2,500-3,000 years back, and us being lucky to be part of the revival of the ancient nation, with zero reference to omnipotent entities of any kind — it was just our history.
I have A question for you Mr Hauptman. Do you think Israelis, and people who support Israel from outside of the country, have become more Religious in the years since the 1950's? Best wishes. Dan
Dan, you can call me Oscar, to reduce the formality.
To your question, I don’t have a clear sense of Diaspora’s religiosity and especially its trends, as I always have had a disconnect with this Jewish population because I am NOT a practicing Jew-by-birth. My son married a Japanese woman and his descendants have little connection with Israel and Judaism, probably as much as my Thai wife and our daughter.
But my perception is that any Jew in Diaspora has to religiously observing, as otherwise what makes this person Jewish, with a sense of belonging to a sovereign Jewish state?
Dan, all clear. I better stop trying to respond, too many typos and deletes, at this late hour (22:30 Friday). I will pick up in about 10 hours, tired eyes, reading and writing. I’m 74, and it starts to show. Be well!
Many thanks, Oscar. In fact Jews here in the Diaspora as so refined that their Jewish Identity is now primarily an intellectual one it seems to me. This does not make us less Jewish. My Parents are both Jewish (Russian Ashkanazi), but my identity as a Jew comes from my deep Anti-Fascism, that is to say as a target of The Nazis of which I have first hand experience. I have only become more religious as I enter my 60's.
I don’t mean to be skeptical, but I do not see how these criteria make me a Zionist (It can be replaced with many other "labels.") However, I am happy to be corrected if I’ve missed something.
I never considered myself a Zionist despite having love and admiration (by and large, not about everything) of Israel.
Adding to that, from the very outset, the definition of Jewishness has been predicated upon three element: a creator deity, a covenant, and a specific group of people. Central to this compact is a territory that unites all three elements. In other words, the connection of a people to a place which ultimately defines whom and what they are, in today's parlance, Zionism. How best to implement it — as a religious, secular, socialist, communist, capitalist, etc. system — is an ongoing debate.
Given that some 3,000+ years has passed since the inception of the founding principles around which these people coalesced, many variations of emphasis have emerged. Nonetheless, they have not abrogated the central identity of this people. That is why they endure to this day.
They are Jews and therefore as much at the heart and centre as Israeli Jews.
What is the real difference between diasporic and Israeli secular Jews? Secular is secular. Not to forget, there are many shades of secularism. What actually does distinguish diasporic Jews from Israeli Jews is assimilation, as opposed to integration within these societies. Integration is always at the permission of the host society. Assimilation, rooted in a pretense to belong, is ultimately the desire to be seen as no different than the Other.
Felt you undercut your argument for a moment by straying into the 'Covid Vaccine' 'conspiracy theory' debate. Plenty of evidence out there to show these vaccines are NOT the safe thing they were billed as...(and many deaths and injuries under reported.) But otherwise, yes, I'm a paid up, unapologetic Zionist.
This article, like so any others, as well as politicians and the world media at large, casually refer to "Palestinians" and "Palestine" as given realities which would be heresy to question. Would that this were so because then life would be so much simpler: Palestinians have lived in Palestine since forever, at least as far back as the Pleistocene Epoch. Jews are enemy alien foreign, colonial, settler, johnny-come-lately interlopers who have no right being there. Get rid of them and we will have world peace. Alas, history, archeology, International Law, and Customary International Law does not support this narrative, not that facts have gotten in the way of politically and religeo-cultural self-serving propaganda. Witness the worldwide media, the halls of power, the UN, and not least the streets and campuses in major cities across the west.
The more proper term for the word Palestinian is Judean, Samarian or Gazan in Arab. As for Palestine, There has never been a Palestinian king, president, or prime minister. There has never been a Palestinian government. There has never been a Palestinian constitution. There has never been a Palestinian currency. Nor any other customary markers of an established, distinctive national entity.
The sad thing is that one people standing at the forefront promoting this narrative are the Jews themselves, oblivious to the fact that every time they do so they lend credence to this political fiction, ultimately at the expense of their own legitimacy.
Yes, it will be a long and arduous uphill battle, but unless and until Jews take the lead and start to correct this willful misinformation and disinformation on the grounds of their legitimate indigeneity, they will lose the PR war. In this sorry case, under the pressure of their citizenry, nations of the world will openly turn against Israel to complete its transformation into a pariah state, with all that implies. correct this willful misinformation and disinformation on the grounds of their legitimate indigeneity,
Some people who liked my comment apparently related it to my copying the definition from the post.- Please note that it was NOT my definition; I merely responded to the question of whether I agree with it. (and I do agree with the definition). My own comment was that I do not consider myself a Zionist simply because I do not apply ANY labels to myself. Thank you."
Also to be said: Because Jews are Multi-Racial, Zionism is Not Racist: Jews are not a single Race, because Judaism has welcomed millions of Converts from all of the Races of the World throughout history. Further, Zionism gives Jews special access to Israel as a place of Safety from murder because of our Religious Identity. It is the Anti-Semite who has called Jews a single race, and killed us in the past because Jews had no Nation to flee to to escape Genocide. Now we have Israel.
Yes, I am a Zionist (and a proud one!)
I am a Zionist ❤️
Thanks, Pat. With the inclusion of Dan’s caveat below, this is persuasive and right on point.
I'm a proud Gentile Christian Zionist. I LOVE this article!
This is perfect!
I am a Christian Zionist.
Pat Johnson, thank you for sharing such as excessively positive, idealized view of Zionism, very kind of you, and… I disagree for reasons already stated in this sentence, above.
I am an Israeli, had lived in Israel between 10-32 years of age, arriving with my parents and grandparents from USSR via Poland on the basis of the newly established Repatriation Program, initiated by USSR in 1956 for those who could prove that they were born in counties on inside the “Iron Curtain”, e.g., Poland, Romania, Hungary, Slovakia; we arrived in 1960. My father survived the Holocaust as a teenager in Western Ukraine, a region that probably had the lowest ratio of surviving Jews in WW2, as the local population of Western Ukrainians started to run genocidal programs even before the occupying Nazis started to organize their “Final Solution” death machine. The values of the family have always been very humanitarian and inclusive, mostly with Social-Democratic political flavor, while also self-employed and entrepreneurial. We have never defined ourselves as Zionists, the term Zionism was not a “thing” when I and my neighborhood mates were growing up in the 1960s. We were immigrant Israelis, who loved our whereabouts, proud to be Israelis, to study well, serve in the IDF (mostly in academic reserve, which required infantry boot camp and squad commander school, and officers’ training at “Bahad #1” — the IDF basic course for all officers, before the next step of specialty completion, which defined our branch of the military. We travelled the geography extensively, mostly inside the “Green Line”, even before being part of the IDF training and field training in the West Bank, Golan Heights and Sinai. It included physically challenging activities in our teens, e.g., the “Night 30km (? or more, not sure) March of the Negev,” and the “Crossing of the Sea of Galilee” (not really crossing, just 4.5km swim at the southeastern part of the lake); I still have the rusting bronze medals to show for these endeavors.
Bottom line: for me and my mates, who referred to Israel as the “Only Land”, to emphasize our identity, and our loyalty and care, as all of were committed atheists, with nothing holly about the locations we travelled on foot everywhere, although we were familiar with these locations from the compulsory studies of the Old Testament in our secular school; the curriculum was quite intellectual, taught by a female teacher who was brilliant in stimulating discussions about the politics and history of the document’s authorship.
The word “Zionism” for us was relevant for Jews who lived in Diaspora AND as an identifier for the religious parties in Israel, who supported the State of Israel, served in the IDF and had a paying job rather than living on charity, in contrast to the “Haredim”, who wished for the destruction of Israel, as according to their beliefs, Jews taking their destiny in their hands and establishing the sovereign state of Israel were presumably delaying the coming of the Messiah. For us it had never been a belief system, living in Israel was our reality, as we considered it our ancestral land, going about 2,500-3,000 years back, and us being lucky to be part of the revival of the ancient nation, with zero reference to omnipotent entities of any kind — it was just our history.
I have A question for you Mr Hauptman. Do you think Israelis, and people who support Israel from outside of the country, have become more Religious in the years since the 1950's? Best wishes. Dan
Dan, you can call me Oscar, to reduce the formality.
To your question, I don’t have a clear sense of Diaspora’s religiosity and especially its trends, as I always have had a disconnect with this Jewish population because I am NOT a practicing Jew-by-birth. My son married a Japanese woman and his descendants have little connection with Israel and Judaism, probably as much as my Thai wife and our daughter.
But my perception is that any Jew in Diaspora has to religiously observing, as otherwise what makes this person Jewish, with a sense of belonging to a sovereign Jewish state?
All the best!
Dan, all clear. I better stop trying to respond, too many typos and deletes, at this late hour (22:30 Friday). I will pick up in about 10 hours, tired eyes, reading and writing. I’m 74, and it starts to show. Be well!
Many thanks, Oscar. In fact Jews here in the Diaspora as so refined that their Jewish Identity is now primarily an intellectual one it seems to me. This does not make us less Jewish. My Parents are both Jewish (Russian Ashkanazi), but my identity as a Jew comes from my deep Anti-Fascism, that is to say as a target of The Nazis of which I have first hand experience. I have only become more religious as I enter my 60's.
I’m most definitely a Zionist. 💯
Not difficult. Yes, I have been a Zionist since visiting Israel in 1968.
I don’t mean to be skeptical, but I do not see how these criteria make me a Zionist (It can be replaced with many other "labels.") However, I am happy to be corrected if I’ve missed something.
I never considered myself a Zionist despite having love and admiration (by and large, not about everything) of Israel.
Do you agree with his definition of Zionist?
"A Zionist is someone who believes the Jewish People have a right to national self-determination in their ancestral and modern homeland. "
Yes.
Adding to that, from the very outset, the definition of Jewishness has been predicated upon three element: a creator deity, a covenant, and a specific group of people. Central to this compact is a territory that unites all three elements. In other words, the connection of a people to a place which ultimately defines whom and what they are, in today's parlance, Zionism. How best to implement it — as a religious, secular, socialist, communist, capitalist, etc. system — is an ongoing debate.
Given that some 3,000+ years has passed since the inception of the founding principles around which these people coalesced, many variations of emphasis have emerged. Nonetheless, they have not abrogated the central identity of this people. That is why they endure to this day.
Where does it leave diaspora Jews? And more so, diaspora SECULAR Jews?
They are Jews and therefore as much at the heart and centre as Israeli Jews.
What is the real difference between diasporic and Israeli secular Jews? Secular is secular. Not to forget, there are many shades of secularism. What actually does distinguish diasporic Jews from Israeli Jews is assimilation, as opposed to integration within these societies. Integration is always at the permission of the host society. Assimilation, rooted in a pretense to belong, is ultimately the desire to be seen as no different than the Other.
I totally agree! Assimilation is my pet peeve.
This is a great list
Felt you undercut your argument for a moment by straying into the 'Covid Vaccine' 'conspiracy theory' debate. Plenty of evidence out there to show these vaccines are NOT the safe thing they were billed as...(and many deaths and injuries under reported.) But otherwise, yes, I'm a paid up, unapologetic Zionist.
This article, like so any others, as well as politicians and the world media at large, casually refer to "Palestinians" and "Palestine" as given realities which would be heresy to question. Would that this were so because then life would be so much simpler: Palestinians have lived in Palestine since forever, at least as far back as the Pleistocene Epoch. Jews are enemy alien foreign, colonial, settler, johnny-come-lately interlopers who have no right being there. Get rid of them and we will have world peace. Alas, history, archeology, International Law, and Customary International Law does not support this narrative, not that facts have gotten in the way of politically and religeo-cultural self-serving propaganda. Witness the worldwide media, the halls of power, the UN, and not least the streets and campuses in major cities across the west.
The more proper term for the word Palestinian is Judean, Samarian or Gazan in Arab. As for Palestine, There has never been a Palestinian king, president, or prime minister. There has never been a Palestinian government. There has never been a Palestinian constitution. There has never been a Palestinian currency. Nor any other customary markers of an established, distinctive national entity.
The sad thing is that one people standing at the forefront promoting this narrative are the Jews themselves, oblivious to the fact that every time they do so they lend credence to this political fiction, ultimately at the expense of their own legitimacy.
Yes, it will be a long and arduous uphill battle, but unless and until Jews take the lead and start to correct this willful misinformation and disinformation on the grounds of their legitimate indigeneity, they will lose the PR war. In this sorry case, under the pressure of their citizenry, nations of the world will openly turn against Israel to complete its transformation into a pariah state, with all that implies. correct this willful misinformation and disinformation on the grounds of their legitimate indigeneity,
To see the points being made here articulated by a former insider from the Arab camp, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLskICrhHzk
Some people who liked my comment apparently related it to my copying the definition from the post.- Please note that it was NOT my definition; I merely responded to the question of whether I agree with it. (and I do agree with the definition). My own comment was that I do not consider myself a Zionist simply because I do not apply ANY labels to myself. Thank you."