I wish people would stop fantasising about Israel. Everyone is at it, and it must be exhausting and aggravating to the extreme!! Sending love from the UK 🇬🇧💙🇮🇱
Israel is a country full of humans and hence fallible. But not afraid to right itself. The problem is, and I just wrote this on another blog, the enemies of Israel don’t just kill Israelis. They target Jews worldwide. So Israelis need to be seen for who they are, but Israelis need to understand that they do not live in a void. Decisions o. How to deal with their enemies has a direct effect on Jews worldwide.
Now this may not be fair. Because antisemitism is about the antisemite not the Jews, but it too is reality.
What Israel decides she needs to do of course is up to her. But remember if you leave the evil alive there are 7 million Jews around the world who will also be targets.
Sadly, Freedom Lover's comment rings true. I know so many liberal jews here in the Washington DC area who can't stomach mention Hamas atrocities without reflexively commenting on "extremism on the other [jewish] side as well."
I would not give them the label of liberal Jews when in fact most are extremist in their hatred of religious Jews and Jews who support Israel. If you mean Reform, the sect which decided in 1999 to become a Tikkun Olam social activist religion worshipping all minorities except Jews, with many leaders and rabbis teaching hatred of Israel and religious Jews for decades while brainwashing their youth so now many have become Hamas lovers and Israel haters, I would not use the term liberal for them at all.
This is very true, especially among left of center Jews many of whom are what I call "Conditional Zionists." They will only support a Jewish state that remains the Jewish Disneyland of their childhood imagination. The exemplar of this type is Thomas Friedman. I don't know too many right of center Jews who live in fantasy as you describe here. There are some of course but most are realists. We have known for decades that Israel has been attempting to negotiate peace with a death cult. Many Israelis were and are just as delusional as the left Zionists in the disaspora. We feel the pain our brothers and sisters in Israel feel. We understand that they do not want endless war. It has killed us to see the errors Israel has made over the past 30 years that have led to non stop war and blood shed. We want Israel to finish this war because we know what will happen if Israel doesn't. We recognize that it is not our sons and daughters at risk. We are real Zionists because we love Israel no matter who is in charge or what errors or mistakes are made. Just as I love the United States unconditionally, I love Israel unconditionally. Thomas Friedman does not.
I have read all the articles about how a two-state solution is now impossible. I think they are 95 percent correct. But I am going to focus on the 5-percent chance that they are wrong, and the chance that courageous leadership can make them wrong.
I think the description of the “Right’s” position is caricature.
Those urging a continuation to the end aren’t unaware of the cost.
But you’ve been down the road with Hamas before. Seems irresponsible to leave them there, especially when they’ve promised to do it again. i think you should believe them when they say that.
What has impressed me is that Arabs living in Israel have the same legal rights as the rest of the citizens, are Members of the Knesset, the IDF, and are in what are sometimes called "The Professions" such as physicians, lawyers, and such. I would be VERY surprised if ANY of the Islamic countries follow Israel's lead.
Gosh, I couldn’t agree more. As a former leftie who moved to the right after Oct. 7th, my only hesitation is your characterization of those on the right. Many of them have family in Israel, go there often themselves, and are quite well-informed about the war’s many high costs to Israelis. Your final paragraph, however, is the most important one. We in the Diaspora need to stop forming rigid opinions, to trust Israelis, even with all their own disagreements, to find the best possible resolution to a lose-lose situation. We owe them support, respect and gratitude. Period.
This is exactly what I was going to say. A two state solution was never possible and I think it died in 1948. In order for a two state solution to be possible you need two willing participants..
Yes in reality it was always a ruse, a trick. But it became impossible for a sane person to believe it possible after 2000 and I hate when our own people seem to think 10/7 was somehow different in any way other than scale to what the murder cult has done for 30 years.
One could argue that Haj Amin al-Hussaini killed it when he rejected the Peel Commission recommendations in 1937. As long as the jihadi world view that he supported continues to be popular among Palestinians the two state solution is a dead letter. People have to stop putting the cart before the horse. First you have to de-radicalize the population, then you can talk about compromise solutions.
I agree with much of what Nachum writes — diaspora Jews often misunderstand Israel, seeing it only through the prism of their politics. His framing of the Left’s illusions and the Right’s fantasies is blunt but not inaccurate. Still, I think the relationship is more complex than a one-way critique. It is a two-way street.
The diaspora needs Israel as much as Israel needs the diaspora. That’s why Israel even has a Diaspora Affairs Ministry. The irony is that it is currently led by Amichai Chikli, a figure on the far right who believes it is acceptable to cultivate ties with European parties and organizations with neo-Nazi roots. That disconnect illustrates the problem: when Israel’s politics drift toward isolation, it alienates exactly the Jews abroad whose solidarity is essential.
At the same time, it’s not only about policies but about politics and perception. Israel is increasingly isolated on the world stage, and Israelis themselves feel it. It is no surprise that so many today apply for foreign passports alongside their Israeli ones, as a hedge against uncertainty.
That’s why both sides — Israelis and the diaspora — need to be more knowledgeable about one another. The point is not to impose political fantasies but to work together to formulate a strategy that ensures the security and well-being of the Jewish people as a whole.
I know this because, at different times of my life, I have been both. And my varied experience makes me whole.
The way to save the lives of soldiers would have been to put their lives over those of the Gaza population. Perhaps razing Gaza would have spared soldiers being killed from going into gaza on the ground. The goal of saving the lives of soldiers and giving Israelis a normal life actually makes the case for more right-wing policies, not holding middle of the road views.
"Yet, the Right-wingers in the diaspora speak as though Israel’s military strength comes without cost, when the price is high and paid for in Israeli Jewish blood. They want Israel to raze Gaza, but they do not sit at the shiva (house of mourning) for the 19-year-old soldiers who will never come home".
"Israelis want something simpler: They want survival not to be the first item on their daily agenda. They want to live normally without having to check the news before walking their child to school, and without fearing that the customer beside them in the grocery store is a suicide bomber".
Two Jews, three opinions - the diaspora isn’t exempt from this rule. But in addition to the diaspora needing to listen to and understand those who actually live in Israel, I think it falls to the left to at least sound more supportive. Regardless of how they feel about the Israeli government and its dismal record, it’s not a good idea to join Hamas lovers in criticizing the country. United we stand, divided… well, we all know how the story goes.
Of diaspora Jews. It’s not black and white. I understand there’s a price to pay in war. And that there’s a bigger price to pay in trying to appease a homicidal neighbor. There are no easy choices for Israel. The world makes sure of that. But it’s only by force and will that Israel can have self determination. And it comes at an unfairly high price that other nations don’t pay. But they will, because the problem of Islamic jihad is everywhere now.
Hear! Hear!!
I wish people would stop fantasising about Israel. Everyone is at it, and it must be exhausting and aggravating to the extreme!! Sending love from the UK 🇬🇧💙🇮🇱
Israel is a country full of humans and hence fallible. But not afraid to right itself. The problem is, and I just wrote this on another blog, the enemies of Israel don’t just kill Israelis. They target Jews worldwide. So Israelis need to be seen for who they are, but Israelis need to understand that they do not live in a void. Decisions o. How to deal with their enemies has a direct effect on Jews worldwide.
Now this may not be fair. Because antisemitism is about the antisemite not the Jews, but it too is reality.
What Israel decides she needs to do of course is up to her. But remember if you leave the evil alive there are 7 million Jews around the world who will also be targets.
The Two-State delusion can’t possibly work with one side wanting the other dead. Please tell me that the Left in Israel grasps this as well.
They do not. They can't pas their blind hatred for the "settlers."
Sadly, Freedom Lover's comment rings true. I know so many liberal jews here in the Washington DC area who can't stomach mention Hamas atrocities without reflexively commenting on "extremism on the other [jewish] side as well."
I would not give them the label of liberal Jews when in fact most are extremist in their hatred of religious Jews and Jews who support Israel. If you mean Reform, the sect which decided in 1999 to become a Tikkun Olam social activist religion worshipping all minorities except Jews, with many leaders and rabbis teaching hatred of Israel and religious Jews for decades while brainwashing their youth so now many have become Hamas lovers and Israel haters, I would not use the term liberal for them at all.
Stuck in the Marxist oppressor/oppressed mindset, I guess. Probably has something to do with lack of toilet training in their youth.
This is very true, especially among left of center Jews many of whom are what I call "Conditional Zionists." They will only support a Jewish state that remains the Jewish Disneyland of their childhood imagination. The exemplar of this type is Thomas Friedman. I don't know too many right of center Jews who live in fantasy as you describe here. There are some of course but most are realists. We have known for decades that Israel has been attempting to negotiate peace with a death cult. Many Israelis were and are just as delusional as the left Zionists in the disaspora. We feel the pain our brothers and sisters in Israel feel. We understand that they do not want endless war. It has killed us to see the errors Israel has made over the past 30 years that have led to non stop war and blood shed. We want Israel to finish this war because we know what will happen if Israel doesn't. We recognize that it is not our sons and daughters at risk. We are real Zionists because we love Israel no matter who is in charge or what errors or mistakes are made. Just as I love the United States unconditionally, I love Israel unconditionally. Thomas Friedman does not.
Thomas Friedman is a self-serving self hating Jew. He is the court Jew for the New York Times.
Friedman absolutely loves the sound of his own voice and loves his self-flattering self-image as a fearless and wise oracle...after that, who knows...
Tom at his finest
Tommy Friedman
2024-04-10
I have read all the articles about how a two-state solution is now impossible. I think they are 95 percent correct. But I am going to focus on the 5-percent chance that they are wrong, and the chance that courageous leadership can make them wrong.
I think the description of the “Right’s” position is caricature.
Those urging a continuation to the end aren’t unaware of the cost.
But you’ve been down the road with Hamas before. Seems irresponsible to leave them there, especially when they’ve promised to do it again. i think you should believe them when they say that.
What has impressed me is that Arabs living in Israel have the same legal rights as the rest of the citizens, are Members of the Knesset, the IDF, and are in what are sometimes called "The Professions" such as physicians, lawyers, and such. I would be VERY surprised if ANY of the Islamic countries follow Israel's lead.
Well said .. the constant lie that Israel is an apartheid state is shameful.
Gosh, I couldn’t agree more. As a former leftie who moved to the right after Oct. 7th, my only hesitation is your characterization of those on the right. Many of them have family in Israel, go there often themselves, and are quite well-informed about the war’s many high costs to Israelis. Your final paragraph, however, is the most important one. We in the Diaspora need to stop forming rigid opinions, to trust Israelis, even with all their own disagreements, to find the best possible resolution to a lose-lose situation. We owe them support, respect and gratitude. Period.
The two state solution which was a dream not based in reality died on 10/7
It died (If it ever lived) in the year 2000.
This is exactly what I was going to say. A two state solution was never possible and I think it died in 1948. In order for a two state solution to be possible you need two willing participants..
Yes in reality it was always a ruse, a trick. But it became impossible for a sane person to believe it possible after 2000 and I hate when our own people seem to think 10/7 was somehow different in any way other than scale to what the murder cult has done for 30 years.
One could argue that Haj Amin al-Hussaini killed it when he rejected the Peel Commission recommendations in 1937. As long as the jihadi world view that he supported continues to be popular among Palestinians the two state solution is a dead letter. People have to stop putting the cart before the horse. First you have to de-radicalize the population, then you can talk about compromise solutions.
I agree with much of what Nachum writes — diaspora Jews often misunderstand Israel, seeing it only through the prism of their politics. His framing of the Left’s illusions and the Right’s fantasies is blunt but not inaccurate. Still, I think the relationship is more complex than a one-way critique. It is a two-way street.
The diaspora needs Israel as much as Israel needs the diaspora. That’s why Israel even has a Diaspora Affairs Ministry. The irony is that it is currently led by Amichai Chikli, a figure on the far right who believes it is acceptable to cultivate ties with European parties and organizations with neo-Nazi roots. That disconnect illustrates the problem: when Israel’s politics drift toward isolation, it alienates exactly the Jews abroad whose solidarity is essential.
At the same time, it’s not only about policies but about politics and perception. Israel is increasingly isolated on the world stage, and Israelis themselves feel it. It is no surprise that so many today apply for foreign passports alongside their Israeli ones, as a hedge against uncertainty.
That’s why both sides — Israelis and the diaspora — need to be more knowledgeable about one another. The point is not to impose political fantasies but to work together to formulate a strategy that ensures the security and well-being of the Jewish people as a whole.
I know this because, at different times of my life, I have been both. And my varied experience makes me whole.
Not at all. He’s totally correct. You just live in your own naive little bubble Ellen.
Well said. They should be made to live in Israel for at least a year. They will be very pleasantly surprised!
The way to save the lives of soldiers would have been to put their lives over those of the Gaza population. Perhaps razing Gaza would have spared soldiers being killed from going into gaza on the ground. The goal of saving the lives of soldiers and giving Israelis a normal life actually makes the case for more right-wing policies, not holding middle of the road views.
...............................................................................................................................................................................................
"Yet, the Right-wingers in the diaspora speak as though Israel’s military strength comes without cost, when the price is high and paid for in Israeli Jewish blood. They want Israel to raze Gaza, but they do not sit at the shiva (house of mourning) for the 19-year-old soldiers who will never come home".
Completely understandable. But how is that accomplished without ruthlessly defeating the enemies and obliterating the terrorist groups?
..............................................................................................................................................................................................
"Israelis want something simpler: They want survival not to be the first item on their daily agenda. They want to live normally without having to check the news before walking their child to school, and without fearing that the customer beside them in the grocery store is a suicide bomber".
Two Jews, three opinions - the diaspora isn’t exempt from this rule. But in addition to the diaspora needing to listen to and understand those who actually live in Israel, I think it falls to the left to at least sound more supportive. Regardless of how they feel about the Israeli government and its dismal record, it’s not a good idea to join Hamas lovers in criticizing the country. United we stand, divided… well, we all know how the story goes.
Very incisive! Thank you.
It’s a bit of a caricaturized portrayal
Of diaspora Jews. It’s not black and white. I understand there’s a price to pay in war. And that there’s a bigger price to pay in trying to appease a homicidal neighbor. There are no easy choices for Israel. The world makes sure of that. But it’s only by force and will that Israel can have self determination. And it comes at an unfairly high price that other nations don’t pay. But they will, because the problem of Islamic jihad is everywhere now.