By amplifying selective narratives, the Vatican is distorting the realities of war and reinforcing dangerous biases that undermine efforts toward genuine peace.
@Joshua Hoffman- Thank you! The damage this Pope is doing completely undermines the wonderful work of Pope John Paul the Second. Pope Francis is taking us back to the dark and horrid Jew hatred of Catholicism over two millennia. It is time for Pope Francis to go. Soon. Very soon. Am YIsrael Chai
It’s a great pity that you choose to distract from the power of this just but balanced reproach to the Pope. This is not about your Church politics or mine.
Joan Seymour: Sorry, you miss the point. This Pope is creating more dissent, more chaos, more discrimination by his one sided support for the Gazans. Where is his support for the Hostages, from many countries who were stolen out of Israel? Where is his support for those who were ruthlessly butchered by the Gazans? He receives his prejudiced propaganda from the few remaining Catholics in Bethlehem. Do you honestly believe that those Catholics can speak freely about what is truly happening? If so, I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. Please- get educated about what is really happening.
Viv, you’re missing my point. Like you, I’m horrified by this particular statement from Pope Francis. I’m amazed by the civil and rational tone of Joshua’s reproach. But can’t we leave our own Catholic division out of it? I think Pope John Paul 11 would be horrified himself to be used as a figurehead in a divided Church. Unity must be our aim. Apart from anything else, the world can be further divided on Israel if a divided Catholic Church makes the issue of Israel a matter of whether it lines up with a conservative view or a ‘progressive’ one. It could be different. If we all saw the truth of what is happening to Israel, we could become closer to each other, too.
I did two backflips for him just a few meters from his pope mobile. 1986. Sydney. Taylor Square. He beamed a smile and waved directly to me. He was a mensch which is why I went to see him.
Not even slightly true. His two predecessors were great friends to Israel and the Jewish people. This Pope has the standard attitude of the Marxist dumbass.
I think it’s the necessity for him to delegate his research to others, and to trust their subsequent opinions. He definitely chose people who had an ( at best) unconscious bias against Jews. A life-long Catholic, I’m bitterly disappointed that he’s going with the far-left flow, but I don’t think it’s antisemitism on his part. Fiat justitia!
You’re wrong. Many of us listen to him with respect and, indeed, joy. That’s why his unjust criticisms of Israel are so shocking to the Church. Perhaps he’s been so wounded by the Church’s duplicitous far-right that he’s assuming the far left is the opposite. It is not. The office of the Pope is still too important for him to make this mistake unchallenged.
My letter would have been less professional and far less articulate … something along the lines of “what a load of ahistorical crap …” but I applaud you for your civility! 👏👏👏
The Catholic Church learned their peacemaking skills from the Romans, make a desert,
stick your flag over it and call it peace. Hardly an unsuccessful strategy historically but now they have to pretend to care about the rights of anyone who doesn’t profess their creed, they have no idea what to do. Hence, idiotic statements. Ironically, since most Palestinian Christians have fled, there are now roughly equivalent amounts on both sides. Even from a realist rubric, supporting Palestine is a bad call.
I hope Joshua, you'll get an answer to your polite letter.......This Pope Francis, who is Argentinian, was not so great in Argentina, during political crisis.....Anyway, I dare to think, he is already done enough damage with his stupid statements.......
Great letter- horrible anti- Semitic, arrogant little man who is a NOTHING in this world except for a title put upon him. He doesn’t deserve any nice letter. Rather a week sitting in an ongoing bomb filled area in Israel so that he can get the “experience”.
Perhaps the Catholic Curch's resolute march to past attitudes to Jews is best explained by the author's observation:
"To claim Jesus as a Palestinian Arab may earn brief applause from certain quarters, but it diminishes the profound Jewish roots of Christianity itself. It brushes aside the significance of a man who lived as part of a Jewish community under Roman rule, who read the Torah, and whose teachings are steeped in Jewish tradition."
In a word, smells of too much ofJudaizing Christianity. It seems like the current pontiff would like to return to pre-Vatcan II days and annul Nostra aetate or the Declaration on the Relation of the Church with Non-Christian Religions. His political and theological strategizing might be quite astute: you can convert to Catholicism and still be an Arab, Turk, Persisn, or Egyptian, but you can't be Jewish and become Catholic or any other Christian denomination for that matter. And there are a lot more Muslim souls to fish for than Jewish ones.
Puck, you write: 'You can't be Jewish and become Catholic or any other Christian denomination for that matter.' Puck, this is incorrect. The very early Christian sects were all Jewish. Saul (Jewish) became Paul, who became St Paul. Here in the UK there are many 19th Century Victorian Jews who converted to Christianity. Latterly in the 20th Century, Bishop Hugh Montefiore is also one-such.
I think you are both right for different reasons. One can be ethnically Israelite/Hebrew and not Jewish, or at least not regard one’s self as Jewish. However, historically converts to Christianity throw off all the cultural signifiers that distinguish themselves from whatever group dominates their church. No festivals or circumcision means the only distinctions are the genes and they are difficult to discern. Now that Israel has returned, it might be possible to create a distinctive Hebrew Church.
Why would one want to create a distinctive Hebrew Church? There already exists up to 47,000 Protestant denominations. Furthermore, the Eastern and Western Rite account for a further 24 denominations. Talk about being guilty of the sin of schismatism. The only religious value would be as a means to seduce all Jews away from Judaism by converting them to Christianity. Forget how other religions evaluate Christian doctrine, given how problematic that doctrine is among Christians themselves (check out James Tabor, Bart Ehrman, Richard Dawkins to name only several) why would onlookers want to subscribe to it?
Please explain how one can be ethnically Israelite/Hebrew and not Jewish. when Jewishness is already recognized as a religio-ethnicity. Practice of the rituals and subscription to all the doctrines are not prerequisites for one to be Jewish.
You convert from Judaism to another religion. You can call them Jews till your blue in the face but it won’t change their mind. Doesn’t change your genes but does change your beliefs.
Good reply. I would never call them Jews nor would I generally argue with them because that involves logic. These people are usually ignorant of biblical text and exegesis, so engaging them in a theological debate would be largely pointless.
Stopping any discussion would be the problem that they come from utter conviction in the correctness of their rectitude and in belief, especially that dubious Pauline doctrine of Solas Fides.
We can extrapolate from these people to the so-called pro-Palestinian rabble. As their slogans reveal, their goal is not the creation of a state but the destruction of an already existing legal state (From the river to the sea) and the obliteration of its people both within its borders (Intifada Now) and outside of it (Global Jihad) which justifies all forms of violence (Resistance by any Means). They are coming from positions of belief and hatred; thus, trying to engage them in exploration of their claims is futile. Other techniques are needed to break through their wall of self-righteous hatred.
Thank you for reconfirming my point that one cannot be both Jewish and Christian at the same time. One can "switch sides," as it were, but being both simultaneously is a theological oxymoron. Of course the so-called messianic Jews completely fail to see the fundamental contradiction in their claims to be both.
Luckily the good bishop did not fall into German hands. For them, Jewishness was a "race," not something one could cast off by donning a mitre and picking up a gilded crozier.
You are wrong, in logic, Puck. Jews are not a 'single' race, (and so the Germans were wrong, unless you are saying the Germans were right) And anyone, including Jewish People, can convert to Christianity. I have just given you three examples, from which what I say follows.
Regarding "race," biologically, anthropologically, sociologically, historically, theologically, Jews are not now nor ever have been a distinct race despite political expediency as a means to single Jews out for "special treatment.".
Please note, that in my response where I said "For them [the Germans], Jewishness was a "race," not something one could cast off . . . " the text was perhaps an overly oblique reference to "Nürnberger Gesetze.". My apologies for assuming readers in general would be familiar with the Nuremberg Race Laws.
Regarding conversions, people of all religions are fence jumping into their neighbours' yards. Such is the fickle nature of human belief. I have had too many missionaries hailing the Good Word literally knocking on my door crying "Believe, believe, and you will be saved" to grant them any. credence. As they often contradict each other, none of these door-to-door peddlers of used salvation can be taken at face value. Evaluating claims using critical thinking tools, an informed knowledge of primary texts, plus some familiarity with the evolution of those texts is absolutely necessary not to be led down the garden path of theological error.
Fuck this Pope and the popemobile he rode in on! His holiness? More like ass-holliness!
Pope pius XII remained silent, knowing millions of Jews were being murdered. He traded his silence for the establishment if Vatican city. Prior ruling popes confined Jews to ghettos and prevented them from practicing professions. Popes seem to mostly lack a moral compass.
Great article. It should also be noted, that elimnation of Jews in a Jewish State, and Jews, worldwide, the doctrine of Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran wants to rid the planet of anyone who does not accept their Allah and their murderous prophet. So it will be: First they came for the Socialist, but I wasn't a socialist, and I did nothing, Then they came for the Jews, but I wasn't Jews, so I did nothing, etc., and eventually they will come for the Pope, etc., etc. I hope this letter has been sent to the Vatican, the richest church in the world.
@Joshua Hoffman- Thank you! The damage this Pope is doing completely undermines the wonderful work of Pope John Paul the Second. Pope Francis is taking us back to the dark and horrid Jew hatred of Catholicism over two millennia. It is time for Pope Francis to go. Soon. Very soon. Am YIsrael Chai
It’s a great pity that you choose to distract from the power of this just but balanced reproach to the Pope. This is not about your Church politics or mine.
Joan Seymour: Sorry, you miss the point. This Pope is creating more dissent, more chaos, more discrimination by his one sided support for the Gazans. Where is his support for the Hostages, from many countries who were stolen out of Israel? Where is his support for those who were ruthlessly butchered by the Gazans? He receives his prejudiced propaganda from the few remaining Catholics in Bethlehem. Do you honestly believe that those Catholics can speak freely about what is truly happening? If so, I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. Please- get educated about what is really happening.
Viv, you’re missing my point. Like you, I’m horrified by this particular statement from Pope Francis. I’m amazed by the civil and rational tone of Joshua’s reproach. But can’t we leave our own Catholic division out of it? I think Pope John Paul 11 would be horrified himself to be used as a figurehead in a divided Church. Unity must be our aim. Apart from anything else, the world can be further divided on Israel if a divided Catholic Church makes the issue of Israel a matter of whether it lines up with a conservative view or a ‘progressive’ one. It could be different. If we all saw the truth of what is happening to Israel, we could become closer to each other, too.
I did two backflips for him just a few meters from his pope mobile. 1986. Sydney. Taylor Square. He beamed a smile and waved directly to me. He was a mensch which is why I went to see him.
Wow, that was WAY more polite than what I would have written.
🎯
Catholic persecution of Jews, who would have thunk it
The letter is too good for him. It assumes there is something more than Jew-hating idiot occupying his position.
Excellent. There remains the question of why - whether it’s anti- semitism , his left- ism or senility ?
I don't believe that he's senile. He simply has the standard Papal attitude toward the Jewish people.
Not even slightly true. His two predecessors were great friends to Israel and the Jewish people. This Pope has the standard attitude of the Marxist dumbass.
The Pope is quite far-left.
He’s unpopular with many Catholics—the Marxist, liberation theology Pope.
That was not my perception, but then, I never studied them.
Could well be. Not disagreeing with u.
I think it’s the necessity for him to delegate his research to others, and to trust their subsequent opinions. He definitely chose people who had an ( at best) unconscious bias against Jews. A life-long Catholic, I’m bitterly disappointed that he’s going with the far-left flow, but I don’t think it’s antisemitism on his part. Fiat justitia!
All of the above
The commie Pope is a total dope and as much of a menace to world peace as any of the vipers at the United Nations.
The pope is a joke! And I'm an Irish American Catholic. No one listens to that jerk.
You’re wrong. Many of us listen to him with respect and, indeed, joy. That’s why his unjust criticisms of Israel are so shocking to the Church. Perhaps he’s been so wounded by the Church’s duplicitous far-right that he’s assuming the far left is the opposite. It is not. The office of the Pope is still too important for him to make this mistake unchallenged.
My letter would have been less professional and far less articulate … something along the lines of “what a load of ahistorical crap …” but I applaud you for your civility! 👏👏👏
The Catholic Church learned their peacemaking skills from the Romans, make a desert,
stick your flag over it and call it peace. Hardly an unsuccessful strategy historically but now they have to pretend to care about the rights of anyone who doesn’t profess their creed, they have no idea what to do. Hence, idiotic statements. Ironically, since most Palestinian Christians have fled, there are now roughly equivalent amounts on both sides. Even from a realist rubric, supporting Palestine is a bad call.
I hope Joshua, you'll get an answer to your polite letter.......This Pope Francis, who is Argentinian, was not so great in Argentina, during political crisis.....Anyway, I dare to think, he is already done enough damage with his stupid statements.......
Great letter- horrible anti- Semitic, arrogant little man who is a NOTHING in this world except for a title put upon him. He doesn’t deserve any nice letter. Rather a week sitting in an ongoing bomb filled area in Israel so that he can get the “experience”.
Perhaps the Catholic Curch's resolute march to past attitudes to Jews is best explained by the author's observation:
"To claim Jesus as a Palestinian Arab may earn brief applause from certain quarters, but it diminishes the profound Jewish roots of Christianity itself. It brushes aside the significance of a man who lived as part of a Jewish community under Roman rule, who read the Torah, and whose teachings are steeped in Jewish tradition."
In a word, smells of too much ofJudaizing Christianity. It seems like the current pontiff would like to return to pre-Vatcan II days and annul Nostra aetate or the Declaration on the Relation of the Church with Non-Christian Religions. His political and theological strategizing might be quite astute: you can convert to Catholicism and still be an Arab, Turk, Persisn, or Egyptian, but you can't be Jewish and become Catholic or any other Christian denomination for that matter. And there are a lot more Muslim souls to fish for than Jewish ones.
Puck, you write: 'You can't be Jewish and become Catholic or any other Christian denomination for that matter.' Puck, this is incorrect. The very early Christian sects were all Jewish. Saul (Jewish) became Paul, who became St Paul. Here in the UK there are many 19th Century Victorian Jews who converted to Christianity. Latterly in the 20th Century, Bishop Hugh Montefiore is also one-such.
I think you are both right for different reasons. One can be ethnically Israelite/Hebrew and not Jewish, or at least not regard one’s self as Jewish. However, historically converts to Christianity throw off all the cultural signifiers that distinguish themselves from whatever group dominates their church. No festivals or circumcision means the only distinctions are the genes and they are difficult to discern. Now that Israel has returned, it might be possible to create a distinctive Hebrew Church.
Why would one want to create a distinctive Hebrew Church? There already exists up to 47,000 Protestant denominations. Furthermore, the Eastern and Western Rite account for a further 24 denominations. Talk about being guilty of the sin of schismatism. The only religious value would be as a means to seduce all Jews away from Judaism by converting them to Christianity. Forget how other religions evaluate Christian doctrine, given how problematic that doctrine is among Christians themselves (check out James Tabor, Bart Ehrman, Richard Dawkins to name only several) why would onlookers want to subscribe to it?
Please explain how one can be ethnically Israelite/Hebrew and not Jewish. when Jewishness is already recognized as a religio-ethnicity. Practice of the rituals and subscription to all the doctrines are not prerequisites for one to be Jewish.
You convert from Judaism to another religion. You can call them Jews till your blue in the face but it won’t change their mind. Doesn’t change your genes but does change your beliefs.
Good reply. I would never call them Jews nor would I generally argue with them because that involves logic. These people are usually ignorant of biblical text and exegesis, so engaging them in a theological debate would be largely pointless.
Stopping any discussion would be the problem that they come from utter conviction in the correctness of their rectitude and in belief, especially that dubious Pauline doctrine of Solas Fides.
We can extrapolate from these people to the so-called pro-Palestinian rabble. As their slogans reveal, their goal is not the creation of a state but the destruction of an already existing legal state (From the river to the sea) and the obliteration of its people both within its borders (Intifada Now) and outside of it (Global Jihad) which justifies all forms of violence (Resistance by any Means). They are coming from positions of belief and hatred; thus, trying to engage them in exploration of their claims is futile. Other techniques are needed to break through their wall of self-righteous hatred.
Happy Channukah.
Thank you for reconfirming my point that one cannot be both Jewish and Christian at the same time. One can "switch sides," as it were, but being both simultaneously is a theological oxymoron. Of course the so-called messianic Jews completely fail to see the fundamental contradiction in their claims to be both.
Luckily the good bishop did not fall into German hands. For them, Jewishness was a "race," not something one could cast off by donning a mitre and picking up a gilded crozier.
You are wrong, in logic, Puck. Jews are not a 'single' race, (and so the Germans were wrong, unless you are saying the Germans were right) And anyone, including Jewish People, can convert to Christianity. I have just given you three examples, from which what I say follows.
Thank you for your reply, Dan.
Regarding "race," biologically, anthropologically, sociologically, historically, theologically, Jews are not now nor ever have been a distinct race despite political expediency as a means to single Jews out for "special treatment.".
Please note, that in my response where I said "For them [the Germans], Jewishness was a "race," not something one could cast off . . . " the text was perhaps an overly oblique reference to "Nürnberger Gesetze.". My apologies for assuming readers in general would be familiar with the Nuremberg Race Laws.
Regarding conversions, people of all religions are fence jumping into their neighbours' yards. Such is the fickle nature of human belief. I have had too many missionaries hailing the Good Word literally knocking on my door crying "Believe, believe, and you will be saved" to grant them any. credence. As they often contradict each other, none of these door-to-door peddlers of used salvation can be taken at face value. Evaluating claims using critical thinking tools, an informed knowledge of primary texts, plus some familiarity with the evolution of those texts is absolutely necessary not to be led down the garden path of theological error.
such a diplomatic plea. Love your narrative.
I will say what Joshua cannot and would not:
Fuck this Pope and the popemobile he rode in on! His holiness? More like ass-holliness!
Pope pius XII remained silent, knowing millions of Jews were being murdered. He traded his silence for the establishment if Vatican city. Prior ruling popes confined Jews to ghettos and prevented them from practicing professions. Popes seem to mostly lack a moral compass.
p.s., We want our fucking shit back!
His erasure of the absolute Jewish Jesus- Yeshua is cowardly
Great article. It should also be noted, that elimnation of Jews in a Jewish State, and Jews, worldwide, the doctrine of Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran wants to rid the planet of anyone who does not accept their Allah and their murderous prophet. So it will be: First they came for the Socialist, but I wasn't a socialist, and I did nothing, Then they came for the Jews, but I wasn't Jews, so I did nothing, etc., and eventually they will come for the Pope, etc., etc. I hope this letter has been sent to the Vatican, the richest church in the world.