Well said. Now israel has to win the war of ideas. A good platform for it would be the court. Take a country such as Canada or Ireland to the ICC. Countries which have portrayed the entire war as an Israeli attack and slaughter of women and children. Julius Streicher was convicted at Nuremberg for the same crimes. PM Trudeau in Canada publicly stated that the Israelis have to stop "killing babies". Take these criminals to court.
Much more effective than taking them (hamas, hezbollah, the UN? Iran?) to court (which court? the ICC is not a legitimate court) would be for the USA to freeze ALL funds to Gaza, and thus to hamas, so long as hamas is in charge of Gaza. If other Western nations would follow this example, this massive economic hit will do more to halt violence and change minds than going to court. Now I am dreaming, but if Trump would decide to impose economic sanctions on any nation which sends funds to Gaza while hamas is in charge, that would become the true Art of the Deal.
Actually friend, taking a country like Canada or Ireland to court is more important and I'll explain to you why. A physical war can never defeat an idea.
At this point the Palestinian idea has almost completely defeated the Israel idea. These countries, such as Canada and Ireland, have championed the Palestinian idea throughout the entire war. The Palestinian idea, much like it's Nazi predecessor, is actually criminal. The Palestine idea, much like it's Nazi predecessor must be defeated with an idea of greater truth.
And as you know, those that support the pro Palestinian idea are trying to convict Israel. They are trying to prove in court that the Israel idea is criminal.
I believe that those who support the Israel idea have truth on their side. But truth and a better idea are useless if they are hidden in darkness.
So the court is a good place, with all eyes watching, of both defeating the Palestinian idea, and explaining the Israel idea to a large portion of the world.
Winning the war of ideas, friend, is actually more important than winning the physical war.
I am not averse to taking the issue to court, except for having little to no faith the court would treat Israel with fairness. An adverse decision in such a biased forum would only reinforce Palestinian claims and diminish those of Israel, given the false impression on the world the matter has been fairly decided in court. Military victory and economic sanctions are much more helpful in strengthening Israel. If an unbiased forum existed, I would agree with you that taking these countries to court had some value. Appreciate your point of view though, thanks for sharing.
People are more perceptive than you think Steve. A televised court forum would provide Israel a chance to share the idea of Israel to the world and also to defeat the lying hateful idea of Palestine.
Israel must win the war of ideas to win the war. To concede defeat in the war of ideas, which you seem to be suggesting, is to concede defeat.
Not conceding defeat at all. Mostly indifferent to the opinion of the world because strength and resolve are determinative in this world. You have an idealistic view of people I don't share. Although often goodhearted, most people are idiots and morons. I've learned long ago to care little about what others think. It has made me happier in life and still close to family and friends. Fundamentally, I find Jew hatred to be devil inspired, and reasoning with Jew haters to be largely futile.
My point isn't about idealism, goodheartedness, idiots, morons, happiness etc. My point is that people think in terms of idea constructs.
Similar to learning a language, people learn an idea and then think based on the idea they learned. Facts don't change an idea, at least not efficiently.
A new learned idea must be shared. An idea that is superior in truth and more beneficial to the world.
Take a moment to consider how many Jewish Israeli idea makers have contributed to the anti Israel Palestine idea. Take for example Shlomo Sand or Ilan Pappe to name but a couple. These are individuals who teach at Israeli institutions of higher learning.
The idea makers in Israel espoused anti Israel ideas.
And the war is not over. Israel is trying to save as many hostages as possible before the war begins again--and it will. More decisive blows (coming soon) will leave no doubt in anyone's mind that it was NOT a victory for any of the terrorist groups. As for the toxic ideology--that will take a generation of un-brainwashing and involvement of the Muslim Reform Movement and the moderate Arab countries that want to sign the Abraham Accords, live with co-existence, peace and prosperity. (But have no doubt--Jew Hating ideologies never die out completely, but they can be contained as had been done for decades). Look at the United Arab Emirates as the model for what is coming. Saudi Arabia has already begun steps in this direction. A new Middle East is coming, soon.
I’m trusting in Trump’s greed for peace and building golden things. First day after inauguration when asked by a reporter about ‘Gaza’ his eyes sparkled as he lightly said, “that’s a beautiful beach, isn’t it…” and moved onto the next subject. I remembered the words of Zephaniah written to Judah: “For Gaza will be abandoned and Ashkelon a desolation and Ashdod driven out at midday (when Trump took the oath). Woe to the inhabitants of the seacoast…the word of the Lord is against you O Canaan, land of Philistines and I will destroy you so that there be no inhabitant…so the seacoast will be pastures…and the coast will be for the remnant of the House of Judah…for the Lord their God will care for them and restore their fortune.”
I wish that I could feel as positively as you do. With Hamas still in power, its tattered army can regroup eventually. UNRWA will keep teaching generations of Palestinians to hate Jews and martyr themselves by killing. Germany lost because they were no longer in power. They did not have an army nor were they able to keep spreading their propaganda to all German children. When someone else, who is willing to live side-by-side with Israel, takes over Gaza, then we will be victorious. For now, we’ve had a number of amazing military victories in battle, but have not won the war.
In WW2 the allies far outnumbered Germany and could perpetually keep occupation armies all over the country (and even so would have had a real problem with an insurgency if it happened). That’s not in the cards for Israel. Israel can’t and doesn’t want to occupy Gaza. The war will continue as long as the Palestinians have genocidal goals and progressives encourage those goals. Till that inflection point, Israel needs to be vigilant and hit at Hamas hard whenever it regroups. By Hamas’ own standards, preventing Hamas from a genocide and ethnic cleansing of Jews is a win for Israel.
This is a must. The fact that the Islamist’s goal is to not only annihilate Israel but to annihilate each and every one of us. We must resist this evil on all fronts. If I was in charge of anything I would start by publicising Hamas charter “Israel will exist until… blah, blah blah. Make the world aware of what their vision for us is. Be clear in telling their story it is truly ugly and truly genocidal. And as a buttress to this tactic I would also whack every known HamAss supporter I could find, does this mean I’m a genocidal maniac, mebbe. I was bar mitzvah on Behoukosai and I took that parsha to heart Leviticus 26:3 means a lot to me.
Exactly so. Every Hamas and Hezbollah soldier (though they are none of them that) is a dead man walking. The media would be truer to their trade by recognising this and reporting accordingly.
Excellent post written with ironic truth. hamas claims of victory reminds me of the Black Knight refusing to surrender in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, after King Arthur has chopped off his arms and legs. Like the Black Knight, hamas members hide their face and boast defiantly of victory because they still live, though without arms or legs. And why does the Black Knight live? It would be easy for King Arthur to kill the Black Knight. Because King Arthur, like Israel, takes no joy in destroying an enemy after it has lost its ability to do harm.
I did use the black knight as the image for my original post. Felt very much the same, only difference is this black knight has delusional fans that want to believe the narrative of a glorious victory.
Haha, we think alike. No doubt some fools see the fact the Black Knight stands, well, sort of stands, and remains defiant as an example of never giving up, never yielding. Monty Python was a comedy so the scene is funny, but to my mind it was always pathetic. The Black Knight toothlessly (we can't see his face, but no doubt toothless) telling King Arthur he cannot pass, but lacking the ability to back it up. Biting off (maybe not, has no teeth) more than he can chew, and as King Arthur passes we cansee he only lives to boast because King Arthur cares not to boast or gloat, but shows mercy. Much like Israel.
Hamas is going to use the rebuilding of Gaza as a front for rebuilding their underground infrastructure only bigger and better. They'll dig so deep that nothing will be able to reach them. They'll dig so deep that nothing will be able to detect tunnels burrowing into Israel. They'll be funded and protected by their Western and Middle Eastern backers. They must be destroyed.
Unfortunately, the job is not done. The way that the Allies turned around Germany was to force an unconditional surrender, arrest, try, convict, and execute its leaders, and then occupy the country for two generations to prevent children in being indoctrinated. That’s what Israel needs to do. They cannot allow the radicalization of the youth to continue. They cannot allow the idea that Palestine will ever be a nation in the current geography of Israel. Until the Palestinians realize that they HAVE to live in peace with israel, Israel needs to continue it’s present policies. If the Palestinians cannot learn to live in peace, I would suggest that Israel remove all of them to Jordan and annex Gaza and the West Bank, the rest of the world be damned.
Those are only options available to a superpower with a permanent UNSCR seat, and the amount of people to occupy an area for decades. Israel doesn’t have any of those, so it’s not an option.
You also can’t nation build a place fragmented into clans with zero interest in being a nation. The Palestinian have always prioritized their goal of a genocide above a goal of building a state - it’s why they took land Israel gave them and endless development aid from the world and plowed it into a terrorism and warfare infrastructure instead of building a state. Like with Afghanistan, the Palestinians are a force of chaos and destruction, and their priorities are evident. Israel’s job is to defend itself from the barbaric murderousness of the Palestinians. Progressives imagining that the Palestinians want peace doesn’t change reality. Magical realism doesn’t work.
This article reads like a return to the mindset of pre-October 7. Yes, Israel made gains, especially by imposing severe losses on Hezbollah and Hamas. But these groups don't mind losses, nor do the populations that serve and feed them. Another round is in the offing. Attacks in Judea and Samaria are up. Soon there will be attacks from Gaza, and eventually the fake Lebanese army will help Hezbollah regroup in Lebanon. The Palestinians are the real existential threat to Israel and Israelis, but for a variety of reasons, some of which home-grown, Israel still refuses to get rid of them. I don't see international reconstruction of Gaza producing a democratic Israel-friendly polity or society. Hamas may not have "won" the war, but Israel, if this cease-fire deal reaches stage two and three, will have "lost" it. Ever since the 2005 disengagement Israel has fought several "successful" wars in Gaza and thought it had achieved containment. Then came October 7.
Israel has never fought a single successful war in Gaza until now. Under Netanyahu’s hesitant leadership Israel avoided ‘provoking’ Hezbollah and Hamas and never fought with any decisive intent, always muzzled by the US. This war Israel stomped both Islamist adversaries while giving little care to the handwringing of the Democratic administration. In the future when anyone shows up at the border in civilian garb or not, they should be shot. Any open training of Hamas should be bombed. Israel’s level of aggressive response, established since October 7, needs to be maintained consistently by all future governments. That’s how Israel’s battlefield victories get sustained.
I agree with your assessment. It is not realistic to set expectations to the level of eliminating every single Hamas terrorist. The best that Israel can hope for is treating their existential war with their muslim foes as an incurable but managable disease, like Diabetes. Manage the disease and hold it at bay. That is the reality unfortunately.
That's not the case. Those 840 come from the entire political spectrum (including a few ultra orthodox), and would have similarly wide thoughts about how the war should wrap up. Few Israelis want Hamas to survive, but many are fine trading Hamas POWs and even convicted terrorists for abducted Israelis. The current government caused those civilians and soldiers to be captured by believing their appeasement worked with Hamas. There's a cost to pay for the first day of the war, and the majority of Israel is behind paying it, as painful as it is. After that is done, Israel paints new targets on Hamas. The Palestinians deserve the punishment of a kleptocratic and murderous Hamas oppressing them in the wreckage of Hamastan Gaza.
Not sure about bigger. The Islamist axis built themselves up in their own minds too big, and got their ass handed to them. Outside of propaganda, they've retreated after smaller wars (2006, for example) that ended less decisively in an ass-kicking for them like this war. Israel is now at a very aggressive defense posture.
Listening to 'progressives', taking a posture of maximum restraint only invited a bigger, more aggressive war. Stopping to listen to Biden et al is when Hezbollah and Hamas scurried into their holes like the cockroaches they are. The less Israel listens to progressives in the US and EU and elsewhere, the safer it is. The more it listens to them, the closer Israel is to existential danger.
Erdogan is an asshole, but that's unlikely. That would get them ejected from NATO and have other consequences. Turkey is a democracy, as odious as their wannabe Sultan is, while Iran is definitely not.
Well said. Now israel has to win the war of ideas. A good platform for it would be the court. Take a country such as Canada or Ireland to the ICC. Countries which have portrayed the entire war as an Israeli attack and slaughter of women and children. Julius Streicher was convicted at Nuremberg for the same crimes. PM Trudeau in Canada publicly stated that the Israelis have to stop "killing babies". Take these criminals to court.
Much more effective than taking them (hamas, hezbollah, the UN? Iran?) to court (which court? the ICC is not a legitimate court) would be for the USA to freeze ALL funds to Gaza, and thus to hamas, so long as hamas is in charge of Gaza. If other Western nations would follow this example, this massive economic hit will do more to halt violence and change minds than going to court. Now I am dreaming, but if Trump would decide to impose economic sanctions on any nation which sends funds to Gaza while hamas is in charge, that would become the true Art of the Deal.
Actually friend, taking a country like Canada or Ireland to court is more important and I'll explain to you why. A physical war can never defeat an idea.
At this point the Palestinian idea has almost completely defeated the Israel idea. These countries, such as Canada and Ireland, have championed the Palestinian idea throughout the entire war. The Palestinian idea, much like it's Nazi predecessor, is actually criminal. The Palestine idea, much like it's Nazi predecessor must be defeated with an idea of greater truth.
And as you know, those that support the pro Palestinian idea are trying to convict Israel. They are trying to prove in court that the Israel idea is criminal.
I believe that those who support the Israel idea have truth on their side. But truth and a better idea are useless if they are hidden in darkness.
So the court is a good place, with all eyes watching, of both defeating the Palestinian idea, and explaining the Israel idea to a large portion of the world.
Winning the war of ideas, friend, is actually more important than winning the physical war.
I am not averse to taking the issue to court, except for having little to no faith the court would treat Israel with fairness. An adverse decision in such a biased forum would only reinforce Palestinian claims and diminish those of Israel, given the false impression on the world the matter has been fairly decided in court. Military victory and economic sanctions are much more helpful in strengthening Israel. If an unbiased forum existed, I would agree with you that taking these countries to court had some value. Appreciate your point of view though, thanks for sharing.
People are more perceptive than you think Steve. A televised court forum would provide Israel a chance to share the idea of Israel to the world and also to defeat the lying hateful idea of Palestine.
Israel must win the war of ideas to win the war. To concede defeat in the war of ideas, which you seem to be suggesting, is to concede defeat.
Not conceding defeat at all. Mostly indifferent to the opinion of the world because strength and resolve are determinative in this world. You have an idealistic view of people I don't share. Although often goodhearted, most people are idiots and morons. I've learned long ago to care little about what others think. It has made me happier in life and still close to family and friends. Fundamentally, I find Jew hatred to be devil inspired, and reasoning with Jew haters to be largely futile.
My point isn't about idealism, goodheartedness, idiots, morons, happiness etc. My point is that people think in terms of idea constructs.
Similar to learning a language, people learn an idea and then think based on the idea they learned. Facts don't change an idea, at least not efficiently.
A new learned idea must be shared. An idea that is superior in truth and more beneficial to the world.
Take a moment to consider how many Jewish Israeli idea makers have contributed to the anti Israel Palestine idea. Take for example Shlomo Sand or Ilan Pappe to name but a couple. These are individuals who teach at Israeli institutions of higher learning.
The idea makers in Israel espoused anti Israel ideas.
And the war is not over. Israel is trying to save as many hostages as possible before the war begins again--and it will. More decisive blows (coming soon) will leave no doubt in anyone's mind that it was NOT a victory for any of the terrorist groups. As for the toxic ideology--that will take a generation of un-brainwashing and involvement of the Muslim Reform Movement and the moderate Arab countries that want to sign the Abraham Accords, live with co-existence, peace and prosperity. (But have no doubt--Jew Hating ideologies never die out completely, but they can be contained as had been done for decades). Look at the United Arab Emirates as the model for what is coming. Saudi Arabia has already begun steps in this direction. A new Middle East is coming, soon.
Definitely a feel good article but the job is not done yet.
I’m trusting in Trump’s greed for peace and building golden things. First day after inauguration when asked by a reporter about ‘Gaza’ his eyes sparkled as he lightly said, “that’s a beautiful beach, isn’t it…” and moved onto the next subject. I remembered the words of Zephaniah written to Judah: “For Gaza will be abandoned and Ashkelon a desolation and Ashdod driven out at midday (when Trump took the oath). Woe to the inhabitants of the seacoast…the word of the Lord is against you O Canaan, land of Philistines and I will destroy you so that there be no inhabitant…so the seacoast will be pastures…and the coast will be for the remnant of the House of Judah…for the Lord their God will care for them and restore their fortune.”
Great post! The IDF has Hamas Hezbollah and Iran on the ropes and should finish them off once and for all
Great post - sharing.
I wish that I could feel as positively as you do. With Hamas still in power, its tattered army can regroup eventually. UNRWA will keep teaching generations of Palestinians to hate Jews and martyr themselves by killing. Germany lost because they were no longer in power. They did not have an army nor were they able to keep spreading their propaganda to all German children. When someone else, who is willing to live side-by-side with Israel, takes over Gaza, then we will be victorious. For now, we’ve had a number of amazing military victories in battle, but have not won the war.
In WW2 the allies far outnumbered Germany and could perpetually keep occupation armies all over the country (and even so would have had a real problem with an insurgency if it happened). That’s not in the cards for Israel. Israel can’t and doesn’t want to occupy Gaza. The war will continue as long as the Palestinians have genocidal goals and progressives encourage those goals. Till that inflection point, Israel needs to be vigilant and hit at Hamas hard whenever it regroups. By Hamas’ own standards, preventing Hamas from a genocide and ethnic cleansing of Jews is a win for Israel.
This is a must. The fact that the Islamist’s goal is to not only annihilate Israel but to annihilate each and every one of us. We must resist this evil on all fronts. If I was in charge of anything I would start by publicising Hamas charter “Israel will exist until… blah, blah blah. Make the world aware of what their vision for us is. Be clear in telling their story it is truly ugly and truly genocidal. And as a buttress to this tactic I would also whack every known HamAss supporter I could find, does this mean I’m a genocidal maniac, mebbe. I was bar mitzvah on Behoukosai and I took that parsha to heart Leviticus 26:3 means a lot to me.
Exactly so. Every Hamas and Hezbollah soldier (though they are none of them that) is a dead man walking. The media would be truer to their trade by recognising this and reporting accordingly.
Fifteen months of the genocide lie immediately followed by the glorious Islamist victory lie. Glad so many not falling for either.
Excellent post written with ironic truth. hamas claims of victory reminds me of the Black Knight refusing to surrender in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, after King Arthur has chopped off his arms and legs. Like the Black Knight, hamas members hide their face and boast defiantly of victory because they still live, though without arms or legs. And why does the Black Knight live? It would be easy for King Arthur to kill the Black Knight. Because King Arthur, like Israel, takes no joy in destroying an enemy after it has lost its ability to do harm.
I did use the black knight as the image for my original post. Felt very much the same, only difference is this black knight has delusional fans that want to believe the narrative of a glorious victory.
Haha, we think alike. No doubt some fools see the fact the Black Knight stands, well, sort of stands, and remains defiant as an example of never giving up, never yielding. Monty Python was a comedy so the scene is funny, but to my mind it was always pathetic. The Black Knight toothlessly (we can't see his face, but no doubt toothless) telling King Arthur he cannot pass, but lacking the ability to back it up. Biting off (maybe not, has no teeth) more than he can chew, and as King Arthur passes we cansee he only lives to boast because King Arthur cares not to boast or gloat, but shows mercy. Much like Israel.
Amen
Hamas is going to use the rebuilding of Gaza as a front for rebuilding their underground infrastructure only bigger and better. They'll dig so deep that nothing will be able to reach them. They'll dig so deep that nothing will be able to detect tunnels burrowing into Israel. They'll be funded and protected by their Western and Middle Eastern backers. They must be destroyed.
They will be destroyed.
Unfortunately, the job is not done. The way that the Allies turned around Germany was to force an unconditional surrender, arrest, try, convict, and execute its leaders, and then occupy the country for two generations to prevent children in being indoctrinated. That’s what Israel needs to do. They cannot allow the radicalization of the youth to continue. They cannot allow the idea that Palestine will ever be a nation in the current geography of Israel. Until the Palestinians realize that they HAVE to live in peace with israel, Israel needs to continue it’s present policies. If the Palestinians cannot learn to live in peace, I would suggest that Israel remove all of them to Jordan and annex Gaza and the West Bank, the rest of the world be damned.
Those are only options available to a superpower with a permanent UNSCR seat, and the amount of people to occupy an area for decades. Israel doesn’t have any of those, so it’s not an option.
You also can’t nation build a place fragmented into clans with zero interest in being a nation. The Palestinian have always prioritized their goal of a genocide above a goal of building a state - it’s why they took land Israel gave them and endless development aid from the world and plowed it into a terrorism and warfare infrastructure instead of building a state. Like with Afghanistan, the Palestinians are a force of chaos and destruction, and their priorities are evident. Israel’s job is to defend itself from the barbaric murderousness of the Palestinians. Progressives imagining that the Palestinians want peace doesn’t change reality. Magical realism doesn’t work.
This article reads like a return to the mindset of pre-October 7. Yes, Israel made gains, especially by imposing severe losses on Hezbollah and Hamas. But these groups don't mind losses, nor do the populations that serve and feed them. Another round is in the offing. Attacks in Judea and Samaria are up. Soon there will be attacks from Gaza, and eventually the fake Lebanese army will help Hezbollah regroup in Lebanon. The Palestinians are the real existential threat to Israel and Israelis, but for a variety of reasons, some of which home-grown, Israel still refuses to get rid of them. I don't see international reconstruction of Gaza producing a democratic Israel-friendly polity or society. Hamas may not have "won" the war, but Israel, if this cease-fire deal reaches stage two and three, will have "lost" it. Ever since the 2005 disengagement Israel has fought several "successful" wars in Gaza and thought it had achieved containment. Then came October 7.
Israel has never fought a single successful war in Gaza until now. Under Netanyahu’s hesitant leadership Israel avoided ‘provoking’ Hezbollah and Hamas and never fought with any decisive intent, always muzzled by the US. This war Israel stomped both Islamist adversaries while giving little care to the handwringing of the Democratic administration. In the future when anyone shows up at the border in civilian garb or not, they should be shot. Any open training of Hamas should be bombed. Israel’s level of aggressive response, established since October 7, needs to be maintained consistently by all future governments. That’s how Israel’s battlefield victories get sustained.
I agree with your assessment. It is not realistic to set expectations to the level of eliminating every single Hamas terrorist. The best that Israel can hope for is treating their existential war with their muslim foes as an incurable but managable disease, like Diabetes. Manage the disease and hold it at bay. That is the reality unfortunately.
It’s a disease you can deter into remission.
Lipstick on a pig.
The voices of the 840 (plus ) warriors demand more than a return to the status quo.
That's not the case. Those 840 come from the entire political spectrum (including a few ultra orthodox), and would have similarly wide thoughts about how the war should wrap up. Few Israelis want Hamas to survive, but many are fine trading Hamas POWs and even convicted terrorists for abducted Israelis. The current government caused those civilians and soldiers to be captured by believing their appeasement worked with Hamas. There's a cost to pay for the first day of the war, and the majority of Israel is behind paying it, as painful as it is. After that is done, Israel paints new targets on Hamas. The Palestinians deserve the punishment of a kleptocratic and murderous Hamas oppressing them in the wreckage of Hamastan Gaza.
No they didn’t, but the war did not end either.
There are more episodes coming…
Probably bigger too
Not sure about bigger. The Islamist axis built themselves up in their own minds too big, and got their ass handed to them. Outside of propaganda, they've retreated after smaller wars (2006, for example) that ended less decisively in an ass-kicking for them like this war. Israel is now at a very aggressive defense posture.
Listening to 'progressives', taking a posture of maximum restraint only invited a bigger, more aggressive war. Stopping to listen to Biden et al is when Hezbollah and Hamas scurried into their holes like the cockroaches they are. The less Israel listens to progressives in the US and EU and elsewhere, the safer it is. The more it listens to them, the closer Israel is to existential danger.
Watch and wait…
I’m postulating that the Turks are going create their own axis against Israel.
Erdogan is an asshole, but that's unlikely. That would get them ejected from NATO and have other consequences. Turkey is a democracy, as odious as their wannabe Sultan is, while Iran is definitely not.