I love how everyone thinks Trump is playing 4 dimensional chess. He is not. Trump promised no more wars. He isn't going to do anything about Iran. He simply wanted to screw Bibi over and used that kapo Wilkof to do it.
I think that Israel has regained a deterrence that they had lost. But we shall see just how long that lasts. Keeping an eye on Iran and Syria is a big job. but I think Israel can do that now. She is in a good position. It is also up to the world to take care of Gaza. Not Israel's problem except to keep killing hamasniks.
As far as the world is concerned, there is no publicity campaign that will support israel. it doesn't matter how many hostages come back in body bags or as shells of themselves.The world hates Jews, they especially hate Jews who won't go quietly to their death. The latest poll on antisemitism shows that. Israel and the world Jewish community need to do what we need to do in order to survive, whether the world likes it or not.
I think he agreed with the plan, it's actually pretty savvy. If they stick with the plan, Bibi won’t be ousted—he’ll be more of a hero than ever before. Be patient. We’ll get some hostages out now (not many) and likely fully neutralize Hezbollah and the Houthis and Iran in the next 40 days—and that will completely and totally isolate Hamas. If they STILL don’t then surrender and release all the hostages, then they all die as Martyrs. I totally believe this. Let's wait and see. This plan buys time to finish off Iran's neutralization, and Trump will likely happily assist in bombing the hell out of the Houthis (they are not part of the "peace" plan). And when all this is over, Israel will be the independent leader and protector of the new Middle East that is coming (a Middle East that will be like the UAE). This has been their plan all along.
I'm less cynical because I've heard what some of Trump's team have been saying the past couple of days in interviews, which is pretty much what I wrote--but they are being very careful not to give the full picture of what is being planned or it will destroy the plan. Tom Cotton today was pretty revealing about it all, actually, but they have to be careful. Not at all. All the terrorists need to think nothing is going to happen for a while, but they are dead wrong. If I'm totally wrong about this, EKB, I'll lose my mind and never post an opinion again, but I really believe this. Israel/Bibi is too smart and adamant about finishing off terror in the Middle East, and you might not agree--but so is Trump (based on lots of statements he made leading up to this, and even 10 years ago when he was running for his first term. There are videos of that speech he gave 10 years ago, by the way. He has been consistent.
I have heard Trumps team. This agreement is just awful. I don’t trust Trump. And as I said I hope you are right and I am wrong. If I am wrong I will write a huge mea culpa, dance a hora, and even apologize to Trump.
Israel did not lose the war, neither did they win. hamas has won in the same sense Rocky won his first fight against Apollo Creed in Rocky I because at the end, although he lost the fight, he was still standing. So in that sense hamas did not surrender though Gaza lies in ruin, hamas still exists and controls Gaza, and thus the victory celebrations in Gaza and among the many brain dead hamas supporters and Israel haters. Do we really care what these imbeciles think? Do we really care that Gazans celebrate "victory" while behind them are buildings and tunnels destroyed? Let them think they won, as if the massive beating they took from the IDF constitutes victory, let them enjoy similar victories. As a result of October 7th and this awful war, Israel demonstated its ability to withstand attacks on multiple fronts, weaken hezbollah, weaken Iran and attack from distance, attack targets in Yemen, and knows it cannot become complacent along its borders. The hamas goal of making every day an October 7th for Israel failed big time. Israel stands strong, hamas failed to repeat October 7th despite their stated goal to make every day an October 7th, and now some hostages will return home.
To save the lives of less than 100 hostages, the cabinet has placed the entire State of Israel and its millions of citizens in peril. This is a terrible deal and the government of Israel failed its people. It should be ashamed of itself. If Israel cut the power and water to Gaza and left them to their own devices, I wonder how much of a victory the Gazans would think they won.
Exactly, to have cut their water and electricity and denied any humanitarian aid would have ended the war quickly. But Israel in its own misguided humanitarianism or fear of defying the depraved, Jew-hating international community unnecessarily put their own troops in peril. Yet, despite prioritizing gazan "civilians" over their own soldiers by using methodical tactics to hunt down terrorists, Israel still had to put up with blood libels, lies and charges of "war crimes" and "genocide", hatred and treated as a pariah state even though it actually had the best record in the history of warfare of avoiding civilian fatalities. And that's with the enemy using them as human shields. Israel should be lauded for its war tactics not condemned.
First of all, we have to bring the hostages back!!
However, we learned a very painful lesson. Now we know exactly who our neighbors are. Islamic death culture. We should not support them in any way. No workers from any direction. No co-operation. No nothing! We tried to be nice with them. Helping them with everything. What did we get in return? A massacre of the worst kind. Even the Cossacks would have blushed. On top of all this, the western world is spitting on us. I will never forget that! In other words, whatever we do, they will blame us anyway. Let’s learn something about it. We need to put the “what will the world say?” stuff in another category. First our security, then everything else.
Despite perpetrating a bloodthirsty Genocide against the Palestinians in Gaza, killing perhaps as many as 200,000 Palestinians. It attained none of its military objectives. As Deroit General Briq said: "Israel didn't harm a hair on Hamas' head".
I think Sinwar, Deif, Haniyeh, and casting farther afield Nasrallah might disagree, since they're, you know, dead. As a result of his fearless wit, Sinwar thought he had us just where he wanted us. A few weeks later, he was less enthused, the hairs on his head having been somewhat disturbed by the sudden lack of three-quarters of his brain. I imagine that Khamenei is now somewhat worried about an oncoming haircut as well.
As for your "genocide" blood libel, I can only say that it vitiates your right to make any argument whatsoever. Have fun in your future life as a scrofulous moral degenerate. Good bye.
A crucial point to keep in mind: the 33 hostages to be released over the next 6 weeks - including as many dead bodies as Hamas judges it can get away with - are all civilians - two babies, women, older men, and two mentally ill civilians who entered Gaza a decade ago - except for five noncombat female teen soldiers.
Let that sink in. Innocent civilians from babies to grandparents and unarmed female IDF border observers, abducted and horribly mistreated for the past 15 months.
The price to “bring them home”?
1) The release of 1900 terrorists from Israeli jails of whom hundreds are convicted murderers, who will most certainly go on to kill again, PLUS
2) withdrawing from certain areas in Gaza, thereby allowing Hamas to reconstitute in these areas, PLUS
3) allowing Gazans to return to northern Gaza where as yet still buried weapons caches await their new masters, and still intact terror tunnels to be reoccupied, PLUS
4) increasing aid flow into Gaza so Hamas can steal even more and further cement their hold on the populace.
And that’s just Phase One.
At what point does the permanent removal of Hamas as a governing and military force occur, thereby allowing for Biden’s vaunted “the day after”?
The incredible success of such civilian abductions - low cost and high reward for the average fanatical jihadist - will only incentivize such hostage taking in the future, both in Israel and around the world. This is simple psychology and should come as no surprise to any rational person. Citizens of other liberal democracies are advised to keep this in mind when contemplating the various nefarious actors who threaten their own countries.
It is truly tragic that minimal effort has gone into finding the proper disincentives to both taking and holding hostages by those to whom martyrdom is not a deterrent either for themselves or their families.
I disagree that any of those "civilian" monsters in Gaza are victims. They support hamas and their October 7 genocide by overwhelming numbers. Thousands of them outright participated in the genocide. They should never have been given aid but instead made to brutally suffer and starve. Even that would not be a fraction of the horrors that Israeli hostages are undoubtedly suffering yet the world does not give a crap. Where was the International Red Cross for the hostages? I don't want to hear one more commentator shedding crocodile tears for the "innocent" "palestinian" barbarians.
"There were actual victims in this war. The individuals terribly ravaged and murdered on October 7th. Many and possibly most of the civilians wounded and killed on the battlefields of Gaza. They had not invited such violence upon themselves."
I don't trust Trump. I also find it hard to believe that the majority of Israelis support this abomination of a "deal". I think the polls are misleading or when the poll was taken people had no idea of the details.
Wait and see. I do trust Trump and he has been consistent in his statements and actions since his first term (all the good he did for Israel in his first term). Just let us wait and see. A little patience while this plays out.
I love how everyone thinks Trump is playing 4 dimensional chess. He is not. Trump promised no more wars. He isn't going to do anything about Iran. He simply wanted to screw Bibi over and used that kapo Wilkof to do it.
I think that Israel has regained a deterrence that they had lost. But we shall see just how long that lasts. Keeping an eye on Iran and Syria is a big job. but I think Israel can do that now. She is in a good position. It is also up to the world to take care of Gaza. Not Israel's problem except to keep killing hamasniks.
As far as the world is concerned, there is no publicity campaign that will support israel. it doesn't matter how many hostages come back in body bags or as shells of themselves.The world hates Jews, they especially hate Jews who won't go quietly to their death. The latest poll on antisemitism shows that. Israel and the world Jewish community need to do what we need to do in order to survive, whether the world likes it or not.
I disagree. Read this: https://www.timesofisrael.com/with-hostage-deal-netanyahu-is-going-all-in-on-trump/
I did read it. Bibi had no choice. He has to do what Trump wants.
I think he agreed with the plan, it's actually pretty savvy. If they stick with the plan, Bibi won’t be ousted—he’ll be more of a hero than ever before. Be patient. We’ll get some hostages out now (not many) and likely fully neutralize Hezbollah and the Houthis and Iran in the next 40 days—and that will completely and totally isolate Hamas. If they STILL don’t then surrender and release all the hostages, then they all die as Martyrs. I totally believe this. Let's wait and see. This plan buys time to finish off Iran's neutralization, and Trump will likely happily assist in bombing the hell out of the Houthis (they are not part of the "peace" plan). And when all this is over, Israel will be the independent leader and protector of the new Middle East that is coming (a Middle East that will be like the UAE). This has been their plan all along.
you are alot less cynical than me. I hope you are right and I am wrong.
I'm less cynical because I've heard what some of Trump's team have been saying the past couple of days in interviews, which is pretty much what I wrote--but they are being very careful not to give the full picture of what is being planned or it will destroy the plan. Tom Cotton today was pretty revealing about it all, actually, but they have to be careful. Not at all. All the terrorists need to think nothing is going to happen for a while, but they are dead wrong. If I'm totally wrong about this, EKB, I'll lose my mind and never post an opinion again, but I really believe this. Israel/Bibi is too smart and adamant about finishing off terror in the Middle East, and you might not agree--but so is Trump (based on lots of statements he made leading up to this, and even 10 years ago when he was running for his first term. There are videos of that speech he gave 10 years ago, by the way. He has been consistent.
I have heard Trumps team. This agreement is just awful. I don’t trust Trump. And as I said I hope you are right and I am wrong. If I am wrong I will write a huge mea culpa, dance a hora, and even apologize to Trump.
I totally get the ambivalence in Israel about this deal. In fact, I feel it myself.
Israel did not lose the war, neither did they win. hamas has won in the same sense Rocky won his first fight against Apollo Creed in Rocky I because at the end, although he lost the fight, he was still standing. So in that sense hamas did not surrender though Gaza lies in ruin, hamas still exists and controls Gaza, and thus the victory celebrations in Gaza and among the many brain dead hamas supporters and Israel haters. Do we really care what these imbeciles think? Do we really care that Gazans celebrate "victory" while behind them are buildings and tunnels destroyed? Let them think they won, as if the massive beating they took from the IDF constitutes victory, let them enjoy similar victories. As a result of October 7th and this awful war, Israel demonstated its ability to withstand attacks on multiple fronts, weaken hezbollah, weaken Iran and attack from distance, attack targets in Yemen, and knows it cannot become complacent along its borders. The hamas goal of making every day an October 7th for Israel failed big time. Israel stands strong, hamas failed to repeat October 7th despite their stated goal to make every day an October 7th, and now some hostages will return home.
Trying to find a silver lining.
Well said. Thank you.
To save the lives of less than 100 hostages, the cabinet has placed the entire State of Israel and its millions of citizens in peril. This is a terrible deal and the government of Israel failed its people. It should be ashamed of itself. If Israel cut the power and water to Gaza and left them to their own devices, I wonder how much of a victory the Gazans would think they won.
Exactly, to have cut their water and electricity and denied any humanitarian aid would have ended the war quickly. But Israel in its own misguided humanitarianism or fear of defying the depraved, Jew-hating international community unnecessarily put their own troops in peril. Yet, despite prioritizing gazan "civilians" over their own soldiers by using methodical tactics to hunt down terrorists, Israel still had to put up with blood libels, lies and charges of "war crimes" and "genocide", hatred and treated as a pariah state even though it actually had the best record in the history of warfare of avoiding civilian fatalities. And that's with the enemy using them as human shields. Israel should be lauded for its war tactics not condemned.
First of all, we have to bring the hostages back!!
However, we learned a very painful lesson. Now we know exactly who our neighbors are. Islamic death culture. We should not support them in any way. No workers from any direction. No co-operation. No nothing! We tried to be nice with them. Helping them with everything. What did we get in return? A massacre of the worst kind. Even the Cossacks would have blushed. On top of all this, the western world is spitting on us. I will never forget that! In other words, whatever we do, they will blame us anyway. Let’s learn something about it. We need to put the “what will the world say?” stuff in another category. First our security, then everything else.
I’m no scholar, but didn’t Israel and the Palestinians have a cease fire agreed upon before October 7?
"alligators all around"--this is also lookin' grim from a broader /global perspective (egads):
https://presentdangerchina.substack.com/p/the-witkoff-biden-hamas-ceasefire?
webinar (completed)
https://presentdangerchina.org/webinar-the-witkoff-biden-hamas-ceasefire/
Despite perpetrating a bloodthirsty Genocide against the Palestinians in Gaza, killing perhaps as many as 200,000 Palestinians. It attained none of its military objectives. As Deroit General Briq said: "Israel didn't harm a hair on Hamas' head".
Hamas is fearless and Witty.
I think Sinwar, Deif, Haniyeh, and casting farther afield Nasrallah might disagree, since they're, you know, dead. As a result of his fearless wit, Sinwar thought he had us just where he wanted us. A few weeks later, he was less enthused, the hairs on his head having been somewhat disturbed by the sudden lack of three-quarters of his brain. I imagine that Khamenei is now somewhat worried about an oncoming haircut as well.
As for your "genocide" blood libel, I can only say that it vitiates your right to make any argument whatsoever. Have fun in your future life as a scrofulous moral degenerate. Good bye.
A crucial point to keep in mind: the 33 hostages to be released over the next 6 weeks - including as many dead bodies as Hamas judges it can get away with - are all civilians - two babies, women, older men, and two mentally ill civilians who entered Gaza a decade ago - except for five noncombat female teen soldiers.
Let that sink in. Innocent civilians from babies to grandparents and unarmed female IDF border observers, abducted and horribly mistreated for the past 15 months.
The price to “bring them home”?
1) The release of 1900 terrorists from Israeli jails of whom hundreds are convicted murderers, who will most certainly go on to kill again, PLUS
2) withdrawing from certain areas in Gaza, thereby allowing Hamas to reconstitute in these areas, PLUS
3) allowing Gazans to return to northern Gaza where as yet still buried weapons caches await their new masters, and still intact terror tunnels to be reoccupied, PLUS
4) increasing aid flow into Gaza so Hamas can steal even more and further cement their hold on the populace.
And that’s just Phase One.
At what point does the permanent removal of Hamas as a governing and military force occur, thereby allowing for Biden’s vaunted “the day after”?
The incredible success of such civilian abductions - low cost and high reward for the average fanatical jihadist - will only incentivize such hostage taking in the future, both in Israel and around the world. This is simple psychology and should come as no surprise to any rational person. Citizens of other liberal democracies are advised to keep this in mind when contemplating the various nefarious actors who threaten their own countries.
It is truly tragic that minimal effort has gone into finding the proper disincentives to both taking and holding hostages by those to whom martyrdom is not a deterrent either for themselves or their families.
I do.
....................................................................................................................
"I do not celebrate the deaths of our enemies"
I disagree that any of those "civilian" monsters in Gaza are victims. They support hamas and their October 7 genocide by overwhelming numbers. Thousands of them outright participated in the genocide. They should never have been given aid but instead made to brutally suffer and starve. Even that would not be a fraction of the horrors that Israeli hostages are undoubtedly suffering yet the world does not give a crap. Where was the International Red Cross for the hostages? I don't want to hear one more commentator shedding crocodile tears for the "innocent" "palestinian" barbarians.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
"There were actual victims in this war. The individuals terribly ravaged and murdered on October 7th. Many and possibly most of the civilians wounded and killed on the battlefields of Gaza. They had not invited such violence upon themselves."
There has to be some other way to kill Hamas without there being an active war. I also am wondering, did we successfully demolish all the tunnels?
before deciding this is a bad deal, read this: https://www.timesofisrael.com/with-hostage-deal-netanyahu-is-going-all-in-on-trump/
I don't trust Trump. I also find it hard to believe that the majority of Israelis support this abomination of a "deal". I think the polls are misleading or when the poll was taken people had no idea of the details.
Wait and see. I do trust Trump and he has been consistent in his statements and actions since his first term (all the good he did for Israel in his first term). Just let us wait and see. A little patience while this plays out.