One hundo as my alphabet mafia daughter would say. Red-pilled galore in the past two years and everything that's gone on since has only solidified my leftist defection. Mugged by absurd, extremist ideology.
Ow I so know what you mean. My guess is that most of us share this. Thank you Joshua for your newsletters, you are helping us all. Even seeing that others are going through the same changes, I apparently am not so objective and liberal if my people and my family are under heavy fire. And the world views drive me insane. I never knew there were so many clueless people in the world.
We can only count on ourselves now, how sad is that?? Am Israel chai
That’s what Israeli leaders from Ben Gurion to Golda to Bibi always proclaimed: we should always try to find friends and allies but can only count on OURSELVES! That’s why when Israelis are fighting each other their enemies win.
Stop calling them “elites”, elite implies there is something exceptional about them & there is nothing exceptional or elite about them except may be their evangelical zeal to be a useful idiot. Anybody can be so far up their ass they need a ladder to get back down, call them regressives or repressives
"I also cannot understand how people who call themselves “liberal” can somehow justify, in the name of “liberation” and “human rights,” the heinous Hamas-led crimes against humanity — but fail to comprehend that Israel has taken the most humanitarian steps in modern warfare history, hence a less than two-to-one ratio of civilian-to-combatant casualties, which is nothing short of unprecedented."
Their worldview is about seeing themselves as morally superior for sympathizing with "oppressed" people, who are unsuccessful (in their eyes) because of oppression, and disdaining "oppressors", whose success they explain as resulting from oppressing others. Jews don't fit.
By any reasonably objective standards, Jews are among the most oppressed people in the world, and yet we are largely successful. That refutes the ideas that they depend on for their own sense of worth. That means that they are wrong, and not superior because of this - and that is something that they cannot tolerate. Our very existence and success offends their sense of superiority, as we don't fit into their mental model of the world. And that is why they hate us.
And once they hate us, our behavior doesn't matter - only that we be effaced so as no longer to disturb their thinking.
"but fail to comprehend that Israel has taken the most humanitarian steps in modern warfare history, hence a less than two-to-one ratio of civilian-to-combatant casualties, which is nothing short of unprecedented" - based on the impressions of this war I get from the major British news sources, I'd expect most people here to be unaware of the measures taken and to be totally ignorant of the civilian-to-combatant fatality ratio or how that compares with other urban warfare situations. The headline stories relating to the war in Gaza generally highlight the death toll, the destructiveness of the campaign, attacks on and destruction of hospitals and schools, Palestinians who've lost family members, and the humanitarian situation.
Great column. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been lectured in substack by people who know nothing about the Mideast and have zero respect for my Judaism. My religion my nation my heritage my culture. They wouldn’t ever dare use such disrespect to any other group. The moral preening is pervasive. The slogans are idiotic. (Colonial state - when asked what country Jews colonized Israel for there is usually no response / once someone actually wrote England).
Person said Balfour declaration was actually antisemitic because then England wouldn’t have to deal with its own Jews. Mind bending into pretzels to get some pre conceived ‘facts’ to make sense. It’s un fucking believable what I see. But you know.
Jews from other places colonized Israel on their own behalf. They had a legal right to do this, because Britain controlled the territory of Palestine and turned over the task of partitioning that territory to the UN, to establish jewish and arab states. The West Bank settlements are also a form of colonization, illegal, in my opinion.
Perhaps we might distinguish between colonization and colonialism, that latter being a form of colonization with one country taking over land that does not belong to it, to hold and control that land, whereas Israel became its own state, not a vassal or colony of some other country. Yes, Israel is an ally of Western democracies and is dependent on many of these for financial and moral support, especially the US, but it is a sovereign state. I would say that the Israeli settlements in the West Bank and claims to a "greater Israel" beyond the borders of the UN partition for Israel are a form of colonialism. As for "white" settler colonialism, that is bs.
Nice post. I think the term colonialism doesn’t apply to the establishment of Israel at all. As far as the West Bank this was land won in a war in Israel prevailed over Arab aggressors. Settling that land is a complex issue and at this point national security for Israel pays a large role in that.
Responsible modern societies do not annex foreign territory, whether through conquest or defensive war. They return the captured territory to their opponent once that opponent is no longer a threat. Israeli military control of Palestinian territory is justified while there is a threat to Israel, but that territory should only be held pending eventual peace settlement, not annexed to Israel, which is effectively what the settlements are trying to achieve.
So historically Israel has given territory for peace. Sinai to Egypt is the example. Or for no peace. Withdrawal from Gaza is the example. As far as the West Bank goes, immediately after the 6 day war, the Khartoum resolution basically refused to recognize Israel’s right to exist and there for there was no peace. Several offers have been on the table which the Palestinians have refused. Now several months after October 7, at least 3/4 of West Bank Palestinians polled believe that 10/7 was a great idea. So realistically speaking most Israelis at this point cannot imagine living next to a Palestinian state. UN guarantees are of course meaningless (Lebanon for example)
You misrepresent Palestinian views and you conflate Israeli military control over Palestinian territory with Israeli annexation of Palestinian territory. One poll and some extremists do not necessarily reflect the majority of Palestinian opinion. There would have been a peace settlement by now if it were not for the extremists on both sides.
What evidence do you have to contradict this poll? I understand it’s one poll but it from my understanding the group doing the polling is known for reliability.
There are knee jerk liberals who follow what they think is the popular liberal trend. Then there are critically thinking liberals who critically think based on real facts. I am the latter one, who also reads conservative views in order to check myself. This is why it is rational for a self critical liberal to support Israel's fight to sleep at night. It's the correct liberal view to take.
We did call ourselves colonists and pioneers. Zev Jabotinsky is the father of the revisionist Zionism. I grew up in a deeply revisionist household right after the big one wwii. My father and uncle attended camp betar in the 1930’s in Hunter NY. My 2 favorite Jabotinsky quotes are 1 “Jews learn to shoot “ and 2 “Better to have a gun and not need it than to need a gun and not have it”. The Jerusalem Post was known as The Palestine Post. I became a believer very young.
In the US, Liberal for what it used to be is a memory now. I never labeled myself liberal or conservative regarding social policy, etc. I looked at each issue to decide if it aligned with my values and beliefs. The Progressive Woke mentality seems to be, we'll shut your voice down because we have nothing to say to you except to shout our scripted narrative. As for our cowardly politicians, I love Einat Wilf when she said, "The distinction between doing good and feeling good is that our policy makers just want to feel good." She gave examples of politicians talking about a ceasefire, sending humanitarian aid which makes them feel good. The attitudes of the UK, US and others is such that these countries will destroy themselves if they continue on the way they are. The enemy can sit back and watch it happen with glee. Hopefully, they will wake up before it's too late.
Thank you for sharing that document, Kuffr. I had heard it discussed, but had never read it. My only disagreement with Jabotinsky is his frequent referrals to Zionists as ‘colonists’ and to Palestinians as ‘natives’. We know from history that neither label fits, except when viewed through a pro-Palestinian lens. I wonder at his terminology and I wonder at your purpose in sharing what must surely be used, by so-called Liberals among us, to tar and feather the entire Zionist goal.
I found out years ago when I became a committed Catholic - but I am sure the same could be said for others in a similar situation - that the Liberal/Conservative tribal identities are not very helpful. The Catholic Church could be said to be very conservative on some issues, such as abortion and Gay things, I suppose, but to identify with some very liberal positions on others, such as social welfare, and extending opportunity, and tax policy, not to mention many international issues. This lack of L/C tribal polarisation of the Catholic Church is one major reason for it's current problems in the US, but that is another issue and not of course for this forum. It all makes it extremely difficult when it comes to voting, and a nightmare for friends and family to predict my position. I would imagine my current response to the issue of Israel and the war is also giving them plenty of material to reflect on. It is not a way to win friends and influence people! That said, I should add that in my experience the whole Liberal/Conservative divide is much more polarised in the US than it is here in the UK, although that is maybe changing here, alas. Anyway, in spite of it being confusing and even uncomfortable at times, I am happy and proud to say I am neither Liberal nor Conservative. And that makes for some amused relief at last on my part - which is to end on a positive note!
There is much confusion about the meaning of terms such as liberal, progressive, left, right, capitalism, socialism, etc. Many don't even know the traditional definitions of these terms. Others know the traditional definitions but claim that the definitions have changed with time. Still others know the definitions but misrepresent the terms for political ends.
I would would say that much of the criticism of Israel coming from the left comes from a mostly radical, illiberal (in either sense of the term liberal) minority on the left that is extremely vocal. My guess is that the majority of the left is still mainstream political liberalism and that these people generally support Israel.
Fascinating point, the progressive concept has many such defects - the ability to create an obvious fiction, groom the socially tolerant to accept it or be punished, then use it to confuse the most tolerant people into accepting completely unacceptable behavior.
Embracing the fiction of “white race” grooms large groups of tolerant people to accept attacks on white people is self-defense, punishing those who don’t accept, and then claiming rejection of terrorism is racist. It only requires identifying a group as white makes it acceptable to attack them, the more progressive the more pronounced the defense of the aggressor.
Similarly, embracing “gender” grooms people to accept a man playing a woman is actually female, and rejecting men recruiting women to participate in their sex fantasy is transphobic. The more progressive, the more pronounced the fiction is accepted.
I still consider myself a liberal, even though "lefties" have gone mostly insane. (Don't want to let them define the terms). But I totally agree: we are a tolerant bunch, BUT we cannot tolerate intolerance.
A conservative is a former liberal who has been mugged by reality.
One hundo as my alphabet mafia daughter would say. Red-pilled galore in the past two years and everything that's gone on since has only solidified my leftist defection. Mugged by absurd, extremist ideology.
Love this.
Ow I so know what you mean. My guess is that most of us share this. Thank you Joshua for your newsletters, you are helping us all. Even seeing that others are going through the same changes, I apparently am not so objective and liberal if my people and my family are under heavy fire. And the world views drive me insane. I never knew there were so many clueless people in the world.
We can only count on ourselves now, how sad is that?? Am Israel chai
That’s what Israeli leaders from Ben Gurion to Golda to Bibi always proclaimed: we should always try to find friends and allies but can only count on OURSELVES! That’s why when Israelis are fighting each other their enemies win.
Stop calling them “elites”, elite implies there is something exceptional about them & there is nothing exceptional or elite about them except may be their evangelical zeal to be a useful idiot. Anybody can be so far up their ass they need a ladder to get back down, call them regressives or repressives
I believe Joshua was speaking of their self-perception, not awarding them a high level in society.
Exactly 👌
"I also cannot understand how people who call themselves “liberal” can somehow justify, in the name of “liberation” and “human rights,” the heinous Hamas-led crimes against humanity — but fail to comprehend that Israel has taken the most humanitarian steps in modern warfare history, hence a less than two-to-one ratio of civilian-to-combatant casualties, which is nothing short of unprecedented."
Their worldview is about seeing themselves as morally superior for sympathizing with "oppressed" people, who are unsuccessful (in their eyes) because of oppression, and disdaining "oppressors", whose success they explain as resulting from oppressing others. Jews don't fit.
By any reasonably objective standards, Jews are among the most oppressed people in the world, and yet we are largely successful. That refutes the ideas that they depend on for their own sense of worth. That means that they are wrong, and not superior because of this - and that is something that they cannot tolerate. Our very existence and success offends their sense of superiority, as we don't fit into their mental model of the world. And that is why they hate us.
And once they hate us, our behavior doesn't matter - only that we be effaced so as no longer to disturb their thinking.
Incredibly well said Russell 👏
"but fail to comprehend that Israel has taken the most humanitarian steps in modern warfare history, hence a less than two-to-one ratio of civilian-to-combatant casualties, which is nothing short of unprecedented" - based on the impressions of this war I get from the major British news sources, I'd expect most people here to be unaware of the measures taken and to be totally ignorant of the civilian-to-combatant fatality ratio or how that compares with other urban warfare situations. The headline stories relating to the war in Gaza generally highlight the death toll, the destructiveness of the campaign, attacks on and destruction of hospitals and schools, Palestinians who've lost family members, and the humanitarian situation.
Great column. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been lectured in substack by people who know nothing about the Mideast and have zero respect for my Judaism. My religion my nation my heritage my culture. They wouldn’t ever dare use such disrespect to any other group. The moral preening is pervasive. The slogans are idiotic. (Colonial state - when asked what country Jews colonized Israel for there is usually no response / once someone actually wrote England).
Hahahah re: England. Unbelievable. Thanks for sharing. 🙏
Person said Balfour declaration was actually antisemitic because then England wouldn’t have to deal with its own Jews. Mind bending into pretzels to get some pre conceived ‘facts’ to make sense. It’s un fucking believable what I see. But you know.
Jews from other places colonized Israel on their own behalf. They had a legal right to do this, because Britain controlled the territory of Palestine and turned over the task of partitioning that territory to the UN, to establish jewish and arab states. The West Bank settlements are also a form of colonization, illegal, in my opinion.
Perhaps we might distinguish between colonization and colonialism, that latter being a form of colonization with one country taking over land that does not belong to it, to hold and control that land, whereas Israel became its own state, not a vassal or colony of some other country. Yes, Israel is an ally of Western democracies and is dependent on many of these for financial and moral support, especially the US, but it is a sovereign state. I would say that the Israeli settlements in the West Bank and claims to a "greater Israel" beyond the borders of the UN partition for Israel are a form of colonialism. As for "white" settler colonialism, that is bs.
Nice post. I think the term colonialism doesn’t apply to the establishment of Israel at all. As far as the West Bank this was land won in a war in Israel prevailed over Arab aggressors. Settling that land is a complex issue and at this point national security for Israel pays a large role in that.
Responsible modern societies do not annex foreign territory, whether through conquest or defensive war. They return the captured territory to their opponent once that opponent is no longer a threat. Israeli military control of Palestinian territory is justified while there is a threat to Israel, but that territory should only be held pending eventual peace settlement, not annexed to Israel, which is effectively what the settlements are trying to achieve.
So historically Israel has given territory for peace. Sinai to Egypt is the example. Or for no peace. Withdrawal from Gaza is the example. As far as the West Bank goes, immediately after the 6 day war, the Khartoum resolution basically refused to recognize Israel’s right to exist and there for there was no peace. Several offers have been on the table which the Palestinians have refused. Now several months after October 7, at least 3/4 of West Bank Palestinians polled believe that 10/7 was a great idea. So realistically speaking most Israelis at this point cannot imagine living next to a Palestinian state. UN guarantees are of course meaningless (Lebanon for example)
You misrepresent Palestinian views and you conflate Israeli military control over Palestinian territory with Israeli annexation of Palestinian territory. One poll and some extremists do not necessarily reflect the majority of Palestinian opinion. There would have been a peace settlement by now if it were not for the extremists on both sides.
What evidence do you have to contradict this poll? I understand it’s one poll but it from my understanding the group doing the polling is known for reliability.
I have traveled the same road since October 7th. It has been a steep learning curve.
Highly recommend you watch this— you may simply be a classical liberal.
https://youtu.be/N-Vegf4ydHM?si=4hYNh4rGzGJPSX0E
I watched the first 20 minutes and yeah baby but then again I identify as a libertarian.
There are knee jerk liberals who follow what they think is the popular liberal trend. Then there are critically thinking liberals who critically think based on real facts. I am the latter one, who also reads conservative views in order to check myself. This is why it is rational for a self critical liberal to support Israel's fight to sleep at night. It's the correct liberal view to take.
Well said Bruce!
We did call ourselves colonists and pioneers. Zev Jabotinsky is the father of the revisionist Zionism. I grew up in a deeply revisionist household right after the big one wwii. My father and uncle attended camp betar in the 1930’s in Hunter NY. My 2 favorite Jabotinsky quotes are 1 “Jews learn to shoot “ and 2 “Better to have a gun and not need it than to need a gun and not have it”. The Jerusalem Post was known as The Palestine Post. I became a believer very young.
In the US, Liberal for what it used to be is a memory now. I never labeled myself liberal or conservative regarding social policy, etc. I looked at each issue to decide if it aligned with my values and beliefs. The Progressive Woke mentality seems to be, we'll shut your voice down because we have nothing to say to you except to shout our scripted narrative. As for our cowardly politicians, I love Einat Wilf when she said, "The distinction between doing good and feeling good is that our policy makers just want to feel good." She gave examples of politicians talking about a ceasefire, sending humanitarian aid which makes them feel good. The attitudes of the UK, US and others is such that these countries will destroy themselves if they continue on the way they are. The enemy can sit back and watch it happen with glee. Hopefully, they will wake up before it's too late.
Love that quote from Einat!
If we’re throwing links about let me put my 2 cents in here. All time favorite delivered Nov 4, 1923:
https://en.jabotinsky.org/media/9747/the-iron-wall.pdf
Thank you for sharing that document, Kuffr. I had heard it discussed, but had never read it. My only disagreement with Jabotinsky is his frequent referrals to Zionists as ‘colonists’ and to Palestinians as ‘natives’. We know from history that neither label fits, except when viewed through a pro-Palestinian lens. I wonder at his terminology and I wonder at your purpose in sharing what must surely be used, by so-called Liberals among us, to tar and feather the entire Zionist goal.
I found out years ago when I became a committed Catholic - but I am sure the same could be said for others in a similar situation - that the Liberal/Conservative tribal identities are not very helpful. The Catholic Church could be said to be very conservative on some issues, such as abortion and Gay things, I suppose, but to identify with some very liberal positions on others, such as social welfare, and extending opportunity, and tax policy, not to mention many international issues. This lack of L/C tribal polarisation of the Catholic Church is one major reason for it's current problems in the US, but that is another issue and not of course for this forum. It all makes it extremely difficult when it comes to voting, and a nightmare for friends and family to predict my position. I would imagine my current response to the issue of Israel and the war is also giving them plenty of material to reflect on. It is not a way to win friends and influence people! That said, I should add that in my experience the whole Liberal/Conservative divide is much more polarised in the US than it is here in the UK, although that is maybe changing here, alas. Anyway, in spite of it being confusing and even uncomfortable at times, I am happy and proud to say I am neither Liberal nor Conservative. And that makes for some amused relief at last on my part - which is to end on a positive note!
... at least on my part!
Incidentally, folks, if anyone wants to read my moan about kvetching, it is now live on the Times of Israel site:
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/you-wont-want-to-read-this-grumble-moan/
And I don't want any complaints, either!
There is much confusion about the meaning of terms such as liberal, progressive, left, right, capitalism, socialism, etc. Many don't even know the traditional definitions of these terms. Others know the traditional definitions but claim that the definitions have changed with time. Still others know the definitions but misrepresent the terms for political ends.
I would would say that much of the criticism of Israel coming from the left comes from a mostly radical, illiberal (in either sense of the term liberal) minority on the left that is extremely vocal. My guess is that the majority of the left is still mainstream political liberalism and that these people generally support Israel.
Fascinating point, the progressive concept has many such defects - the ability to create an obvious fiction, groom the socially tolerant to accept it or be punished, then use it to confuse the most tolerant people into accepting completely unacceptable behavior.
Embracing the fiction of “white race” grooms large groups of tolerant people to accept attacks on white people is self-defense, punishing those who don’t accept, and then claiming rejection of terrorism is racist. It only requires identifying a group as white makes it acceptable to attack them, the more progressive the more pronounced the defense of the aggressor.
Similarly, embracing “gender” grooms people to accept a man playing a woman is actually female, and rejecting men recruiting women to participate in their sex fantasy is transphobic. The more progressive, the more pronounced the fiction is accepted.
I thought I was a liberal too.
I still consider myself a liberal, even though "lefties" have gone mostly insane. (Don't want to let them define the terms). But I totally agree: we are a tolerant bunch, BUT we cannot tolerate intolerance.