Who gives a tinker's damn about what these mouthy troglodytes think? Ignore them and concentrate attention on those who wish to physically kill and eradicate Jews. Stop being apologetic for doing that which is required for survival against these Islamic monsters. Remember. Moslems can lose endlessly but Israel can't even lose once. Let that sharpen your thinking.
I seriously doubt that a country like Israel with maybe 150 Atomic bombs and three methods of delivering those munitions including retaliation if struck first has to worry about being overrun by some screaming mass of fanatics. The problem they face is mutual destruction by some cult of death led by some religious fanatic who thinks they are doing Gods work. If that was to happen civilization as we know it would end and that's why Israel such a small country gets coverage like much larger players on the world stage. The game has changed. If Israel goes so goes a large chunk of the world. They have no strategic depth but they do have a force of will that will not allow them to go up the chimney a 2nd time. And I think the foes of Israel know it and fear it.
Regardless how many "atomic bombs" Israel has at Dimones using them at all in the confines of this small region would rebound onto the Jewish state. These days nuclear weapons are symbols of "don't mess with me" and Bibi and the IDF know this. As to a "screaming mass of fanatics" I would suggest looking at the damage human wave attacks can wreak and I've always been surprised that the Islamic terrorists haven't done this because if you have physically enough it is right difficult to kill them fast enough with conventional weapons. I refer you to Chosin Reservoir where my Dad was in '50.
I don't think this schmuck from Coldplay, whatever kind of music that is, is brave in the slightest. Yes, you may be right that a sizeable proportion of the audience might not even regard Israelis or even Jews as humans, but that is why bravery would have required unambiguously rebuffing that nonsense. Instead, he spinelessly slinked between admitting these two fans who were brave enough to come up to him in front of a hostile audience were human and then pivoting to welcome Palestinians. This is not bravery in the slightest. The man is a douche bag and he deserved the finger for the way he addressed his fans.
Right. The prick should have told them to stop booing or walk out. THAT would have been brave. He's no better than the old Jew hater Waters. Funny I saw their big rivals Oasis last week. Not a word that could offend anybody (Except Coldplay fans sinche Liam ridiculed them briefly)
Martin doesn't deserve any credit whatsoever. He starts from the axiom that Israel is a monstrous country that is doing monstrous things to innocent people (Which is certainly what he believes) and told two young girls on stage that he would treat them as human DESPITE where they came from. That would be a worthwile thing if he said that about two people from the murderous Palestinians who act like monsters (Don't say animals. Animals don't act like that) Instead he regards the Palestinians as noble, ignoring reality and tells two young women he will deign to call them human becaus he comes from a place the left has made up the most heinous lies about. Screw him.
I say that this is a great honour to be born Jewish. My Religion, of many races and of one faith, proudly includes the most amazing Scientists, thinkers and intellectuals of all the disciplines, ever to have been placed on this Earth. Super-humans, actually. That is why we feel Chosen to carry the Torch of Light throughout the Nations of the World. Human, absolutely definitely! And Christ himself! Super-human, actually!
About the Israelites decision of choseness: all peoples feel chosen. The Jews got hell for it because Christianity claimed the same choseness, declaring the Jews forsaken by God.
The deeper reason the Israelites created their choseness was their healthy innate psychology, which allowed them to survive. Their reality in Ancient Israel was that, in spite of their cherished covenant with God, they were always being invaded, oppressed, occupied and otherwise raped. Egypt constantly, Assyria, Babylonia, Persia, Greece, Rome and Muslim Arabs of all stripes. Jews always blamed themselves, as per the biblical burden of personal accountability. By the time the Torah was finally compiled, after the Babylonian exile, the notion that in spite of their cherished covenant, their external reality had been so negative, created a compensatory, reassuring balance.God had chosen them for a higher purpose, to be a light, and in so many ways, perhaps inspired by this faith, they so became.
If we look at what God says about "chosen" in the Old Testament it is that the Jews were "chosen" to do ONE thing: Tell the world there is ONE God. Only one. Not multiple gods or pagan gods. One god. That was it.
Certainly all peoples are Chosen, as you say. Just to have made it to planet Earth is special. What makes Jews special however is the Idea that all humans are special and of as you say Higher Purpose. This radical idea we took around the World, whether there is a G-d or not. Unique to the Jews? Probably not. Plato said the same 700 BCE. But the Jews, uniquely, militarised our Language and Culture with this Idea, and survived till the present day with such. An Amazing success story, and cleverly done. Resentment of this idea has mobilised Genocide against us. But we are still here, and shall remain so. Am Israel Chai.
Dear Ted - a very thought provoking essay - thank you.
Of course the very opposite is true - Jewish morality has been seeped into life for thousands of years. Jewish religion asks you always to make Teshuvah - to be the best person that you can and repent when you know you've harmed another person.
These so called pundits know nothing about the middle east and the suffering raining down on Israelis every day of the week - running to bomb shelters - having menacing evil Jihadist theocracies on every side.
If they ever went to Israel they would realise they had steeped into the most beautiful country in the world. Just a tiny strip of land - through hard work and resilience turned from a Malaria swamp land to the Garden of Eden
….. only to brainless idiots like this pop singer . Anybody with a brain knows there would be no western civilisation , without its Judeo-Christian foundations.
Ted Goldstein, great article but I think you got it wrong about Chris Martin. He wasn't declaring that the Israeli girls are human to counteract an audience who might think otherwise, he was granting it to them, as if he is in a position to do so. He was taken aback by their being Israeli, and started shucking and jiving onstage because he was so uncomfortable having to deal with Israeli's. Then the both sides - ing of his shout out to Palestine. Wow. His comments were not, in my mind, a reminder to think of Israeli's and Jews as humans, but a barely begrudging acknowledgment.
He had an instinctive leftist ignorant reaction. I would’ve been insulted. I don’t need to be acknowledged as human. He wouldn’t do this to Russian people or Chinese people. It’s anti semitic double standard evil libelous propaganda. It counts on submission and conformity the last thing these “artists” think they do or are. Is this the worst thing in the world? No. At least he didn’t out their secret lives.
Chris Martin wasn’t ‘brave’, what he was, was insulting and demeaning. What the bloody hell, ‘we recognise you as humans’. Well thank you Chris for recognising that we are indeed humans! Had he said this about any other ethnic group all hell would have broken lose, the fact that this pop star engages in such tripe says how wide and excepted Jew hatred has come. The fact that his ex-wife and two children are Jewish make this even more pathetic. Your take is entirely wrong. For the right take read Eve Barlow’s piece: https://evebarlow.substack.com/p/dear-chris-martin?publication_id=704503&utm_campaign=email-post-title&r=7eeax&utm_medium=email
How convenient to openly hate and murder Jews again
Wanna bet it wlll play weeks of packed audiences at Film Forum. A large number of progressive anti Zionists Jews plus communist post Jews in attendance to wallow in ashamed Jewishness.
You think any Italian American. Robert De Niro is renouncing His heritage due to Meloni?
I do not think that this man who is 83 years old and has recently fathered a child should be used as a positive example of anything for this very selfish act.
The problem with certain members of the Christian faith is that they worship a person who was born Jewish ,lived a Jewish life and died as a Jew. Never claimed to be a God and in his own way was some sort of social reformer. This galls certain people and is the root cause of antisemitic behavior. Its a undercurrent of European culture because these same people cannot reconcile the fact that if they are the inheritors of the Jewish faith, why are the Jews still around as a dynamic religion and not shut away in some museum display as Hitler wanted to do? Its a conundrum that periodically expresses itself in violence. Add to this the growing irreverence of European culture on the rest of the world especially in third world Asian and African countries its causes a growing fear in both the right and left wings of European governments. This adds fuel to the fire of Antisemitic acts.
No doubt many, most sadly, will ignore what I have to say. But I’ll say it anyway because telling the truth isn’t supposed to be easy or get you applauded. Currently with the tide of global opinion turning ever against Israel, the clock is ticking to win over those in the centre who are seeing the Left embrace Hamas but who are also seeing a pro-Israel movement that is retreating more and more into a Jewish only space, where “gentiles/goy” are tolerated only when they agree with Jews. I have been attacked a great many times merely for pushing back on sneering racial and religious supremacism. If Zionism means caring only for the good of 6 million people out of 8 billion, then good luck, you’ll need it. It doesn’t need to be that way.
Oy vey. Your last paragraph gives you away as holding many of those Jew-hating notions you are not even aware of. You find them natural.
First, information.
Israel is a Goy. Goy means Nation. The way to speak of other nations objectively was to call them by the plural " goyim". It is as " separatist" as saying " peoples of the world".
Second, Zionism means the return to Zion, Jerusalem, Israel, and the " self-evident"(!) human right of the Jewish Goy ( Nation) to self-determination. It does NOT mean responsibility for the 8 billion other goyim of the world.
Third, some numbers: today, because of all the annihilating events suffered by the Jews over millennia, there are not just 6 million Jews, thank God ( that is the amount of Jews murdered by the Nazis with European complicity) , but 15 million, a dismal amount, compared to what a normal reproductive rate would have entailed. There are over 8 million Jews in Israel. The rest are still dispersed, and today, newly persecuted.
Lastly, the implied charge that the Jews care only about their people, an old trope of anti-Jewish sentiment, is provenly false. Jews have contributed in any possible good way to all civilization. At the same time, they were commanded from their deepest religious roots , shared to the wide world by Christians, to care for and love their neighbor as themselves. As neighbor, it first means their own: their families, communities, villages. And so they have done. You should do too, and include human Jews in your new care.
I fear this will turn into a long and unproductive back and forth. I will try and answer your points briefly.
1)Words have meanings in different contexts. If you deny that the word Gentile or Goy cannot be used in an exclusionary and derisory way, in the same way that Jew can, I have no answer but to accept my word as a Goy that it can be, as I would accept the other way around.
2/3)Yes, I know what Zionism means. I am saying if it becomes the exclusive province of Jewish Israelis, it will be in great danger. I will clarify that I was using 6 million to refer to the six million odd Jews living in Israel as commonly defined.
4)I did not imply and do not believe I can reasonably read to imply that I think Jews as a group do not care about non-Jews. Some Jews do not, like some of every group doesn’t. I do not share the view that the Jews are exceptional in this regard or any other. I fear this group is growing in certain Zionist circles, which I hope reverses course,
Israelis or Jews don't vilify the rest of the world.
The " context" is dangerous. Former Harvard President stated in a Congressional hearing that student calling for a new holocaust of the Jews " depends on the context". Verbatim.
Zionist is a neutral term. Sorry it is not so for you. Israel exists and will prevail. The time for debating its right to exist is over. Its present government may be appalling, but it was democratically elected and will be democratically voted up or down, an exception in the entire Middle East , including the Palestinian fraud and the corrupt PA. There are millions of Zionist Christians supporting and helping Israel. And as always, there is the silent as yet uncounted crowd of " people of good will" of decent common sense who are sick of the charade of pretexts for Jew-hatred, the result of a weak West who has been duped by Qatar and Iran, corrupted by its gold, and lust for influence.
The last thing you should do is blame the Jews in any way for the indecency of what we witness, so shockingly, today.
Please believe me, your support for Jews/Israel is GREATLY appreciated by the majority of us. In Israel, Christians are welcome, churches are protected, tours are set up to visit Christian holy sites. Entire organizations exist to bring Jews and Christians closer together. Some Jews, unfortunately, deeply distrust Christians based on history, (but that is receding). My own grandmother, who witnessed her father brutalized during a pogrom in her little Russian village, was petrified when I married a non-Jew. She was deathly afraid of Christians and she truly feared for my life. It takes a generation or two for that kind of fear/distrust to recede.
And its the only country in the Middle east that has a stabile and even a slightly growing Christian population. The Gaza strip has a Christian population of less then 2,000 fr0m ahigh of about 20,000 before Hamas came in and took over. Since 1940 Lebanon has lost about one third of its Christian population. In Egypt to this day the Christian Copts that make up 10% of the Egyptian population are heavily discriminated against. In Syria the Christian population in the last thirteen years went from 1.5 million to 300,000 thousand today. Yes there is a war against the Jews by certain factions of the Arab world. But those same factions are also getting rid of their Christian Arabs. Why is not the Western press covering this more fully? I think its also because it does not want to address the reality of blatant anti Jewish and anti Christian hate because it does not fit the popular narrative of "only Jewish hate".
I don’t agree with that at all. If you say gentiles are only tolerated when they agree with Jews you’re essentially saying Jews can’t disagree with gentiles without being intolerant. That’s ridiculous. Also there are dealbreakers. If someone celebrated October 7th as resistance most Jews will not find common ground there nor should they. No jew is obligated for any reason to tolerate someone who supports a fascist barbaric theocracy that rapes burns kidnaps mutilates and spent their foreign aid money on a tunnel system they wouldn’t even let their own people camp out in when it became necessary.
The binary you’re with us or you’re against us does exist on fundamental points. Where there is more nuance there can be discussion.
I simply want disagreements to be civil and non-exclusionary between people of goodwill. Hamas supporters are not such people. I have never once expressed such a view. I have criticised elements of the Jewish religious narrative I find silly and particularly proponents of these views who I find arrogant and stupid. One should be able to support Israel as a tolerant democracy without buying into the Biblical fables.
That may be so but perhaps and not surprisingly is it not a natural reaction to the tsunami of opprobrium that has descended not only on Israel but Israelis and Jews in general? This is surely a self defence mechanism to protect and maintain one’s persona.
I’ll be blunt, because I believe it’s warranted. It might be understandable but it is in no way excusable. Retreating into a siege mentality will end the same way as Masada, a mass suicide. Some may think it is better to die ‘proudly’ than live by compromising a perceived purity. They are fools and they will drag everyone else down with them. if they can.
Israel does not have a department of international relations or propaganda. The current coalition doesn't care what the world thinks. Hamas on the other hand work 24/7 on propaganda and mount successful campaigns. The starvation campaign was very successful. Israel just fearcely defends itself. Interesting enough, I don't remember Hamas ever denying anything, but they are winning the pr war. I am not diminishing the systemic anti-semiticism in the word, but just saying that it is not true, isn't enough. I was just wondering why the Hamas videos on Oct 7th were never released. The people we want to see them,won't go to an exhibit of them. If it is because we want to protect the families, I understand completely. We don't want to make it worse then it already is for them. In an age of misinformation and social media, we must be stronger.
Winning the PR war because so much of the world is inclined to believe them appalingly. There is no way for Israel to win this war when media writes every lie from Hamas as fact and questions everything the IDF says and ignores evidence in favor of a pre-conceived narrative. The mistake Israel made is letting this go on for so long by being as humane as possible. If you look back every single solitary clash with the Palestinians since 1994 has gone the exact same way in the media. There was no way to prevent it. The leftist Nazis were out with the Muslims tearing down posters on October 8.
It is surely rather strong to refer to this group as fools - it is extremely difficult to respond and defend against the torrent of hatred and this is most certainly not aided by the extremely unprofessional push back from the Israelis. In fact it is exacerbated by the crass comments of the extremists in the Israeli government. Having said that you are not wrong - we have to find a way to resist and push back if only to retain our sense of self.
Defending against hate is one thing, I absolutely agree that the pro-Hamas barbarians need to be pushed back on. It’s everyone else that should be treated carefully, including those with radically different perspectives. I do understand that it’s hard.
People don’t wear emblems that indicate what their position on issues are unfortunately. And, as Mr. Martin pointed out, we are human, just human and nothing more. Some of us are doing as you suggest, others are in an aggressive crouch while others are already in full retreat. There are too many ghosts at work here to expect any sort of unified response from the Jewish community. It simply cannot happen.
In that case, my only suggestion is that people be treated well until they prove themselves unworthy of it. If all dissent is attacked like a lethal strike, friends will be even fewer to come by.
Some of these people who parrot the ideas of others are in effect giving up critical thinking when it comes to public displays of anti Israeli/anti Jewish outbursts. The idea that you can convince them or turn them around to a more logical examination of the facts is a waste of time. They are in almost all cases not only dumb and ill informed but they glory in that ignorance as a ticket to greater social acceptance. We have to go it alone as a people because if our history proves anything, as a religion and people is that when push comes to shove we are either our own worst enemy or that a united people that has a history as long as ours can beat back ignorance and violence and still prosper. Jews will survive long after many of its foes are little more then dust in the wind if past history is any indication of our resilience.
To the Brits, we've always been "that shitty little country." Nothing new here. Keep walking. (As France's Ambassador to the UK, Daniel Bernard, stated at a private dinner party (of course), blaming Israel - again - for all the world's problems.
The Euros have always been willing to sacrifice Jews to appease evil. They didn't learn from WW2 that sacrificing their Jewish populations did not ensure their own safety but led to horrific calamity for themselves. They learn nothing from their own history. I don't care how many holocaust museums they have and spare me their once-a-year holocaust commemorations. None of that amounts to shit while they are complicit with modern day nazis. The irony is totally lost on them. If they really wanted to make amends they would be backing Israel to the hilt.
Who gives a tinker's damn about what these mouthy troglodytes think? Ignore them and concentrate attention on those who wish to physically kill and eradicate Jews. Stop being apologetic for doing that which is required for survival against these Islamic monsters. Remember. Moslems can lose endlessly but Israel can't even lose once. Let that sharpen your thinking.
I seriously doubt that a country like Israel with maybe 150 Atomic bombs and three methods of delivering those munitions including retaliation if struck first has to worry about being overrun by some screaming mass of fanatics. The problem they face is mutual destruction by some cult of death led by some religious fanatic who thinks they are doing Gods work. If that was to happen civilization as we know it would end and that's why Israel such a small country gets coverage like much larger players on the world stage. The game has changed. If Israel goes so goes a large chunk of the world. They have no strategic depth but they do have a force of will that will not allow them to go up the chimney a 2nd time. And I think the foes of Israel know it and fear it.
Regardless how many "atomic bombs" Israel has at Dimones using them at all in the confines of this small region would rebound onto the Jewish state. These days nuclear weapons are symbols of "don't mess with me" and Bibi and the IDF know this. As to a "screaming mass of fanatics" I would suggest looking at the damage human wave attacks can wreak and I've always been surprised that the Islamic terrorists haven't done this because if you have physically enough it is right difficult to kill them fast enough with conventional weapons. I refer you to Chosin Reservoir where my Dad was in '50.
I don't think this schmuck from Coldplay, whatever kind of music that is, is brave in the slightest. Yes, you may be right that a sizeable proportion of the audience might not even regard Israelis or even Jews as humans, but that is why bravery would have required unambiguously rebuffing that nonsense. Instead, he spinelessly slinked between admitting these two fans who were brave enough to come up to him in front of a hostile audience were human and then pivoting to welcome Palestinians. This is not bravery in the slightest. The man is a douche bag and he deserved the finger for the way he addressed his fans.
Right. The prick should have told them to stop booing or walk out. THAT would have been brave. He's no better than the old Jew hater Waters. Funny I saw their big rivals Oasis last week. Not a word that could offend anybody (Except Coldplay fans sinche Liam ridiculed them briefly)
He should’ve said, “welcome to the UK. Hope you enjoy our concert.” Pretty simple.
Martin doesn't deserve any credit whatsoever. He starts from the axiom that Israel is a monstrous country that is doing monstrous things to innocent people (Which is certainly what he believes) and told two young girls on stage that he would treat them as human DESPITE where they came from. That would be a worthwile thing if he said that about two people from the murderous Palestinians who act like monsters (Don't say animals. Animals don't act like that) Instead he regards the Palestinians as noble, ignoring reality and tells two young women he will deign to call them human becaus he comes from a place the left has made up the most heinous lies about. Screw him.
I say that this is a great honour to be born Jewish. My Religion, of many races and of one faith, proudly includes the most amazing Scientists, thinkers and intellectuals of all the disciplines, ever to have been placed on this Earth. Super-humans, actually. That is why we feel Chosen to carry the Torch of Light throughout the Nations of the World. Human, absolutely definitely! And Christ himself! Super-human, actually!
About the Israelites decision of choseness: all peoples feel chosen. The Jews got hell for it because Christianity claimed the same choseness, declaring the Jews forsaken by God.
The deeper reason the Israelites created their choseness was their healthy innate psychology, which allowed them to survive. Their reality in Ancient Israel was that, in spite of their cherished covenant with God, they were always being invaded, oppressed, occupied and otherwise raped. Egypt constantly, Assyria, Babylonia, Persia, Greece, Rome and Muslim Arabs of all stripes. Jews always blamed themselves, as per the biblical burden of personal accountability. By the time the Torah was finally compiled, after the Babylonian exile, the notion that in spite of their cherished covenant, their external reality had been so negative, created a compensatory, reassuring balance.God had chosen them for a higher purpose, to be a light, and in so many ways, perhaps inspired by this faith, they so became.
If we look at what God says about "chosen" in the Old Testament it is that the Jews were "chosen" to do ONE thing: Tell the world there is ONE God. Only one. Not multiple gods or pagan gods. One god. That was it.
Certainly all peoples are Chosen, as you say. Just to have made it to planet Earth is special. What makes Jews special however is the Idea that all humans are special and of as you say Higher Purpose. This radical idea we took around the World, whether there is a G-d or not. Unique to the Jews? Probably not. Plato said the same 700 BCE. But the Jews, uniquely, militarised our Language and Culture with this Idea, and survived till the present day with such. An Amazing success story, and cleverly done. Resentment of this idea has mobilised Genocide against us. But we are still here, and shall remain so. Am Israel Chai.
Dear Ted - a very thought provoking essay - thank you.
Of course the very opposite is true - Jewish morality has been seeped into life for thousands of years. Jewish religion asks you always to make Teshuvah - to be the best person that you can and repent when you know you've harmed another person.
These so called pundits know nothing about the middle east and the suffering raining down on Israelis every day of the week - running to bomb shelters - having menacing evil Jihadist theocracies on every side.
If they ever went to Israel they would realise they had steeped into the most beautiful country in the world. Just a tiny strip of land - through hard work and resilience turned from a Malaria swamp land to the Garden of Eden
….. only to brainless idiots like this pop singer . Anybody with a brain knows there would be no western civilisation , without its Judeo-Christian foundations.
Ted Goldstein, great article but I think you got it wrong about Chris Martin. He wasn't declaring that the Israeli girls are human to counteract an audience who might think otherwise, he was granting it to them, as if he is in a position to do so. He was taken aback by their being Israeli, and started shucking and jiving onstage because he was so uncomfortable having to deal with Israeli's. Then the both sides - ing of his shout out to Palestine. Wow. His comments were not, in my mind, a reminder to think of Israeli's and Jews as humans, but a barely begrudging acknowledgment.
He had an instinctive leftist ignorant reaction. I would’ve been insulted. I don’t need to be acknowledged as human. He wouldn’t do this to Russian people or Chinese people. It’s anti semitic double standard evil libelous propaganda. It counts on submission and conformity the last thing these “artists” think they do or are. Is this the worst thing in the world? No. At least he didn’t out their secret lives.
Chris Martin wasn’t ‘brave’, what he was, was insulting and demeaning. What the bloody hell, ‘we recognise you as humans’. Well thank you Chris for recognising that we are indeed humans! Had he said this about any other ethnic group all hell would have broken lose, the fact that this pop star engages in such tripe says how wide and excepted Jew hatred has come. The fact that his ex-wife and two children are Jewish make this even more pathetic. Your take is entirely wrong. For the right take read Eve Barlow’s piece: https://evebarlow.substack.com/p/dear-chris-martin?publication_id=704503&utm_campaign=email-post-title&r=7eeax&utm_medium=email
Yes afraid
Europe is officially morally bankrupt
How convenient to openly hate and murder Jews again
Wanna bet it wlll play weeks of packed audiences at Film Forum. A large number of progressive anti Zionists Jews plus communist post Jews in attendance to wallow in ashamed Jewishness.
You think any Italian American. Robert De Niro is renouncing His heritage due to Meloni?
Particular Jewish sickness
I do not think that this man who is 83 years old and has recently fathered a child should be used as a positive example of anything for this very selfish act.
The problem with certain members of the Christian faith is that they worship a person who was born Jewish ,lived a Jewish life and died as a Jew. Never claimed to be a God and in his own way was some sort of social reformer. This galls certain people and is the root cause of antisemitic behavior. Its a undercurrent of European culture because these same people cannot reconcile the fact that if they are the inheritors of the Jewish faith, why are the Jews still around as a dynamic religion and not shut away in some museum display as Hitler wanted to do? Its a conundrum that periodically expresses itself in violence. Add to this the growing irreverence of European culture on the rest of the world especially in third world Asian and African countries its causes a growing fear in both the right and left wings of European governments. This adds fuel to the fire of Antisemitic acts.
It's all right. Dad's sending His Messiah, soon. He'll have the last laugh… Psalm 2
No doubt many, most sadly, will ignore what I have to say. But I’ll say it anyway because telling the truth isn’t supposed to be easy or get you applauded. Currently with the tide of global opinion turning ever against Israel, the clock is ticking to win over those in the centre who are seeing the Left embrace Hamas but who are also seeing a pro-Israel movement that is retreating more and more into a Jewish only space, where “gentiles/goy” are tolerated only when they agree with Jews. I have been attacked a great many times merely for pushing back on sneering racial and religious supremacism. If Zionism means caring only for the good of 6 million people out of 8 billion, then good luck, you’ll need it. It doesn’t need to be that way.
Oy vey. Your last paragraph gives you away as holding many of those Jew-hating notions you are not even aware of. You find them natural.
First, information.
Israel is a Goy. Goy means Nation. The way to speak of other nations objectively was to call them by the plural " goyim". It is as " separatist" as saying " peoples of the world".
Second, Zionism means the return to Zion, Jerusalem, Israel, and the " self-evident"(!) human right of the Jewish Goy ( Nation) to self-determination. It does NOT mean responsibility for the 8 billion other goyim of the world.
Third, some numbers: today, because of all the annihilating events suffered by the Jews over millennia, there are not just 6 million Jews, thank God ( that is the amount of Jews murdered by the Nazis with European complicity) , but 15 million, a dismal amount, compared to what a normal reproductive rate would have entailed. There are over 8 million Jews in Israel. The rest are still dispersed, and today, newly persecuted.
Lastly, the implied charge that the Jews care only about their people, an old trope of anti-Jewish sentiment, is provenly false. Jews have contributed in any possible good way to all civilization. At the same time, they were commanded from their deepest religious roots , shared to the wide world by Christians, to care for and love their neighbor as themselves. As neighbor, it first means their own: their families, communities, villages. And so they have done. You should do too, and include human Jews in your new care.
I fear this will turn into a long and unproductive back and forth. I will try and answer your points briefly.
1)Words have meanings in different contexts. If you deny that the word Gentile or Goy cannot be used in an exclusionary and derisory way, in the same way that Jew can, I have no answer but to accept my word as a Goy that it can be, as I would accept the other way around.
2/3)Yes, I know what Zionism means. I am saying if it becomes the exclusive province of Jewish Israelis, it will be in great danger. I will clarify that I was using 6 million to refer to the six million odd Jews living in Israel as commonly defined.
4)I did not imply and do not believe I can reasonably read to imply that I think Jews as a group do not care about non-Jews. Some Jews do not, like some of every group doesn’t. I do not share the view that the Jews are exceptional in this regard or any other. I fear this group is growing in certain Zionist circles, which I hope reverses course,
Israelis or Jews don't vilify the rest of the world.
The " context" is dangerous. Former Harvard President stated in a Congressional hearing that student calling for a new holocaust of the Jews " depends on the context". Verbatim.
Zionist is a neutral term. Sorry it is not so for you. Israel exists and will prevail. The time for debating its right to exist is over. Its present government may be appalling, but it was democratically elected and will be democratically voted up or down, an exception in the entire Middle East , including the Palestinian fraud and the corrupt PA. There are millions of Zionist Christians supporting and helping Israel. And as always, there is the silent as yet uncounted crowd of " people of good will" of decent common sense who are sick of the charade of pretexts for Jew-hatred, the result of a weak West who has been duped by Qatar and Iran, corrupted by its gold, and lust for influence.
The last thing you should do is blame the Jews in any way for the indecency of what we witness, so shockingly, today.
I don’t and would never blame “the Jews”. I might blame certain Jews for certain specific things that they are doing.
Please believe me, your support for Jews/Israel is GREATLY appreciated by the majority of us. In Israel, Christians are welcome, churches are protected, tours are set up to visit Christian holy sites. Entire organizations exist to bring Jews and Christians closer together. Some Jews, unfortunately, deeply distrust Christians based on history, (but that is receding). My own grandmother, who witnessed her father brutalized during a pogrom in her little Russian village, was petrified when I married a non-Jew. She was deathly afraid of Christians and she truly feared for my life. It takes a generation or two for that kind of fear/distrust to recede.
Israel appreciates it's gentile supporters much more than Disaspora Jews seem to.
And its the only country in the Middle east that has a stabile and even a slightly growing Christian population. The Gaza strip has a Christian population of less then 2,000 fr0m ahigh of about 20,000 before Hamas came in and took over. Since 1940 Lebanon has lost about one third of its Christian population. In Egypt to this day the Christian Copts that make up 10% of the Egyptian population are heavily discriminated against. In Syria the Christian population in the last thirteen years went from 1.5 million to 300,000 thousand today. Yes there is a war against the Jews by certain factions of the Arab world. But those same factions are also getting rid of their Christian Arabs. Why is not the Western press covering this more fully? I think its also because it does not want to address the reality of blatant anti Jewish and anti Christian hate because it does not fit the popular narrative of "only Jewish hate".
spot on.
Thank you very much, kind words are appreciated. I should note that I am not Christian.
I don’t agree with that at all. If you say gentiles are only tolerated when they agree with Jews you’re essentially saying Jews can’t disagree with gentiles without being intolerant. That’s ridiculous. Also there are dealbreakers. If someone celebrated October 7th as resistance most Jews will not find common ground there nor should they. No jew is obligated for any reason to tolerate someone who supports a fascist barbaric theocracy that rapes burns kidnaps mutilates and spent their foreign aid money on a tunnel system they wouldn’t even let their own people camp out in when it became necessary.
The binary you’re with us or you’re against us does exist on fundamental points. Where there is more nuance there can be discussion.
I simply want disagreements to be civil and non-exclusionary between people of goodwill. Hamas supporters are not such people. I have never once expressed such a view. I have criticised elements of the Jewish religious narrative I find silly and particularly proponents of these views who I find arrogant and stupid. One should be able to support Israel as a tolerant democracy without buying into the Biblical fables.
We must never retreat into a Jewish only space. Our greatest and most vital allies are gentiles.
That may be so but perhaps and not surprisingly is it not a natural reaction to the tsunami of opprobrium that has descended not only on Israel but Israelis and Jews in general? This is surely a self defence mechanism to protect and maintain one’s persona.
I’ll be blunt, because I believe it’s warranted. It might be understandable but it is in no way excusable. Retreating into a siege mentality will end the same way as Masada, a mass suicide. Some may think it is better to die ‘proudly’ than live by compromising a perceived purity. They are fools and they will drag everyone else down with them. if they can.
Israel does not have a department of international relations or propaganda. The current coalition doesn't care what the world thinks. Hamas on the other hand work 24/7 on propaganda and mount successful campaigns. The starvation campaign was very successful. Israel just fearcely defends itself. Interesting enough, I don't remember Hamas ever denying anything, but they are winning the pr war. I am not diminishing the systemic anti-semiticism in the word, but just saying that it is not true, isn't enough. I was just wondering why the Hamas videos on Oct 7th were never released. The people we want to see them,won't go to an exhibit of them. If it is because we want to protect the families, I understand completely. We don't want to make it worse then it already is for them. In an age of misinformation and social media, we must be stronger.
Winning the PR war because so much of the world is inclined to believe them appalingly. There is no way for Israel to win this war when media writes every lie from Hamas as fact and questions everything the IDF says and ignores evidence in favor of a pre-conceived narrative. The mistake Israel made is letting this go on for so long by being as humane as possible. If you look back every single solitary clash with the Palestinians since 1994 has gone the exact same way in the media. There was no way to prevent it. The leftist Nazis were out with the Muslims tearing down posters on October 8.
It is surely rather strong to refer to this group as fools - it is extremely difficult to respond and defend against the torrent of hatred and this is most certainly not aided by the extremely unprofessional push back from the Israelis. In fact it is exacerbated by the crass comments of the extremists in the Israeli government. Having said that you are not wrong - we have to find a way to resist and push back if only to retain our sense of self.
Defending against hate is one thing, I absolutely agree that the pro-Hamas barbarians need to be pushed back on. It’s everyone else that should be treated carefully, including those with radically different perspectives. I do understand that it’s hard.
People don’t wear emblems that indicate what their position on issues are unfortunately. And, as Mr. Martin pointed out, we are human, just human and nothing more. Some of us are doing as you suggest, others are in an aggressive crouch while others are already in full retreat. There are too many ghosts at work here to expect any sort of unified response from the Jewish community. It simply cannot happen.
In that case, my only suggestion is that people be treated well until they prove themselves unworthy of it. If all dissent is attacked like a lethal strike, friends will be even fewer to come by.
Some of these people who parrot the ideas of others are in effect giving up critical thinking when it comes to public displays of anti Israeli/anti Jewish outbursts. The idea that you can convince them or turn them around to a more logical examination of the facts is a waste of time. They are in almost all cases not only dumb and ill informed but they glory in that ignorance as a ticket to greater social acceptance. We have to go it alone as a people because if our history proves anything, as a religion and people is that when push comes to shove we are either our own worst enemy or that a united people that has a history as long as ours can beat back ignorance and violence and still prosper. Jews will survive long after many of its foes are little more then dust in the wind if past history is any indication of our resilience.
To the Brits, we've always been "that shitty little country." Nothing new here. Keep walking. (As France's Ambassador to the UK, Daniel Bernard, stated at a private dinner party (of course), blaming Israel - again - for all the world's problems.
The Euros have always been willing to sacrifice Jews to appease evil. They didn't learn from WW2 that sacrificing their Jewish populations did not ensure their own safety but led to horrific calamity for themselves. They learn nothing from their own history. I don't care how many holocaust museums they have and spare me their once-a-year holocaust commemorations. None of that amounts to shit while they are complicit with modern day nazis. The irony is totally lost on them. If they really wanted to make amends they would be backing Israel to the hilt.
Britain and France are shitty little countries, and dying ones at that.
Are Gazans human? Asking for a friend.
Yes. Very evil humans (Either evil or indoctrinated with evil but of course human. Hitler was human.)