External parties can dream about "Palestine" until they go blue in the face, but the reality is that Palestinians have zero capability to self-govern, no less zero desire to live in peace with Israel.
Absolutely so. Excellent fact and true, Liora. They had their own self government. And They voted for Hamas, and then went ahead with the 07/10 Massacre.
Good summary, MsTauber. Don’t worry too much about Macron. He has just let his mask slip to reveal the Jew-baiter he always was. Macron can’t even stop the migrant invasion now facing The UK, thus proving he is just another bullshitting French Diplomat. European History is full of them. Am YIsrael Chai.
Dena is unfortunately 100% right. There can no recognition of a Palestinian state until Palestinian society changes drastically and they have new and better leaders who actually represent their people. President Macron doesn’t have the faintest notion what he’s talking about. The recognition of a Palestinian state won’t lead to peace. Rather it is Palestinian recognition of a Jewish state that will do so. The Palestinians must have leaders who care about them and have their best interests at heart and are willing to live in peace next to their Jewish neighbors. Until that time, no Palestinian state can exist. Dena is sadly correct, it’s not because the Palestinians don’t have a state that October 7th happened by precisely because they do. They were given Gaza which they could’ve built into the next Abi Dubai or Singapore. Instead, a plurality of Gazans elected Hamas who proceeded to steal humanitarian aid at an astonishing rate, cancel all future elections, violently seize power, and fire rockets at Israel day and night.
On October 7th, Hamas, Islamic Jihad and civilian collaborators broke through the Iron Wall and invaded Israel. What they did next will go down in the annals of history as some of the worst atrocities the world has ever seen. Hamas and their allies burned Kibbutzims to the ground, they beheaded babies, raped young women and stuck sharp objects into their vaginas to torture them, sprayed playgrounds with bullets, hacked elderly grandmas to death, murdered foreign workers, kidnapped hundreds of innocent people to Gaza, shot dogs in the head for the h*** of it, molested small children, and did bloody pogroms against Jews like it was 1938. They then filmed all this put it online for the world to see because they were so proud of it. Those are the people you want to give a state?
You want to give the demons in human form in Hamas a state? So they can continue to use child labor to build their tunnels, treat women as chattel, execute gay people, kidnap black Africans and sell them as slaves, run a mini version of Rhodesia, ban Jews from being citizens, jail, torture and execute dissenters and journalists, steal billions in humanitarian aid, fire rockets at Israel, and commit terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians? You know Hamas are horrible to their own people right? You know they brutally repress them whenever they try to protest their lot right? You know they three members of the Palestinian Authority off rooftops and tied them to the backs of motorcycles and dragged them through the streets right? Talk to Hamza Howidy and Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib about this if you don’t believe me. Those guys are native Gazans who were born in the strip.
Fatah? Their a bunch of crooks who do pay for slay. So their not really an option either. All this is why the Sheiks of Hebron reached out to Israel because they finally figured out after all these years that Fatah doesn’t care about them and a Palestinian state isn’t coming anytime soon. They know they can’t trust the Palestinian government to look out for their people’s best interest. They took Gaza and destroyed it. This is a microcosm of what they’d do with their own state. France doesn’t seem to understand that recognizing the nonexistent Palestinian state helps nobody and accomplishes nothing. Your just emboldening Fatah and Hamas. Your rewarding terrorism and mass murder essentially. Your not helping the Palestinian people at all. Emmanuel Macron is a moron. If you want the modern day Nazis to run the Palestinian Territories that’s on you. But I think most of us would agree that’s not the way to go. That’s not going to help achieve peace in the Middle East.
So true! This can’t happen, it’s total madness. Macron is agreeing with this because he is held to ransom by the huge number of Islamists in his country!
This morning I read a post in French on Instagram where a French MP with an Arab name said that the whole point of recognizing a Palestinian state is to encourage Aliyah from France. I'll be damned if I can find that post again but I thought it was interesting. Making France *judenrein* so you can replace the Jews with Muslims. Now how are they going to get rid of the Christians?
'The They' have attacked or burned about 200 churches in France. This is just plain old jihad methodically working to weaken the West. So simply done by using of the West's own 'democracies' values against the West (i.e. those not officially yet part of the caliphate).
"The sole purpose of recognizing a Palestinian state is to undermine Israel’s sovereignty and exclude Israel from the conversation. It is the height of disrespect."
Sorry, but it is not a question of respect. Politics and cultural bias are at play here. The sole purpose of recognizing a Palestinian state knowing beforehand that it will be a terrorist state attempting to fulfill its charter manifesto of obliterating Israel and annihilating its population is to prepare the way for such a purging of the Land.
"Countries recognizing a Palestinian pseudo-state are essentially saying that the murder, rapes, and kidnappings of civilians perpetrated by Palestinians on October 7th can be effective tools of self-determination."
Actually, they are saying that if Israel were to no longer exist, there would be peace on earth and good will towards all men.
"In 1967, after a consortium of Arab countries started and lost their third war of attempted annihilation against Israel, the Sinai Peninsula, the Golan Heights, the Gaza Strip, Judea and Samaria, and the Old City of Jerusalem all came under Israeli control."
Not control so much, which implies foreign occupation by force. Only the Sinai was a military conquest. All the other territory was a returning to its rightful owners of sovereign Israeli territory from its captors who seized it illegally by war in '48 .
UN Security Council Resolution 242 "respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force.'
The only involved states existing in the area were Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, and Israel. That's it. No so-called Palestinian State. As according to International Law of Uti possidetis juris cited by Kontorovich, Judea, Samaria, Jerusalem, and Gaza all were integral parts of Jewish sovereign territory.
"Recognizing a Palestinian state at this juncture permits the Palestinians to make an end run around Resolution 242 by compelling Israeli withdrawal from parts of the Palestinian Territories '
One frequently hears from the media and politicians this phrase, "Palestinian Territories." Who gave the Judean, Samarian, and Gazan Arabs these territories? Where did these Arabs get these territories? From law? History? From foreign governments? Is it the right of these governments and the UN to give away the land of a country not theirs to someone else?
"A state cannot be recognized into existence. Only after the building blocks of a state are coalesced into a coherent system of government within a defined territory can other polities recognize it as such . . . "
One would think. But rather than applying established law and legal procedures to the issue, governments and the UN are rewriting law to fit the situation. Reminds one of. the kangaroo courts of the wild west. Such are the times we live in.
"Truth be told, civil war between rival factions wanting to rule a Palestinian state is probable, if not inevitable."
Mosab Hassan Yousef, the son of one of Hamas’ founders, was not whistling dixie. All the parties trying to eliminate Israel would be at each other's throats if Israel were expunged. You think there is bloodshed now? All the deaths on both sides since '48 would pale in comparison, but given the world's reaction to the atrocities of Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Sudan, Somalia, what we would hear is deafening silence because when it comes to Arab on Arab slaughter, the world's reaction is that it is an internal matter. Let Jews be somehow involved and now it becomes War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity of the first magnitude demanding outrage by all moral peoples and immediate punishment.
Lastly, "Recognizing a Palestinian state without any commitment from the Palestinians to refrain from terrorism, let alone to accept Israel’s existence, is but one step in achieving the Palestinian’s true aspirations as repeatedly stated by every Palestinian leader and the Palestinian people themselves.
It is the destruction of Israel."
What makes people who operate on evidence based critical thinking ever come to the conclusion that any Palestinian state would refrain from terrorism. Oh, I forgot. Governments and the media said of Hitler before he became Reich Chancellor, and about the supremacist ideology he openly spouted, that once he was in power, he would become a pragmatic moderate. That turned out well.
These godless barbaric animals don't want a Palestinian state they don't know how to govern a people they don't have any idea who will lead the people into rebuilding Gaza the only thing that they're good is to kill destroy to steal and commit genocide against the Israeli people
How many times do we have to say this? My own take is it is no longer worth repeating. The answer lies in Israeli conquest of Gaza, Judea and Samaria, the declaration of Israeli sovereignty therein, and the lockdown of the "Palestinians" pending their departure for parts abroad. Macron is pathetic.
I have spoken a lot with supporters of the "two-state solution".
First, none of them could justify their desire to create a Palestinian state. Like Macron, in his speech they limit themselves to the words "This will be right", "This will be fair". Previously, they also added "This will bring peace", but for many years they have not added this, apparently realizing that this is the weakest link in their argumentation.
Let's see what they consider "right and fair".
They consider "right and fair" to be a gift (precisely a gift. There is no talk of any creation. This is a gift, the same as the allies did to the Arabs after their victory in WWI, giving them states that did not include their native territories and were inhabited by other peoples) a state to a people who are not a single people, but consist of a mixture of clans, ethnic groups, religious, national, criminal and terrorist groups, each of which has its own goals, desires and ideas about statehood. Calling them "Palestinians" does not make them a single people with common aspirations, interests, history and culture.
They consider it "right and fair" to create a twenty-third Arab state to the detriment of the only Jewish state, without ensuring that this state will not be hostile to the Jewish state. In fact, we know that it will be hostile, because it is constantly declared, hostility is demonstrated and the cult of violence and hatred towards Jews has never been condemned, but on the contrary, has been encouraged and will be encouraged. Not a single supporter of a Palestinian state has presented any mechanisms against the cult of hatred, violence, open hostility, attempts to kill Jews and the practice of encouraging murder.
They consider it "right and fair" to create a state that is undemocratic, authoritarian, without any program for free development, a free (or at least independent of external donors) economy, without a change of power, civil society, civil liberties, gender, national and racial equality. The model of this state has existed for thirty years. This is the Palestinian Authority, which is mired in corruption, does not care about its citizens, does not develop infrastructure and economy, although all the conditions for this are there.
They consider it "right and fair" to create an "ethnically pure" state, which is going to expel the Jews from the territory called Judea, on the basis that they call the indigenous people of Judea (I explain the analogy: Sweden - Swedes, Germany - Germans, Ukraine - Ukrainians, Judea - who?) "settlers", and the settlers who came from other countries "indigenous residents".
They consider it "right and fair" to create an Arab state that is under strong extreme Islamist influence of the main terrorist organizations and states, in which there are absolutely no mechanisms to counter internal contradictions, external expansion and the creation of a puppet regime, which will always be a battlefield between Iran and the Arab states. I specifically did not consider that this "decision" contradicts all international norms and ignores the sovereignty and security of Israel.
Only from the point of view of "right and fair".
Am I the only one who thinks that Macron has some strange vision of right and fair?
That's also my bottom-line problem with the Palestinian State fiction. It's buck-naked emperors all the way down, issuing calls for fish to be gifted with formal wear.
The US had better, but no more committed, plans than this for Afghanistan (because we'll convene a LOYA JIRGA, you see, which is a form of representative democracy and evidence of a national aptitude for that sort of thing) and a post-Saddam Iraq (because NATION BUILDING, sorta, but then we got tired).
It didn't go so well. And those were actual, previously existing countries. What is Mr. Macron prepared to *do* to make it all work out this time? Why will a Palestinian state be preferable to the miserable status quo?
This is all true, and yet, there is no alternative that doesn’t involve war crimes or apartheid. A demilitarized state within the 1967 borders will have to be accepted by both parties and there’s no harm in recognizing it.
All land owned by Jews prior to 1947 was purchased legally, often from absentee Arab/Turkish landlords, and often at exorbitant prices.
The Arabs of Palestine lost a war of extermination they started - twice - and in the process lost land each time.
That’s called natural consequences.
This intractable conflict is wholly due to 100 years of Palestinian intransigence, absolute commitment to violence, inability to compromise and refusal to accept the legitimate Jewish indigenous ties to the land.
I agree with you and yet it is not permissible to either ethnically cleanse Arabs from the West Bank or to have them as unequal citizens. It’s morally wrong, it’s destructive, and it will lead to international isolation and sanctions.
“His Majesty’s Government have thus been faced with an irreconcilable conflict of principles … For the Jews the essential point of principle is the creation of a sovereign Jewish State. For the Arabs, the essential point of principle is to resist to the last the establishment of Jewish sovereignty in any part of Palestine”
Quote by British Foreign Minister Ernest Bevin in February 1947 in a speech to the British Parliament explaining why Britain can no longer carry out the mandate with which it was entrusted by the League of Nations and thus sending it back to the United Nation.
Note the date - February 1947: there is no Israel, no refugees, no occupation, no settlements, no blockade - none of the ‘understandable causes’ for Palestinian violence that even the UN Secretary General has fallen for.
And yet, already in February 1947 it is crystal clear why the conflict is already “irreconcilable”: as a matter of top priority, “the essential point of principle”, the Jews want a state whereas as a matter of top priority the Arabs of the land (later known as Palestinians) seek “to resist to the last the establishment of Jewish sovereignty *in any part* of Palestine”.
That’s the conflict. The Jews want a state in even a part of the land. The Palestinians want the Jews not to have a state in any part of the land. That’s “Free Palestine”. That’s “From the River to the Sea”. It’s an idea that guarantees that generation after generation trained murderers will rise under different names: Fatah, DFLP, Hamas, Jihad, to “Liberate Palestine”.
If we are ever to have peace, this idea must change. Palestinians must develop a constructive vision of living next to a Jewish state rather than the century long destructive vision of living instead of it.
You are now doing what Israel's enemies are doing. You are calling necessary defense "ethnic cleansing" and "apartheid." All of Israel's actions are forced, provoked by the actions of the Arabs, and do not go beyond what another state would do for defense. I have not forgotten one more circumstance. There is what Israel is doing in accordance with the international Oslo agreement, but it is obliged to do this precisely in accordance with this agreement, signed with the Palestinian Authority.
How is backing messianic hilltop youth in Area C forced by the actions of the Arabs? It's a liability. Keep the military there if you want, but the settlers are a moral and security disaster. But it's clearly not worth engaging you all, I hope you enjoy your Free Press subscription while Israel turns into a pariah state. I'll be supproting Yair Golan in the next election.
Yes, the alternative solution is to establish the Kingdom of Yahveh Elohim of Yisrael and Yahshua His only begotten Son, and to expell every non Jewish citizen (& none heir, but uninvited inhabitant)!
The Israeli Arabs are equal citizens in Israel. You would do the same if you were an Englishman faced with becoming a minority in the UK to a fast breeding Muslim population. Welcome to the real world SM. Once the West Bank and Gaza Arabs recognise Israel, they will get self Government but not in the Knesset.
I would do the same what? Israelis need to civilly separate from the Arabs for the exactly reason you say. I have to say that the foresight of the Zionist right is just atrocious.
‘Atrocious’. No. The real world SM. As I say, The Israeli Arabs have full and equal rights, and are happy with this, within the 67 Borders. When Gaza and The West Bank are annexed to prevent more Genocidal attacks on The Jewish People, Rights but no votes in the Knesset will be the settlement. The Swiss model of Cantons worked well and stopped terrible civil strife In Switzerland in the last century.
The Swiss Cantons, together, have ultimate sovereignty. The model you’re proposing is Bantustans, as were used in South Africa. It won’t work, wont assured peace, and is immoral. You need to get real, not me.
Great article. “Palestinian territories?” “Disputed territories” is the accurate term. How did Judea and Samaria—the heartland of Jewish civilization—come to be known as “Palestinian territory?”
The only constant in Gaza is making killing Jews the centerpiece of everything their so-called "government" pursues. Part of the regional problem is that all the Arabs despite the Abraham Accords and Iran would rather see Israel gone no matter what is said publicly.
“October 7th didn’t happen because Palestinians were denied a state—it happened BECAUSE they were given one.
Gaza was theirs. No occupation. No settlers. No Jews at all. Just them, ruling themselves.
And what did they do?
They began preparing for war. Never forget that.”
Credit: Jews Fight Back
Absolutely so. Excellent fact and true, Liora. They had their own self government. And They voted for Hamas, and then went ahead with the 07/10 Massacre.
Good summary, MsTauber. Don’t worry too much about Macron. He has just let his mask slip to reveal the Jew-baiter he always was. Macron can’t even stop the migrant invasion now facing The UK, thus proving he is just another bullshitting French Diplomat. European History is full of them. Am YIsrael Chai.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/gQGyYi4yMM0
Dena is unfortunately 100% right. There can no recognition of a Palestinian state until Palestinian society changes drastically and they have new and better leaders who actually represent their people. President Macron doesn’t have the faintest notion what he’s talking about. The recognition of a Palestinian state won’t lead to peace. Rather it is Palestinian recognition of a Jewish state that will do so. The Palestinians must have leaders who care about them and have their best interests at heart and are willing to live in peace next to their Jewish neighbors. Until that time, no Palestinian state can exist. Dena is sadly correct, it’s not because the Palestinians don’t have a state that October 7th happened by precisely because they do. They were given Gaza which they could’ve built into the next Abi Dubai or Singapore. Instead, a plurality of Gazans elected Hamas who proceeded to steal humanitarian aid at an astonishing rate, cancel all future elections, violently seize power, and fire rockets at Israel day and night.
On October 7th, Hamas, Islamic Jihad and civilian collaborators broke through the Iron Wall and invaded Israel. What they did next will go down in the annals of history as some of the worst atrocities the world has ever seen. Hamas and their allies burned Kibbutzims to the ground, they beheaded babies, raped young women and stuck sharp objects into their vaginas to torture them, sprayed playgrounds with bullets, hacked elderly grandmas to death, murdered foreign workers, kidnapped hundreds of innocent people to Gaza, shot dogs in the head for the h*** of it, molested small children, and did bloody pogroms against Jews like it was 1938. They then filmed all this put it online for the world to see because they were so proud of it. Those are the people you want to give a state?
You want to give the demons in human form in Hamas a state? So they can continue to use child labor to build their tunnels, treat women as chattel, execute gay people, kidnap black Africans and sell them as slaves, run a mini version of Rhodesia, ban Jews from being citizens, jail, torture and execute dissenters and journalists, steal billions in humanitarian aid, fire rockets at Israel, and commit terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians? You know Hamas are horrible to their own people right? You know they brutally repress them whenever they try to protest their lot right? You know they three members of the Palestinian Authority off rooftops and tied them to the backs of motorcycles and dragged them through the streets right? Talk to Hamza Howidy and Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib about this if you don’t believe me. Those guys are native Gazans who were born in the strip.
Fatah? Their a bunch of crooks who do pay for slay. So their not really an option either. All this is why the Sheiks of Hebron reached out to Israel because they finally figured out after all these years that Fatah doesn’t care about them and a Palestinian state isn’t coming anytime soon. They know they can’t trust the Palestinian government to look out for their people’s best interest. They took Gaza and destroyed it. This is a microcosm of what they’d do with their own state. France doesn’t seem to understand that recognizing the nonexistent Palestinian state helps nobody and accomplishes nothing. Your just emboldening Fatah and Hamas. Your rewarding terrorism and mass murder essentially. Your not helping the Palestinian people at all. Emmanuel Macron is a moron. If you want the modern day Nazis to run the Palestinian Territories that’s on you. But I think most of us would agree that’s not the way to go. That’s not going to help achieve peace in the Middle East.
!!!You said what needs to be said!!!
So true! This can’t happen, it’s total madness. Macron is agreeing with this because he is held to ransom by the huge number of Islamists in his country!
I suspect you are right
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/gQGyYi4yMM0
This morning I read a post in French on Instagram where a French MP with an Arab name said that the whole point of recognizing a Palestinian state is to encourage Aliyah from France. I'll be damned if I can find that post again but I thought it was interesting. Making France *judenrein* so you can replace the Jews with Muslims. Now how are they going to get rid of the Christians?
'The They' have attacked or burned about 200 churches in France. This is just plain old jihad methodically working to weaken the West. So simply done by using of the West's own 'democracies' values against the West (i.e. those not officially yet part of the caliphate).
Same way as they did, the last time, ie when they guillotined them and put them in the stocks and murdered the true Christian believers, to death!
"The sole purpose of recognizing a Palestinian state is to undermine Israel’s sovereignty and exclude Israel from the conversation. It is the height of disrespect."
Sorry, but it is not a question of respect. Politics and cultural bias are at play here. The sole purpose of recognizing a Palestinian state knowing beforehand that it will be a terrorist state attempting to fulfill its charter manifesto of obliterating Israel and annihilating its population is to prepare the way for such a purging of the Land.
"Countries recognizing a Palestinian pseudo-state are essentially saying that the murder, rapes, and kidnappings of civilians perpetrated by Palestinians on October 7th can be effective tools of self-determination."
Actually, they are saying that if Israel were to no longer exist, there would be peace on earth and good will towards all men.
"In 1967, after a consortium of Arab countries started and lost their third war of attempted annihilation against Israel, the Sinai Peninsula, the Golan Heights, the Gaza Strip, Judea and Samaria, and the Old City of Jerusalem all came under Israeli control."
Not control so much, which implies foreign occupation by force. Only the Sinai was a military conquest. All the other territory was a returning to its rightful owners of sovereign Israeli territory from its captors who seized it illegally by war in '48 .
UN Security Council Resolution 242 "respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force.'
The only involved states existing in the area were Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, and Israel. That's it. No so-called Palestinian State. As according to International Law of Uti possidetis juris cited by Kontorovich, Judea, Samaria, Jerusalem, and Gaza all were integral parts of Jewish sovereign territory.
"Recognizing a Palestinian state at this juncture permits the Palestinians to make an end run around Resolution 242 by compelling Israeli withdrawal from parts of the Palestinian Territories '
One frequently hears from the media and politicians this phrase, "Palestinian Territories." Who gave the Judean, Samarian, and Gazan Arabs these territories? Where did these Arabs get these territories? From law? History? From foreign governments? Is it the right of these governments and the UN to give away the land of a country not theirs to someone else?
"A state cannot be recognized into existence. Only after the building blocks of a state are coalesced into a coherent system of government within a defined territory can other polities recognize it as such . . . "
One would think. But rather than applying established law and legal procedures to the issue, governments and the UN are rewriting law to fit the situation. Reminds one of. the kangaroo courts of the wild west. Such are the times we live in.
"Truth be told, civil war between rival factions wanting to rule a Palestinian state is probable, if not inevitable."
Mosab Hassan Yousef, the son of one of Hamas’ founders, was not whistling dixie. All the parties trying to eliminate Israel would be at each other's throats if Israel were expunged. You think there is bloodshed now? All the deaths on both sides since '48 would pale in comparison, but given the world's reaction to the atrocities of Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Sudan, Somalia, what we would hear is deafening silence because when it comes to Arab on Arab slaughter, the world's reaction is that it is an internal matter. Let Jews be somehow involved and now it becomes War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity of the first magnitude demanding outrage by all moral peoples and immediate punishment.
Lastly, "Recognizing a Palestinian state without any commitment from the Palestinians to refrain from terrorism, let alone to accept Israel’s existence, is but one step in achieving the Palestinian’s true aspirations as repeatedly stated by every Palestinian leader and the Palestinian people themselves.
It is the destruction of Israel."
What makes people who operate on evidence based critical thinking ever come to the conclusion that any Palestinian state would refrain from terrorism. Oh, I forgot. Governments and the media said of Hitler before he became Reich Chancellor, and about the supremacist ideology he openly spouted, that once he was in power, he would become a pragmatic moderate. That turned out well.
These godless barbaric animals don't want a Palestinian state they don't know how to govern a people they don't have any idea who will lead the people into rebuilding Gaza the only thing that they're good is to kill destroy to steal and commit genocide against the Israeli people
How many times do we have to say this? My own take is it is no longer worth repeating. The answer lies in Israeli conquest of Gaza, Judea and Samaria, the declaration of Israeli sovereignty therein, and the lockdown of the "Palestinians" pending their departure for parts abroad. Macron is pathetic.
This is a monstrous and immoral proposal.
Suicide is worse. You hold on to your good sentiments.
Precisely 🔥🔥🔥
This essay is brilliant.
Thank you!
Excellent article.
Mike Huckabee said it best. France will be Franc en Stine. I completely agree with this!!!
I have spoken a lot with supporters of the "two-state solution".
First, none of them could justify their desire to create a Palestinian state. Like Macron, in his speech they limit themselves to the words "This will be right", "This will be fair". Previously, they also added "This will bring peace", but for many years they have not added this, apparently realizing that this is the weakest link in their argumentation.
Let's see what they consider "right and fair".
They consider "right and fair" to be a gift (precisely a gift. There is no talk of any creation. This is a gift, the same as the allies did to the Arabs after their victory in WWI, giving them states that did not include their native territories and were inhabited by other peoples) a state to a people who are not a single people, but consist of a mixture of clans, ethnic groups, religious, national, criminal and terrorist groups, each of which has its own goals, desires and ideas about statehood. Calling them "Palestinians" does not make them a single people with common aspirations, interests, history and culture.
They consider it "right and fair" to create a twenty-third Arab state to the detriment of the only Jewish state, without ensuring that this state will not be hostile to the Jewish state. In fact, we know that it will be hostile, because it is constantly declared, hostility is demonstrated and the cult of violence and hatred towards Jews has never been condemned, but on the contrary, has been encouraged and will be encouraged. Not a single supporter of a Palestinian state has presented any mechanisms against the cult of hatred, violence, open hostility, attempts to kill Jews and the practice of encouraging murder.
They consider it "right and fair" to create a state that is undemocratic, authoritarian, without any program for free development, a free (or at least independent of external donors) economy, without a change of power, civil society, civil liberties, gender, national and racial equality. The model of this state has existed for thirty years. This is the Palestinian Authority, which is mired in corruption, does not care about its citizens, does not develop infrastructure and economy, although all the conditions for this are there.
They consider it "right and fair" to create an "ethnically pure" state, which is going to expel the Jews from the territory called Judea, on the basis that they call the indigenous people of Judea (I explain the analogy: Sweden - Swedes, Germany - Germans, Ukraine - Ukrainians, Judea - who?) "settlers", and the settlers who came from other countries "indigenous residents".
They consider it "right and fair" to create an Arab state that is under strong extreme Islamist influence of the main terrorist organizations and states, in which there are absolutely no mechanisms to counter internal contradictions, external expansion and the creation of a puppet regime, which will always be a battlefield between Iran and the Arab states. I specifically did not consider that this "decision" contradicts all international norms and ignores the sovereignty and security of Israel.
Only from the point of view of "right and fair".
Am I the only one who thinks that Macron has some strange vision of right and fair?
That's also my bottom-line problem with the Palestinian State fiction. It's buck-naked emperors all the way down, issuing calls for fish to be gifted with formal wear.
The US had better, but no more committed, plans than this for Afghanistan (because we'll convene a LOYA JIRGA, you see, which is a form of representative democracy and evidence of a national aptitude for that sort of thing) and a post-Saddam Iraq (because NATION BUILDING, sorta, but then we got tired).
It didn't go so well. And those were actual, previously existing countries. What is Mr. Macron prepared to *do* to make it all work out this time? Why will a Palestinian state be preferable to the miserable status quo?
This is all true, and yet, there is no alternative that doesn’t involve war crimes or apartheid. A demilitarized state within the 1967 borders will have to be accepted by both parties and there’s no harm in recognizing it.
All land owned by Jews prior to 1947 was purchased legally, often from absentee Arab/Turkish landlords, and often at exorbitant prices.
The Arabs of Palestine lost a war of extermination they started - twice - and in the process lost land each time.
That’s called natural consequences.
This intractable conflict is wholly due to 100 years of Palestinian intransigence, absolute commitment to violence, inability to compromise and refusal to accept the legitimate Jewish indigenous ties to the land.
I agree with you and yet it is not permissible to either ethnically cleanse Arabs from the West Bank or to have them as unequal citizens. It’s morally wrong, it’s destructive, and it will lead to international isolation and sanctions.
Einat Wilf:
“His Majesty’s Government have thus been faced with an irreconcilable conflict of principles … For the Jews the essential point of principle is the creation of a sovereign Jewish State. For the Arabs, the essential point of principle is to resist to the last the establishment of Jewish sovereignty in any part of Palestine”
Quote by British Foreign Minister Ernest Bevin in February 1947 in a speech to the British Parliament explaining why Britain can no longer carry out the mandate with which it was entrusted by the League of Nations and thus sending it back to the United Nation.
Note the date - February 1947: there is no Israel, no refugees, no occupation, no settlements, no blockade - none of the ‘understandable causes’ for Palestinian violence that even the UN Secretary General has fallen for.
And yet, already in February 1947 it is crystal clear why the conflict is already “irreconcilable”: as a matter of top priority, “the essential point of principle”, the Jews want a state whereas as a matter of top priority the Arabs of the land (later known as Palestinians) seek “to resist to the last the establishment of Jewish sovereignty *in any part* of Palestine”.
That’s the conflict. The Jews want a state in even a part of the land. The Palestinians want the Jews not to have a state in any part of the land. That’s “Free Palestine”. That’s “From the River to the Sea”. It’s an idea that guarantees that generation after generation trained murderers will rise under different names: Fatah, DFLP, Hamas, Jihad, to “Liberate Palestine”.
If we are ever to have peace, this idea must change. Palestinians must develop a constructive vision of living next to a Jewish state rather than the century long destructive vision of living instead of it.
Again, you are suggesting either ethnic cleaning or apartheid. We must preserve the Zionist dream. Or do you have another suggestion?
Golda Meir says it best:
“If we have to have a choice between being dead and pitied, and being alive with a bad image, we’d rather be alive and have the bad image.”
“Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.”
You can keep giving me quotes but that’s not answering my question. Btw radical leftist Ehud Olmert also shares my view.
You are now doing what Israel's enemies are doing. You are calling necessary defense "ethnic cleansing" and "apartheid." All of Israel's actions are forced, provoked by the actions of the Arabs, and do not go beyond what another state would do for defense. I have not forgotten one more circumstance. There is what Israel is doing in accordance with the international Oslo agreement, but it is obliged to do this precisely in accordance with this agreement, signed with the Palestinian Authority.
How is backing messianic hilltop youth in Area C forced by the actions of the Arabs? It's a liability. Keep the military there if you want, but the settlers are a moral and security disaster. But it's clearly not worth engaging you all, I hope you enjoy your Free Press subscription while Israel turns into a pariah state. I'll be supproting Yair Golan in the next election.
Yes, the alternative solution is to establish the Kingdom of Yahveh Elohim of Yisrael and Yahshua His only begotten Son, and to expell every non Jewish citizen (& none heir, but uninvited inhabitant)!
Monstrous, Nazi like.
The Israeli Arabs are equal citizens in Israel. You would do the same if you were an Englishman faced with becoming a minority in the UK to a fast breeding Muslim population. Welcome to the real world SM. Once the West Bank and Gaza Arabs recognise Israel, they will get self Government but not in the Knesset.
I would do the same what? Israelis need to civilly separate from the Arabs for the exactly reason you say. I have to say that the foresight of the Zionist right is just atrocious.
‘Atrocious’. No. The real world SM. As I say, The Israeli Arabs have full and equal rights, and are happy with this, within the 67 Borders. When Gaza and The West Bank are annexed to prevent more Genocidal attacks on The Jewish People, Rights but no votes in the Knesset will be the settlement. The Swiss model of Cantons worked well and stopped terrible civil strife In Switzerland in the last century.
The Swiss Cantons, together, have ultimate sovereignty. The model you’re proposing is Bantustans, as were used in South Africa. It won’t work, wont assured peace, and is immoral. You need to get real, not me.
Great article. “Palestinian territories?” “Disputed territories” is the accurate term. How did Judea and Samaria—the heartland of Jewish civilization—come to be known as “Palestinian territory?”
The only constant in Gaza is making killing Jews the centerpiece of everything their so-called "government" pursues. Part of the regional problem is that all the Arabs despite the Abraham Accords and Iran would rather see Israel gone no matter what is said publicly.