Far-Right Israelis want the Jewish state to have sovereignty over Gaza and Judea and Samaria (aka the West Bank). They think this is the path to security and peace. It is worth analyzing their case.
Learn from history. Do not give your enemies the means to attack you. Show them no mercy and destroy them. There will never be any chance of peace when you are dealing with Muslim fanatics.
Israel cannot give one inch for a piece of paper saying “peace.” Only nation ever to win land in wars of attack by enemies, Israel fighting in defense only, forced to give it back.
I don't understand how you can write an article and ignore the elephant in the room. What happens to the Palestinians? Do they become citizens? If not, then you're talking about Israel doing something unprecedented and becoming a rogue state. With catastrophic ramifications for security.
I see the only lasting viable solution is for Israel to ultimately declare sovereignty in the disputed territories and create a security barrier in southern Lebanon, and do so unapologetically and when fully prepared militarily for the reaction. Those who want a chance at real life and to coexist with Jews in a Jewish state can stay; those who want eternal war and advocate for Jewish genocide will be deported (including those who already have Israeli citizenship). No sympathy; no angst. They’ve had plenty of opportunities which they’ve determinedly squandered. Our resolve to survive (strength) has to beat their blood lust to destroy us (hate), and without guilt.
What other country on the planet would tolerate, and even enable, such an undeniable threat to its very existence? Maybe Iran, France, and the UK will take them as they seem to be their biggest supporters.
I identify as an unapologetic realist, not a “fringe quack.”
"Deradicalization, something akin to what happened with the de-Nazification of Germany after World War Two, is a multi-generational project."
De-Nazification was possible because one could reject the goals and principles of Nazism and still be a patriot. Islam is a different matter. In Islam, religion and governance are inextricably intertwined. The Quran and the Hadiths make it an article of faith that any land that once came under their control forever remained Islamic territory. Furthermore, it teaches that anyone who is not Muslim is kufar and at best to be treated as a degraded, second class person (they are not citizens), or at worst, if they refuse to convert, to be slaughtered. Asking Muslims to give up these core beliefs is asking them to imperil heir soul to eternal damnation. The de=radicalization of nazism does not apply here and is a mistake to think it will because no religion is willing to rewrite its sacred texts.
This is a thoughtful essay worth careful consideration and adoption. I'm admittedly a newcomer to this topic and discussion, but one thing seems blindingly clear from a military perspective (which I have): Israel should 're-annex" Judea/Samaria/Gaza to the boundaries after the 1967 War. Their outlines on a map are like cancers in a body given the current leadership of these areas supports the 1988 Hamas Covenant. It's an odd situation that doesn't allow the victor of a war to determine boundaries gained due to that war. No one asks Europe or the U.S. to re-align any of their numerous pre-war(s) national boundaries.
To civil/peace-loving Palestine Arabs currently living in those areas they are welcome to stay; or the Jihadists may emigrate to the Arab state of their choice.
Now we've arrived at the hard parts. One approach might be to grant temporary status with the possibility of citizenship after 10 years. I'm not qualified to say much regarding any 'plan' but it seems to me the voting question is more difficult.
I'm for whatever makes sense. Your line about Israel does not need to be loved, it needs to be secure -- totally. My one trepidation with incorporating Gaza and Judea / Samaria is you then incorporates millions of Palestinians into the country, and they will vote. How do you keep Israel the Jewish state it is meant to be?
Thank you. Here are a few thoughts meant to provoke but not meant to aggravate. How do you and/or how does one define "Palestinians"? Personally, during this crisis period of the last several years I no longer use the term "Palestinians" with ease. I prefer to write and converse around that '4-letter word' because it, like the terms 'liberal' and 'woke' have come to commonly have new, more recent meanings. If necessary instead I use "so-called 'palestinians' ". How does "Palestinian" differ from Arab-Israeli? "Palestinian" implies more often than not a Jihad foundation and even tends to overwhelm 'palestinians' who are not Muslim. It is certainly well known that approximately 25% of "Palestinians" and/or so-called palestinians are Jewish heritage persons. One investigator has long been in the process to prove that statistic but has found that the percentage of Jewish heritage "Palestinians" is much higher than 25%. Rabbi M.M.Schneerson advised every Israeli Prime Minister and prime mover/macher of Israel to not give up one inch of land and with particular emphasis that any land acquired via combatting incoming foreign military assaults. Although several Prime Ministers when interviewed just after meeting with R. Schneerson noted openly that they were shocked by the Rabbi's detailed knowledge of Military Strategy as well as the particular details of the State of Israel's then current situations. R. Schneerson aka the Lubavitch Rebbe was clear that the Jewish People and Jewish persons need in the first place, as a Foundation - towards all things good including peace i.e. the stability of peace - to "live with the Times". Times implying living with knowledge, study, guidance, communication about the weekly Parasha (weekly chronological portion of the Torah). Presumably the so-called 'religious far right' are basing their viewpoints on Torah and the interpretation of Torah and application in our Times. I'm a VERY late learner, but, gradually I am learning how to do preliminary basic study of the weekly Parasha and use only appropriate Jewish sources/books/teachers (primarily online; and via a bit of daily Practice) - and it becomes a bit apparent that the Torah including its study and practices is the most reliable source for our lives including in the 'god-awful' Political sphere. It becomes quite clear - to me and to some people that SOMEHOW... The State of Israel and each of its Jewish citizens as well as each of us in the Diaspora need to get serious and find our way to anchor ourselves with Torah and all that it implies. Certainly the last four Parashas from Balak have immediate and long term messages for our Times - on a practical level. Along with each Parasha is additional teachings via each week's Haftorah. I'll stop here.
The whole land for peace idea has been totally disproven now. It doesn't work with jihadists and just weakens Israel as you say here. The argument is sound. I used to think that the settlements were a mistake, but now I agree that they probably are not. The Jihadists want everything from the river to the sea and have the long view in mind. If they can weaken Israel by taking back some land piecemeal and lying to Israel that it will bring peace they will do it and say whatever it takes so the gullible West will believe them and side with them against Israel until they take Israel apart piece by piece. Let's hope that the one positive thing coming from Oct 7 is that Israel has learned that lesson.
Don’t start using the Republicans tactic of applying the term woke to liberals. The term originated in the Black community to mean be watchful of the government which is actually a conservative value. The term has been co-opted to mean something negative that it doesn’t apply to. The name calling is just childish behavior especially when you don’t know the meaning of the term woke.
Get used to it. Woke no longer means what it originally meant. Sorry if you didn't get the memo. The extreme left have been co-opting the definitions of words for a long time now, so the few times the conservatives do it you'll just have to live with it. Not all liberals are woke (and I mean the negative, cancel culture, DEI definition of woke). I'll certainly concede that. Take Alan Dershowitz or Bari Weiss for instance. Honest liberals and definitely not woke.
I know the origins of the term. I also know that it is used differently these days. I didn't personally co-opt this term. It's been used this way for quite a few years now by the most literate people I know. I read/hear news on both sides. Meanings and connotations evolve over time and it is being used this way in common discourse now. I do notice many people who are news siloed (only listen to mainstream media, especially CNN and MSNBC) have not heard the term at all which always takes me a bit by surprise.
Learn from history. Do not give your enemies the means to attack you. Show them no mercy and destroy them. There will never be any chance of peace when you are dealing with Muslim fanatics.
I think it's essential that Israel take control of Gaza, Judaea and Samaria. The sooner the better.
Israel cannot give one inch for a piece of paper saying “peace.” Only nation ever to win land in wars of attack by enemies, Israel fighting in defense only, forced to give it back.
From the river to the sea 🇮🇱
I don't understand how you can write an article and ignore the elephant in the room. What happens to the Palestinians? Do they become citizens? If not, then you're talking about Israel doing something unprecedented and becoming a rogue state. With catastrophic ramifications for security.
I see the only lasting viable solution is for Israel to ultimately declare sovereignty in the disputed territories and create a security barrier in southern Lebanon, and do so unapologetically and when fully prepared militarily for the reaction. Those who want a chance at real life and to coexist with Jews in a Jewish state can stay; those who want eternal war and advocate for Jewish genocide will be deported (including those who already have Israeli citizenship). No sympathy; no angst. They’ve had plenty of opportunities which they’ve determinedly squandered. Our resolve to survive (strength) has to beat their blood lust to destroy us (hate), and without guilt.
What other country on the planet would tolerate, and even enable, such an undeniable threat to its very existence? Maybe Iran, France, and the UK will take them as they seem to be their biggest supporters.
I identify as an unapologetic realist, not a “fringe quack.”
"Deradicalization, something akin to what happened with the de-Nazification of Germany after World War Two, is a multi-generational project."
De-Nazification was possible because one could reject the goals and principles of Nazism and still be a patriot. Islam is a different matter. In Islam, religion and governance are inextricably intertwined. The Quran and the Hadiths make it an article of faith that any land that once came under their control forever remained Islamic territory. Furthermore, it teaches that anyone who is not Muslim is kufar and at best to be treated as a degraded, second class person (they are not citizens), or at worst, if they refuse to convert, to be slaughtered. Asking Muslims to give up these core beliefs is asking them to imperil heir soul to eternal damnation. The de=radicalization of nazism does not apply here and is a mistake to think it will because no religion is willing to rewrite its sacred texts.
This is a thoughtful essay worth careful consideration and adoption. I'm admittedly a newcomer to this topic and discussion, but one thing seems blindingly clear from a military perspective (which I have): Israel should 're-annex" Judea/Samaria/Gaza to the boundaries after the 1967 War. Their outlines on a map are like cancers in a body given the current leadership of these areas supports the 1988 Hamas Covenant. It's an odd situation that doesn't allow the victor of a war to determine boundaries gained due to that war. No one asks Europe or the U.S. to re-align any of their numerous pre-war(s) national boundaries.
To civil/peace-loving Palestine Arabs currently living in those areas they are welcome to stay; or the Jihadists may emigrate to the Arab state of their choice.
Welcome to stay and receive citizenship?
Now we've arrived at the hard parts. One approach might be to grant temporary status with the possibility of citizenship after 10 years. I'm not qualified to say much regarding any 'plan' but it seems to me the voting question is more difficult.
I'm for whatever makes sense. Your line about Israel does not need to be loved, it needs to be secure -- totally. My one trepidation with incorporating Gaza and Judea / Samaria is you then incorporates millions of Palestinians into the country, and they will vote. How do you keep Israel the Jewish state it is meant to be?
Agreed! Go forward and be strong!!!
Thank you. Here are a few thoughts meant to provoke but not meant to aggravate. How do you and/or how does one define "Palestinians"? Personally, during this crisis period of the last several years I no longer use the term "Palestinians" with ease. I prefer to write and converse around that '4-letter word' because it, like the terms 'liberal' and 'woke' have come to commonly have new, more recent meanings. If necessary instead I use "so-called 'palestinians' ". How does "Palestinian" differ from Arab-Israeli? "Palestinian" implies more often than not a Jihad foundation and even tends to overwhelm 'palestinians' who are not Muslim. It is certainly well known that approximately 25% of "Palestinians" and/or so-called palestinians are Jewish heritage persons. One investigator has long been in the process to prove that statistic but has found that the percentage of Jewish heritage "Palestinians" is much higher than 25%. Rabbi M.M.Schneerson advised every Israeli Prime Minister and prime mover/macher of Israel to not give up one inch of land and with particular emphasis that any land acquired via combatting incoming foreign military assaults. Although several Prime Ministers when interviewed just after meeting with R. Schneerson noted openly that they were shocked by the Rabbi's detailed knowledge of Military Strategy as well as the particular details of the State of Israel's then current situations. R. Schneerson aka the Lubavitch Rebbe was clear that the Jewish People and Jewish persons need in the first place, as a Foundation - towards all things good including peace i.e. the stability of peace - to "live with the Times". Times implying living with knowledge, study, guidance, communication about the weekly Parasha (weekly chronological portion of the Torah). Presumably the so-called 'religious far right' are basing their viewpoints on Torah and the interpretation of Torah and application in our Times. I'm a VERY late learner, but, gradually I am learning how to do preliminary basic study of the weekly Parasha and use only appropriate Jewish sources/books/teachers (primarily online; and via a bit of daily Practice) - and it becomes a bit apparent that the Torah including its study and practices is the most reliable source for our lives including in the 'god-awful' Political sphere. It becomes quite clear - to me and to some people that SOMEHOW... The State of Israel and each of its Jewish citizens as well as each of us in the Diaspora need to get serious and find our way to anchor ourselves with Torah and all that it implies. Certainly the last four Parashas from Balak have immediate and long term messages for our Times - on a practical level. Along with each Parasha is additional teachings via each week's Haftorah. I'll stop here.
It's not crazy at all. It's eminently sensible.
The whole land for peace idea has been totally disproven now. It doesn't work with jihadists and just weakens Israel as you say here. The argument is sound. I used to think that the settlements were a mistake, but now I agree that they probably are not. The Jihadists want everything from the river to the sea and have the long view in mind. If they can weaken Israel by taking back some land piecemeal and lying to Israel that it will bring peace they will do it and say whatever it takes so the gullible West will believe them and side with them against Israel until they take Israel apart piece by piece. Let's hope that the one positive thing coming from Oct 7 is that Israel has learned that lesson.
Don’t start using the Republicans tactic of applying the term woke to liberals. The term originated in the Black community to mean be watchful of the government which is actually a conservative value. The term has been co-opted to mean something negative that it doesn’t apply to. The name calling is just childish behavior especially when you don’t know the meaning of the term woke.
Get used to it. Woke no longer means what it originally meant. Sorry if you didn't get the memo. The extreme left have been co-opting the definitions of words for a long time now, so the few times the conservatives do it you'll just have to live with it. Not all liberals are woke (and I mean the negative, cancel culture, DEI definition of woke). I'll certainly concede that. Take Alan Dershowitz or Bari Weiss for instance. Honest liberals and definitely not woke.
I don’t need your sarcasm. You can co-opt words just because you are illiterate
I know the origins of the term. I also know that it is used differently these days. I didn't personally co-opt this term. It's been used this way for quite a few years now by the most literate people I know. I read/hear news on both sides. Meanings and connotations evolve over time and it is being used this way in common discourse now. I do notice many people who are news siloed (only listen to mainstream media, especially CNN and MSNBC) have not heard the term at all which always takes me a bit by surprise.
Changing the meaning of words from positive to negative meanings is cult behavior. You are just participating in this behavior. That’s my point.