The two-state solution is an ignorant idea because it will not afford Israel security, not bring peace, and not liberate Palestinians from dictatorship. It fails on all counts.
The problem I see with this is that the Palestinians will work against any solution that doesn’t give them the entire region. If they are given their own state it will fail because it’s almost impossible to create a workable government amongst them without corruption. And the factions and their inability to compromise will ultimately lead you to failure. If they have their own state then only that state will fail. But if we try to establish one state with 2.3 million people that hate Jews, the entire state will fail.
Which means that the mindset of Palestinians must change appropriately to even consider it. The message that Israel under sovereign Jewish rule is an unequivocal fact, delivered in words and deeds, is a requirement. It also has to be supported by by actions that symbolize and emulate the rules practice of conflict resolution typical of such a residence-based structure, to develop trust while, at the same time, rigidly adhering to this structure, internally and externally, watching out for any emergence of radicalization on either side and rejecting it with prejudice.
Not simple, but continuous war is the alternative, with its test being level fanaticism and stubbornness, sacrificing lives and infrastructural resources that should be used to build the future, not destroy any possibility of peace.
I would hope that once Palestinians are able to have their basic rights met, food, medical, shelter without fear of violence they maybe they may realise it’s a better way to live.
The Military Occupation of Area A and Area B (outlined thus in the Oslo Accords) is Legal because these blocks prevent the smuggling of Heavy-Duty weapons into the West Bank. Thus, Israel's Martial Law in West Bank and Gaza prevents Hamas putting their Genocidal plan against The Jewish People (Hamas is monitored in Alliance with The Re-Formed Nazi Party here in Europe) into action, and therefore under International Law, Martial Law and The Occupation is Legal.
Among the other flaws in this argument - no Arab nation would in a million years grant a Palestinian citizenship, especially if it helps Israel.
This is Israel’s problem. It cannot allow the existence of a Palestinian state on its border with the current state of affairs as it is. It cannot absorb a Palestinian population, whether as citizens or permanent residents because that still doesn’t solve the problem of terrorism and violence against Jews. In fact, it could make the problem worse. Palestinians cannot be expelled because there is no country that will take them. The root cause is the Palestinian animosity that has been allowed to build up against Jews and has been fueled by forces both inside and outside of Palestinian society. What has to happen is that Palestinian society has to be rebuilt from the ground up. Incitement needs to be removed from schools, mosques and the media. Refugee camps -along with UNRWA need to be dismantled. Palestinian leadership needs to be replaced. Think West Germany after WWII. I honestly don’t know if this can be achieved, but it’s virtually certain that the solution proposed by the author is unrealistic, to say the least.
In order for a one state solution to happen, it would take years and several generations to deprogram the hate for Jews they've been taught. As of now, the only solution they want and is the destruction of Israel and the Jews who live there. This would be an invitation for disaster and it wouldn't be as simple as was said, that if they don't like the conditions, they can leave. They wouldn't. They would stay and cause trouble which is why the Arab countries don't want them. This is an extremely complex problem with no easy solutions. It's an idealistic idea, but in these times, I prefer reality.
I understand people want to grapple with the problem. And I understand the Jewish urge to be the good guy and the smart guy who solves the problem.But you don’t reward criminal behavior with privileges. Fuggedaboutit.The Palestinians in their present incarnation (and all prior incarnations btw) won’t tolerate Israel. Inviting them in, even if they can’t vote will not solve the fundamental problem for all the obvious reasons. It’s not the Jews’ job to solve a problem that was created by the Arab Muslims. When the Palestinian Arabs get tired of murder and refugee status, maybe they’ll behave. But that’s on them. Jews need to stop explainjng themselves and stop worrying about placating the enemy. It’s only created more problems to try and come to terms with these homicidal maniacs. I know your heart is in the right place, but Puerto Rico has millions of nice people and a few nuts. The Gaza Strip and The “ West Bank” are not Puerto Rico.
The end of 'The Two State' plan does NOT imply 'The One State' plan. For the West Bank and Gazan Territories for Palestinians will not become Israel, nor will the Palestinians there be Israelis. But they can have self-administration where this does not threaten Israel's security. Remember, Israel's Martial Law in West Bank and Gaza prevents Hamas putting their Genocidal plan against The Jewish People (Hamas is monitored in Alliance with The Re-Formed Nazi Party here in Europe) into action, and therefore under International Law Martial Law and The Occupation is Legal.
any such scheme will be called "apartheid " " by the "Palestinians" I've written and posted on line the Iraq model....the Kurds are not the darlings of the left so they don't get a state....they have a virtual state within Iraq. Let the West BAnk and Gaza accept status as an autonomous overseas territory of Ireland. Or possiby a suitable arrangement with Jordan ..."east palestine" They'll have their seat at the UN...continue to slam Israel in the world's court....have a flag on the pole at Rock Center....and an Olympic team. They'll have plenty of Palestine arts festivals and movie festivals and theater around the US and Britain the way they have now. Because the poor Tibetans and the poor Kurds and the poor Sudanese....welll Susan sarandon simply does n' give a crap about them.
I actually wrote my last two Substack posts on this very topic, and then re-wrote the second part after reading another post from Nachum Kaplan. I'm not as polished as Mr. Kaplan but if anyone would like to give it a read and see what they think here is the link to Part II. There is a link in that entry to Part I.
Due to the fact that too many are fixated on a two state solution and are too ignorant to realize that a two state solution cannot happen when one side wants to destroy the other, lets okay a two state solution but in terms of a long term plan with the end goal of two states. No one says two states should happen overnight. How long was that ridiculous Iran deal? Wasn't it 15-20 years long with stages? Do the same thing with the 2 state solution. There are stages to be reached and requirements to be accomplished. What are the requirements? We can start with the eradication of Hamas, then a newly elected democratic authority that offers checks and balances and elections every number of years, a complete overhaul of the educational system where hate is not taught and true history is of Jews and Israel, no more terrorism attacks and the list goes on and on.
At the end of the process, and if all requirements are met, we can now have a two state solution.
Bottom line: we use the two state solution to actually give us what we need to see real change in Palestinian society. We have been attacked for 75 years, the two state solution can wait for 20-30 years or more. We can call it the Palestinian Deal . papa j
Yes, it is a great idea , one state solution, Israel , and the Palestinians as residents, with all the benefits of citizenship......but about the hate they have against us, they teach their children to hate us and to kill us ...that is going to change all of the sudden?.....
It won't change "all of a sudden". It would take some time. But steps must be taken to change it, and simply killing Hamasniks goes in the opposite direction (though it might be necessary as a first step, since most Hamasniks are immune to changing their hatred through other means besides death). How about importing Sufis into Gaza and West Bank and putting them in charge of the educational system? They are peaceful muslims and could possibly change young hearts and minds.
There can never be a two state solution in Israel. It would result in all out war! The idiots that suggest this live in cloud ignoramus land! Something that makes them feel meaningful!
Talk about the ignoramus Keir Starmer! He sees himself as a dictator! In the 40 years that I have been following politics in Britain , I have never seen such vitriol and hate directed at a politician ever before. It is astonishing. This man will never survive a second term. We will remove him! Just have to fight him in the mean time!
The problem I see with this is that the Palestinians will work against any solution that doesn’t give them the entire region. If they are given their own state it will fail because it’s almost impossible to create a workable government amongst them without corruption. And the factions and their inability to compromise will ultimately lead you to failure. If they have their own state then only that state will fail. But if we try to establish one state with 2.3 million people that hate Jews, the entire state will fail.
You describe the entire Arab world.
Seventh century tribes.
Nothing more.
Obviously so!
Which means that the mindset of Palestinians must change appropriately to even consider it. The message that Israel under sovereign Jewish rule is an unequivocal fact, delivered in words and deeds, is a requirement. It also has to be supported by by actions that symbolize and emulate the rules practice of conflict resolution typical of such a residence-based structure, to develop trust while, at the same time, rigidly adhering to this structure, internally and externally, watching out for any emergence of radicalization on either side and rejecting it with prejudice.
Not simple, but continuous war is the alternative, with its test being level fanaticism and stubbornness, sacrificing lives and infrastructural resources that should be used to build the future, not destroy any possibility of peace.
All the best,
Oscar
I would hope that once Palestinians are able to have their basic rights met, food, medical, shelter without fear of violence they maybe they may realise it’s a better way to live.
What about the suicide bombing?
What about Settlers’ violence, תג מחיר, stealing Arab land?
Jews own 0.2% of the land owned by the Arab world. How much of it is stolen/occupied?
The Military Occupation of Area A and Area B (outlined thus in the Oslo Accords) is Legal because these blocks prevent the smuggling of Heavy-Duty weapons into the West Bank. Thus, Israel's Martial Law in West Bank and Gaza prevents Hamas putting their Genocidal plan against The Jewish People (Hamas is monitored in Alliance with The Re-Formed Nazi Party here in Europe) into action, and therefore under International Law, Martial Law and The Occupation is Legal.
Among the other flaws in this argument - no Arab nation would in a million years grant a Palestinian citizenship, especially if it helps Israel.
This is Israel’s problem. It cannot allow the existence of a Palestinian state on its border with the current state of affairs as it is. It cannot absorb a Palestinian population, whether as citizens or permanent residents because that still doesn’t solve the problem of terrorism and violence against Jews. In fact, it could make the problem worse. Palestinians cannot be expelled because there is no country that will take them. The root cause is the Palestinian animosity that has been allowed to build up against Jews and has been fueled by forces both inside and outside of Palestinian society. What has to happen is that Palestinian society has to be rebuilt from the ground up. Incitement needs to be removed from schools, mosques and the media. Refugee camps -along with UNRWA need to be dismantled. Palestinian leadership needs to be replaced. Think West Germany after WWII. I honestly don’t know if this can be achieved, but it’s virtually certain that the solution proposed by the author is unrealistic, to say the least.
In order for a one state solution to happen, it would take years and several generations to deprogram the hate for Jews they've been taught. As of now, the only solution they want and is the destruction of Israel and the Jews who live there. This would be an invitation for disaster and it wouldn't be as simple as was said, that if they don't like the conditions, they can leave. They wouldn't. They would stay and cause trouble which is why the Arab countries don't want them. This is an extremely complex problem with no easy solutions. It's an idealistic idea, but in these times, I prefer reality.
I understand people want to grapple with the problem. And I understand the Jewish urge to be the good guy and the smart guy who solves the problem.But you don’t reward criminal behavior with privileges. Fuggedaboutit.The Palestinians in their present incarnation (and all prior incarnations btw) won’t tolerate Israel. Inviting them in, even if they can’t vote will not solve the fundamental problem for all the obvious reasons. It’s not the Jews’ job to solve a problem that was created by the Arab Muslims. When the Palestinian Arabs get tired of murder and refugee status, maybe they’ll behave. But that’s on them. Jews need to stop explainjng themselves and stop worrying about placating the enemy. It’s only created more problems to try and come to terms with these homicidal maniacs. I know your heart is in the right place, but Puerto Rico has millions of nice people and a few nuts. The Gaza Strip and The “ West Bank” are not Puerto Rico.
Remember masada
The end of 'The Two State' plan does NOT imply 'The One State' plan. For the West Bank and Gazan Territories for Palestinians will not become Israel, nor will the Palestinians there be Israelis. But they can have self-administration where this does not threaten Israel's security. Remember, Israel's Martial Law in West Bank and Gaza prevents Hamas putting their Genocidal plan against The Jewish People (Hamas is monitored in Alliance with The Re-Formed Nazi Party here in Europe) into action, and therefore under International Law Martial Law and The Occupation is Legal.
How do you deal with West Bank / Gaza security risks for Israel when leaving WB / G Palestinian ?
A simple relocation to Jordan would have cost less than all of the funding since 1948 to the Palestinian Authority, UNRWA, etc…..
That’s the entire population.
Again, ok by me.
But what to do about international response ?
Fuck em ?
Fukem
Relocate them to Fuk M Mall
any such scheme will be called "apartheid " " by the "Palestinians" I've written and posted on line the Iraq model....the Kurds are not the darlings of the left so they don't get a state....they have a virtual state within Iraq. Let the West BAnk and Gaza accept status as an autonomous overseas territory of Ireland. Or possiby a suitable arrangement with Jordan ..."east palestine" They'll have their seat at the UN...continue to slam Israel in the world's court....have a flag on the pole at Rock Center....and an Olympic team. They'll have plenty of Palestine arts festivals and movie festivals and theater around the US and Britain the way they have now. Because the poor Tibetans and the poor Kurds and the poor Sudanese....welll Susan sarandon simply does n' give a crap about them.
OMG I LOVE THIS! I've been wondering how this can possibly work and this is the first time I'm hearing about a real solution. Thank you!
😂😂
Puerto Ricans are US citizens. They can’t vote in National elections but they are citizens. Your article says that they aren’t.
I actually wrote my last two Substack posts on this very topic, and then re-wrote the second part after reading another post from Nachum Kaplan. I'm not as polished as Mr. Kaplan but if anyone would like to give it a read and see what they think here is the link to Part II. There is a link in that entry to Part I.
https://chrisgrenda.substack.com/p/how-to-solve-the-arab-israeli-problem-f3b
Dear Kelli…. In some far-flung universe maybe, but not in that is inhabited by Palestinians who have indoctrinated with a burn in no hatred of Jews.
Due to the fact that too many are fixated on a two state solution and are too ignorant to realize that a two state solution cannot happen when one side wants to destroy the other, lets okay a two state solution but in terms of a long term plan with the end goal of two states. No one says two states should happen overnight. How long was that ridiculous Iran deal? Wasn't it 15-20 years long with stages? Do the same thing with the 2 state solution. There are stages to be reached and requirements to be accomplished. What are the requirements? We can start with the eradication of Hamas, then a newly elected democratic authority that offers checks and balances and elections every number of years, a complete overhaul of the educational system where hate is not taught and true history is of Jews and Israel, no more terrorism attacks and the list goes on and on.
At the end of the process, and if all requirements are met, we can now have a two state solution.
Bottom line: we use the two state solution to actually give us what we need to see real change in Palestinian society. We have been attacked for 75 years, the two state solution can wait for 20-30 years or more. We can call it the Palestinian Deal . papa j
Yes, it is a great idea , one state solution, Israel , and the Palestinians as residents, with all the benefits of citizenship......but about the hate they have against us, they teach their children to hate us and to kill us ...that is going to change all of the sudden?.....
It won't change "all of a sudden". It would take some time. But steps must be taken to change it, and simply killing Hamasniks goes in the opposite direction (though it might be necessary as a first step, since most Hamasniks are immune to changing their hatred through other means besides death). How about importing Sufis into Gaza and West Bank and putting them in charge of the educational system? They are peaceful muslims and could possibly change young hearts and minds.
There can never be a two state solution in Israel. It would result in all out war! The idiots that suggest this live in cloud ignoramus land! Something that makes them feel meaningful!
Talk about the ignoramus Keir Starmer! He sees himself as a dictator! In the 40 years that I have been following politics in Britain , I have never seen such vitriol and hate directed at a politician ever before. It is astonishing. This man will never survive a second term. We will remove him! Just have to fight him in the mean time!