We are living through the largest propaganda environment in human history — and no country on earth is more relentlessly mythologised, demonised, and misrepresented online than the Jewish state.
The deepest problem is not simply that false claims about Israel spread online. It is that the correction often no longer matters, because the verdict has already been reached. A claim is believed not because it has been verified, but because it fits a moral story in which Israel is always already guilty.
That is what makes this so dangerous. Once people say that a fake image or impossible statistic does not matter because “the larger truth” remains, factual accuracy has become subordinate to emotional usefulness. At that point, lying is no longer experienced as lying. It becomes a form of moral participation.
The antisemitic structure is familiar: one Jewish object becomes the explanation for every evil, and any evidence — even counterevidence — is absorbed into the same accusation. The internet has not invented this pattern. It has industrialized it.
The first act of moral seriousness is not agreement. It is verification.
You know what's more troubling? The % of American Jews who think Israel committed genocide. I think its around 38% (no typo). What does that mean? It's a total failure of Jewish education by rabbis and others to even teach Jews what a genocide is and where the term comes from.
All of this is absolutely true. What to do about it is the question? We must face first of all, I think, that the world we once lived in where more care was taken to follow-up truth, where indeed truth mattered, is gone. Across the board it's gone. Those of us who still care about words, inner moral integrity, facing truth instead of projecting what we want onto a lie or distortion to make it our own truth, we are now in the minority. And this change has poisoned everything. Apart from sticking to my guns and voicing my own knowledge and opinion, I'm askance at the world I now live in.
Modern humans have not evolved at all since medieval times. Social media is a filthy cesspool which has resulted in western civilization's regression. We'd be better off if social media was abolished, especially X and tiktok. That so many are willing to accept the claims of islamic terrorists tells me we will not survive as a civilization and frankly we don't deserve to. If Israel was actually doing horrible things, there wouldn't be the need to invent them and in such extreme ways. These miserable Jew-hating losers NEED for Israel to be the bad guys to validate their hatred. They hate Jews because of their own feelings of inadequacy.
So true and each day, it gets worse and worse. And no matter if you post verified facts debunking the claims, no matter how much evidence--the replies are always, "fake news," "Zionist lies," and worse. They WANT to believe the lies, they WANT to hate. And worse than the lies is how comfortable people are posting things like, "Hitler was right," and "We need another Holocaust," and, "you're going back to the ovens, Jew." And worse.
When useful idiots accuse the Jews of controlling the media, the banks, Hollywood, US Administration and so on, I just tell them how ignorant they are. They have totally underestimated our power:
We control the Universe.
And for those who complain about genocide, ethnic cleansing, apartheid ect. I reply:
Those who fund and initiate wars of aggression or terror campaigns against their neighbors should be ready to bear the consequences.
No; Israel has turned itself into the world’s most disliked conspiracy fact. Lots of bad things, and some of the biggest bad things, are Israel’s fault, not everything. That is enough to dislike Israel. But Zionists need to make it about everything so they can argue with strawmen and give the illusion to each other that their ideology isn’t as irrational as it is.
No serious person needs to claim that Israel is innocent, or that Israeli governments have not made grave mistakes, or that Israel should never be criticized. Of course Israel can be blamed for things it actually does. That is ordinary political judgment.
But that is different from turning Israel into a total explanation — the hidden source of every evil, the uniquely monstrous state, the actor whose guilt is assumed before facts are checked. Calling that a “conspiracy fact” does not solve the problem. It simply turns suspicion into certainty.
The issue is not whether Israel can be disliked. The issue is whether claims about Israel still have to be true.
If a particular Israeli action is wrong, name it, document it, and argue it. But when false images, impossible statistics, missing context, or collapsed stories are excused because “the larger point is still true,” then we are no longer talking about criticism. We are talking about a narrative that has made itself immune to correction.
That is not moral seriousness. It is precisely how conspiracy thinking works.
That isn't applicable here. My point is, so what? So Jews should be attacked and a state menaced because it makes mistakes? Israel is one of the more astonishing success stories in modern history. What are the "bad things" that Israel does that the US, France, UK, China, Italy don't do?
Why do you think I don’t like what the U.S. government does? I am a U.S. citizen and I don’t like my taxes being used to conduct wars for the benefit of Israel. The U.S. government is now engaged in a war with Iran, primarily because of Israel. Not China. Not France. Not the UK. Not Italy.
What does “Jews being attacked” have to do with my argument? Again, you are doing the strawman thing. Try having a conversation with me, not Hamas.
Israel has been an enormous drain on the success of the United States since its inception. I don’t care about Israel’s “success” anymore than China’s.
Iran is akin to Nazi Germany or a dystopian state from the handmaid’s tale — exporting terror and trying to develop nuclear weapons. Just because you think YOU won’t face any consequences doesn’t mean Iran should be allowed to plan a genocide of Israelis and finance anti-Western terror.
"But that is different from turning Israel into a total explanation — the hidden source of every evil, the uniquely monstrous state, the actor whose guilt is assumed before facts are checked."
You must not realize that your AI just repeated the argument I just classified as a strawman. I don't think Israel is a "total explanation" nor would I wager most people, especially in the U.S., accusing Israel of genocide, think that Israel is the "hidden source of every evil". You can't actually address my argument, so you just have an AI repeat the strawman and argues against that. Which is exactly what I said Zionists needed to do. So.. you just prove my point -- you use an AI to argue against a strawman. Thanks.
"If a particular Israeli action is wrong, name it, document it, and argue it. "
Yes, thats what have been doing with Israel's genocide. Naming it, documenting it, and arguing it. And when I do, Zionists have the habit of claiming I am turning Israel into a "hidden source of every evil."
"We are talking about a narrative that has made itself immune to correction."
No, I am talking about a genocide, and its conspiratorial cover up, that has an abundance of evidence that Zionists desperately run to AI to dispute with illogical arguments.
"That is not moral seriousness. It is precisely how conspiracy thinking works."
Conspiracies exist despite those who engage in them deeply wanting to make the thought of one taboo. Accusing someone of "conspiracy thinking" for naming Israel's genocide is not moral seriousness. It is how AIs are used to engage in logical fallacies.
It is not a lie. And genocide is morally serious. Do you think I don't believe it is a genocide and Im falsely claiming I believe it is a genocide? That is what a "lie" would be. You do know what lies are right? Would you feel better if I said "I believe Likud is intentionally torturing millions of people and has killed 10s of thousands of civilians for the sake of revenge and territorial conquest ?" Would you think I was "lying"?
Those who are brainwashed into believing a lie are still lying. It is a defensive war of a people who gave nowhere else to go. When you are fighting for your life, defense at all costs, what happens to the enemy is not a concern. The Genocide charge is a lie. Israel could have committed a genocide, they chose not to and it cost a lot of idf lives bc they chose to fight a humanitarian war.
It’s a “concern” when innocent people are made an enemy and they are targeted to be transferred for the sake of territorial conquest. And there is nothing “humanitarian” about the IDF burying ambulances with bulldozers.
Genocide is the intentional effort to exterminate a race, religion, ethnic or other identifiable people. Examples: Nazis, Hamas (unsuccessful Nazis). A bunch of dead people in an urban war is not genocide. If it were, sorry America, but firebombing Tokyo and killing 100,000 over a weekend would be genocide. Sorry UK and US, but a Strategic Bombing campaign where the strategy is to kill so many civilians that the Nazis cave, is genocide.
Once you claim that something as minor (in the context of all wars) as Gaza, where Gazans (Hamas is just a bunch of Gazans, and supported to this day by 70% of them) started a war and hid among fellow citizens, then all wars are genocides where civilians are killed. And once you go there, you have eviscerated the moral distinction of genocide.
There is zero evidence of Israel seeking to exterminate Gazans. If there were, they sure did a lousy job of it.
No, it isn’t the intent to “exterminate” it is the intent to destroy in whole or *in part* per the genocide convention and the way it has been applied throughout history. Again another strawman. Genocides don’t need to be at the scale of what happened during world war 2 to be a genocide. Nor do they need to intend to destroy every single member of a group. What distinguishes a Tokyo bombing and Gaza or even Hamas (which you are fine with characterizing as genocidal and I agree) is the intent. You don’t think Israel has the intent; I do. That is the only difference.
Answer this: do you think Israel carries out genocide in Deuteronomy and Joshua?
"Genocide" is wholly made-up charge. Do the Goddamn math, you idiot. There are more people in Gaza now than before October 7, 2023. You are not morally serious. You cling stubbornly to a narrative which has repeatedly been debunked. You have your mind made up and won't be confused with facts. The bottom line is that you WANT to believe Israel is guilty of genocide. You won't accept clear, undeniable evidence to the contrary. You want your hatred of Israel to be validated.
The war in Gaza has a very low combatant to civilian casualty ratio — the lowest of any similar urban conflict, such as the US war in Iraq. That’s a fact. The IDF had a clear military goal — to remove Hamas infrastructure and militia.
Your incoherent, deluded conclusion about the IDF’s restrained, serious and costly ground war in Gaza is not a reflection of reality or truth. You believe what you’re saying, but it’s plainly not what happened in Gaza after Oct 7.
Your ideological objections to war (or the Jewish state?) don’t make lies and distortions acceptable or moral. You’re a product of the global left’s campaign to vilify Israel that started at the Durban Conference with the designation of Israel as a ‘genocidal’, ‘apartheid’ state, long before this latest war that Hamas launched. It’s Orwellian and insidious language designed to brainwash and radicalise adherents (people like you) and dehumanise the targets of this hate (Israelis). You’re wrong and nothing can change that because it’s the truth. Believe what you like, but know that your OPINION is irrelevant to people who believe in facts, truth and honesty.
What happened after Gaza was the IDF intentionally used hunger as a weapon of war and revenge, obliterated most of Gazas civilian infrastructure, including agriculture, sniped innocent people crossing arbitrary lines, posted jokes about it on tik tok, sang about killing Amalek and the idea that there are no uninvolved civilians, buried ambulances, raped prisoners, and then did a bunch of things and said things to try to cover all that up and convince people like you it was all necessary or inevitable as self defense. You believe what you are saying but it isn’t what happened and know that your opinion is increasingly irrelevant around the world and in the U.S.
I am not part of the “left”. That is another one of those strawmen Zionists need to use. I am not of the left. I have contempt for communism. I also have contempt for Hamas. I in fact disdain Islam. But none of that redeems the sins of Israel. You are welcome to look at my substack writing. I didn’t talk about Israel until after October 7th and was mostly criticizing BLM and the Democratic Party before it. Genocide and apartheid refer to objective qualities of what Israel is currently doing. It isn’t orwellian language. Whatever “the left” has said about Israel has nothing to do with my arguments.
It sounds like *you* hate “the global left.” Your *conspiracy theory* about it doesn’t apply to me. If Israel wasn’t being supported by US taxes and the U.S. military because enormous Zionist influence, I would be writing about what Israel is doing in Palestine as much as I write about what is happening in Myanmar, which is very very little.
Nonsense. Your argument about genocide is completely false and beyond comprehension. It’s nothing but a new antisemetic blood libel. The world Jewish population has not recovered it pre world war 2 levels. The number of Gazans increased regularly throughout the war. You are right, Israel is not the explanation. The world oldest hatred is.
Oh the world’s oldest hatred…the world existed before Jews did and I can guarantee it hated. Your theological belief about how the world hates Jews metaphysically does explain your devotion to defending Israel’s right to torture millions of people for the sake of territorial expansion though.
You’re proving the point that many critics of Israel are indulging in an atavistic ritual of othering and demonisation. There are no words or facts that can make people like you see reason. You deny doing exactly what you’re doing — because you’ve embraced antisemitic conspiracy theories and seem to think you haven’t? You’re in an ideological cult that has proven to be extremely powerful and appealing to some since Oct 7. Hope you learn more and start considering all perspectives, rather than crafting a narrative that is straight from Hamas–IRGC HQ.
Is self-defense Israel's fault? Is conducting the least damaging urban war in history Israel's fault (per John Spencer, head of urban war studies at West Point)
Intentionally targeting civilians for revenge and the purpose of territorial conquest is Israel’s fault. The other stuff is Israel’s pretense for doing it.
There is zero evidence -- zero -- of Israel intentionally targeting civilians. Although its true, they "target" them with flyers warning of impending military operations. And what's wrong with revenge? When an admitted genocidal group like Hamas slits throats (and films it), shoves rods into the privates of young women after raping them and before shooting them, slices women's breasts off to play catch, tosses babies into ovens, what's wrong with revenge? And what territorial conquest are you talking about?
Are you that unaware of Israeli soldiers talking about how they were commanded to shoot civilians if they crossed arbitrary lines? And Israeli leaders have openly talked about starving the entire population, which is mostly a civilians. We have video of the idf killing aid workers and trying to literally bury the evidence with bulldozers. Your “zero evidence” is silly. If you take revenge on an entire population because of what its ruling gang did, then yes that is deeply immoral. And the territorial conquests I’m talking about are the ones that Likud talks about openly. Netanyahu called “greater Israel” a “spiritual mission.”
You need to ask yourself why you’re attacking Israel — you’re being manipulated and radicalised by ideologically-driven lies and distortions. Clearly you’re brainwashed and lack critical thinking skills. That’s your problem.
Im disparaging Israel because Ive deeply researched the history of Judaism and Israel and its relationship with the United States and I believe that both are detrimental to the maximal flourishing of most Americans. I don't like Islam either -- or for that matter communism. Just because I disagree with you about something, or I believe something that kind of resembles something that someone you hate believes, doesn't mean I was brainwashed by them. Americans and Soviets both disliked Nazis. It didnt mean that Americans were brainwashed by the soviets.
I can assure you my critical thinking skills are top notch. And personally insulting my intelligence doesn't affect the validity of my arguments; anyone with decent critical thinking skills will understand that.
You need to ask yourself why you are accusing me of being brainwashed when my beliefs do not actually resemble what "brainwashing" would lead to.
Are you a worthy American, or do you not meet the benchmark for some mutable/immutable characteristic? Or is not being Jewish, Muslim, Nazi or communist all that is required? This is fascinating.
Being Jewish, Muslim, Nazi, Communist are all mutable characteristics, none of which I would say disqualifies someone alone for being a“worthy American”, let alone “worthy human.” And yes I consider *myself* “worthy.” I’m not a spiritual masochist.
You’re supporting a Nazi ideology IMO — Israel and the US are fighting evil, anti-Western forces that seek to commit genocide and cause chaos via terror and insidious ideological means. Wake up.
Uhh. what ideology am I supporting? I disdain Islam. I disdain Hamas. Saying I support a Nazi ideology because I disparage Israel is like someone saying in 1942 that because someone disparages Soviet Russia they must be supporting a Nazi ideology because Nazis hate the Soviets. Both Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany were immoral regimes. Both Iran and Israel are immoral regimes. Not complicated.
So you’re a nationalist and isolationist? Would you have been against the US entering WWII, or do you feel that was justified, but only because Japan attacked the US? Your position seems to be one of amoral utilitarianism and solipsism.
I don’t think the words “nationalist” or “isolationist” capture my philosophy adequately. And certainly not “amoral utilitarianism”, which would be internally contradictory as utilitarianism is a moral philosophy, and not “solipsism”, since that is a philosophy of mind which I certainly don’t believe. I believe you have a mind, just not one that has views that I think are moral. Thus clearly I am not “amoral.”
I would have been totally fine with the U.S entering world war 2, but not in the way it did. Should have focused on the pacific, and shouldnt have drafted people to their death to fight Hitler in Europe. Stalin would have likely done enough damage to Germany without needing to sacrifice American lives. The draft was the biggest problem with ww2.
Of course utilitarianism can be considered amoral — it focuses on the 'best' outcome for the majority, which can often be at the cost of values or rights for the minority. Just because it's a 'moral philosophy' doesn't mean it IS 'moral'. Who's to decide what is 'best' anyway — the majority regardless of what is right or fair? We've seen the Orwellian atrocities that ensue when that's the case.
No it’s not strictly based on the “majority”, but rather on whatever brings the most “happiness” or “utility” total. Depending on which utilitarianism sub philosophy you are referring to theoretically that could arise from the utility of a minority. Regardless, utilitarians traditionally viewed their philosophy as what *they* thought was moral. They were concerned with morality, as they perceived it, rather than not being concerned about morality, or “amoral.”
I personally, like you, don’t think [traditional] utilitarianism is morally right, but it’s not “amoral”. Gravity is amoral. Psychopaths are amoral. Utilitarians are moralists whose moral philosophy we both dislike. I think a better word would simply be “immoral”.
Anyway, as much as I’d enjoy a discussion of moral language, I think that is a distraction from the topic.
I think you are right about the problems of a majority determining what is best or basing what is best on the outcome of a majority. Often I think what is best for a minority is better and what a minority has decided what is best is better. In fact, ironically, that is partially what I named my substack publication based on—Minority Report. I encourage you to read my About. I wager you would discover I am certainly not the sort of “utilitarian” you conceive me as. I imagine you brought in a lot of inaccurate assumptions about me based on my views on Israel.
This is an excellent and necessary essay.
The deepest problem is not simply that false claims about Israel spread online. It is that the correction often no longer matters, because the verdict has already been reached. A claim is believed not because it has been verified, but because it fits a moral story in which Israel is always already guilty.
That is what makes this so dangerous. Once people say that a fake image or impossible statistic does not matter because “the larger truth” remains, factual accuracy has become subordinate to emotional usefulness. At that point, lying is no longer experienced as lying. It becomes a form of moral participation.
The antisemitic structure is familiar: one Jewish object becomes the explanation for every evil, and any evidence — even counterevidence — is absorbed into the same accusation. The internet has not invented this pattern. It has industrialized it.
The first act of moral seriousness is not agreement. It is verification.
You know what's more troubling? The % of American Jews who think Israel committed genocide. I think its around 38% (no typo). What does that mean? It's a total failure of Jewish education by rabbis and others to even teach Jews what a genocide is and where the term comes from.
All of this is absolutely true. What to do about it is the question? We must face first of all, I think, that the world we once lived in where more care was taken to follow-up truth, where indeed truth mattered, is gone. Across the board it's gone. Those of us who still care about words, inner moral integrity, facing truth instead of projecting what we want onto a lie or distortion to make it our own truth, we are now in the minority. And this change has poisoned everything. Apart from sticking to my guns and voicing my own knowledge and opinion, I'm askance at the world I now live in.
Regarding the Iran war: “make Iran Persia again.
Modern humans have not evolved at all since medieval times. Social media is a filthy cesspool which has resulted in western civilization's regression. We'd be better off if social media was abolished, especially X and tiktok. That so many are willing to accept the claims of islamic terrorists tells me we will not survive as a civilization and frankly we don't deserve to. If Israel was actually doing horrible things, there wouldn't be the need to invent them and in such extreme ways. These miserable Jew-hating losers NEED for Israel to be the bad guys to validate their hatred. They hate Jews because of their own feelings of inadequacy.
So true and each day, it gets worse and worse. And no matter if you post verified facts debunking the claims, no matter how much evidence--the replies are always, "fake news," "Zionist lies," and worse. They WANT to believe the lies, they WANT to hate. And worse than the lies is how comfortable people are posting things like, "Hitler was right," and "We need another Holocaust," and, "you're going back to the ovens, Jew." And worse.
When useful idiots accuse the Jews of controlling the media, the banks, Hollywood, US Administration and so on, I just tell them how ignorant they are. They have totally underestimated our power:
We control the Universe.
And for those who complain about genocide, ethnic cleansing, apartheid ect. I reply:
Those who fund and initiate wars of aggression or terror campaigns against their neighbors should be ready to bear the consequences.
JVP...truth tellers as they are Jewish, and you?.....
The US generally follows Europe in lifestyle decisions so hopefully the brilliant Eurovision performance will calm down some US minds.
Eurovision doesn't attract enough advertising to meet our high standards for entertainment.
No; Israel has turned itself into the world’s most disliked conspiracy fact. Lots of bad things, and some of the biggest bad things, are Israel’s fault, not everything. That is enough to dislike Israel. But Zionists need to make it about everything so they can argue with strawmen and give the illusion to each other that their ideology isn’t as irrational as it is.
This is exactly where the distinction matters.
No serious person needs to claim that Israel is innocent, or that Israeli governments have not made grave mistakes, or that Israel should never be criticized. Of course Israel can be blamed for things it actually does. That is ordinary political judgment.
But that is different from turning Israel into a total explanation — the hidden source of every evil, the uniquely monstrous state, the actor whose guilt is assumed before facts are checked. Calling that a “conspiracy fact” does not solve the problem. It simply turns suspicion into certainty.
The issue is not whether Israel can be disliked. The issue is whether claims about Israel still have to be true.
If a particular Israeli action is wrong, name it, document it, and argue it. But when false images, impossible statistics, missing context, or collapsed stories are excused because “the larger point is still true,” then we are no longer talking about criticism. We are talking about a narrative that has made itself immune to correction.
That is not moral seriousness. It is precisely how conspiracy thinking works.
You don't understand. Israel is the only country in history to make mistakes.
You are doing the strawman thing.
That isn't applicable here. My point is, so what? So Jews should be attacked and a state menaced because it makes mistakes? Israel is one of the more astonishing success stories in modern history. What are the "bad things" that Israel does that the US, France, UK, China, Italy don't do?
Why do you think I don’t like what the U.S. government does? I am a U.S. citizen and I don’t like my taxes being used to conduct wars for the benefit of Israel. The U.S. government is now engaged in a war with Iran, primarily because of Israel. Not China. Not France. Not the UK. Not Italy.
What does “Jews being attacked” have to do with my argument? Again, you are doing the strawman thing. Try having a conversation with me, not Hamas.
Israel has been an enormous drain on the success of the United States since its inception. I don’t care about Israel’s “success” anymore than China’s.
Iran is akin to Nazi Germany or a dystopian state from the handmaid’s tale — exporting terror and trying to develop nuclear weapons. Just because you think YOU won’t face any consequences doesn’t mean Iran should be allowed to plan a genocide of Israelis and finance anti-Western terror.
"But that is different from turning Israel into a total explanation — the hidden source of every evil, the uniquely monstrous state, the actor whose guilt is assumed before facts are checked."
You must not realize that your AI just repeated the argument I just classified as a strawman. I don't think Israel is a "total explanation" nor would I wager most people, especially in the U.S., accusing Israel of genocide, think that Israel is the "hidden source of every evil". You can't actually address my argument, so you just have an AI repeat the strawman and argues against that. Which is exactly what I said Zionists needed to do. So.. you just prove my point -- you use an AI to argue against a strawman. Thanks.
"If a particular Israeli action is wrong, name it, document it, and argue it. "
Yes, thats what have been doing with Israel's genocide. Naming it, documenting it, and arguing it. And when I do, Zionists have the habit of claiming I am turning Israel into a "hidden source of every evil."
"We are talking about a narrative that has made itself immune to correction."
No, I am talking about a genocide, and its conspiratorial cover up, that has an abundance of evidence that Zionists desperately run to AI to dispute with illogical arguments.
"That is not moral seriousness. It is precisely how conspiracy thinking works."
Conspiracies exist despite those who engage in them deeply wanting to make the thought of one taboo. Accusing someone of "conspiracy thinking" for naming Israel's genocide is not moral seriousness. It is how AIs are used to engage in logical fallacies.
Hilarious. You speak of moral seriousness and repeat the genocide lie.
It is not a lie. And genocide is morally serious. Do you think I don't believe it is a genocide and Im falsely claiming I believe it is a genocide? That is what a "lie" would be. You do know what lies are right? Would you feel better if I said "I believe Likud is intentionally torturing millions of people and has killed 10s of thousands of civilians for the sake of revenge and territorial conquest ?" Would you think I was "lying"?
Those who are brainwashed into believing a lie are still lying. It is a defensive war of a people who gave nowhere else to go. When you are fighting for your life, defense at all costs, what happens to the enemy is not a concern. The Genocide charge is a lie. Israel could have committed a genocide, they chose not to and it cost a lot of idf lives bc they chose to fight a humanitarian war.
It’s a “concern” when innocent people are made an enemy and they are targeted to be transferred for the sake of territorial conquest. And there is nothing “humanitarian” about the IDF burying ambulances with bulldozers.
Genocide is the intentional effort to exterminate a race, religion, ethnic or other identifiable people. Examples: Nazis, Hamas (unsuccessful Nazis). A bunch of dead people in an urban war is not genocide. If it were, sorry America, but firebombing Tokyo and killing 100,000 over a weekend would be genocide. Sorry UK and US, but a Strategic Bombing campaign where the strategy is to kill so many civilians that the Nazis cave, is genocide.
Once you claim that something as minor (in the context of all wars) as Gaza, where Gazans (Hamas is just a bunch of Gazans, and supported to this day by 70% of them) started a war and hid among fellow citizens, then all wars are genocides where civilians are killed. And once you go there, you have eviscerated the moral distinction of genocide.
There is zero evidence of Israel seeking to exterminate Gazans. If there were, they sure did a lousy job of it.
No, it isn’t the intent to “exterminate” it is the intent to destroy in whole or *in part* per the genocide convention and the way it has been applied throughout history. Again another strawman. Genocides don’t need to be at the scale of what happened during world war 2 to be a genocide. Nor do they need to intend to destroy every single member of a group. What distinguishes a Tokyo bombing and Gaza or even Hamas (which you are fine with characterizing as genocidal and I agree) is the intent. You don’t think Israel has the intent; I do. That is the only difference.
Answer this: do you think Israel carries out genocide in Deuteronomy and Joshua?
"Genocide" is wholly made-up charge. Do the Goddamn math, you idiot. There are more people in Gaza now than before October 7, 2023. You are not morally serious. You cling stubbornly to a narrative which has repeatedly been debunked. You have your mind made up and won't be confused with facts. The bottom line is that you WANT to believe Israel is guilty of genocide. You won't accept clear, undeniable evidence to the contrary. You want your hatred of Israel to be validated.
Does Israel carry out genocide in Deuteronomy and Joshua?
The war in Gaza has a very low combatant to civilian casualty ratio — the lowest of any similar urban conflict, such as the US war in Iraq. That’s a fact. The IDF had a clear military goal — to remove Hamas infrastructure and militia.
Your incoherent, deluded conclusion about the IDF’s restrained, serious and costly ground war in Gaza is not a reflection of reality or truth. You believe what you’re saying, but it’s plainly not what happened in Gaza after Oct 7.
Your ideological objections to war (or the Jewish state?) don’t make lies and distortions acceptable or moral. You’re a product of the global left’s campaign to vilify Israel that started at the Durban Conference with the designation of Israel as a ‘genocidal’, ‘apartheid’ state, long before this latest war that Hamas launched. It’s Orwellian and insidious language designed to brainwash and radicalise adherents (people like you) and dehumanise the targets of this hate (Israelis). You’re wrong and nothing can change that because it’s the truth. Believe what you like, but know that your OPINION is irrelevant to people who believe in facts, truth and honesty.
What happened after Gaza was the IDF intentionally used hunger as a weapon of war and revenge, obliterated most of Gazas civilian infrastructure, including agriculture, sniped innocent people crossing arbitrary lines, posted jokes about it on tik tok, sang about killing Amalek and the idea that there are no uninvolved civilians, buried ambulances, raped prisoners, and then did a bunch of things and said things to try to cover all that up and convince people like you it was all necessary or inevitable as self defense. You believe what you are saying but it isn’t what happened and know that your opinion is increasingly irrelevant around the world and in the U.S.
I am not part of the “left”. That is another one of those strawmen Zionists need to use. I am not of the left. I have contempt for communism. I also have contempt for Hamas. I in fact disdain Islam. But none of that redeems the sins of Israel. You are welcome to look at my substack writing. I didn’t talk about Israel until after October 7th and was mostly criticizing BLM and the Democratic Party before it. Genocide and apartheid refer to objective qualities of what Israel is currently doing. It isn’t orwellian language. Whatever “the left” has said about Israel has nothing to do with my arguments.
It sounds like *you* hate “the global left.” Your *conspiracy theory* about it doesn’t apply to me. If Israel wasn’t being supported by US taxes and the U.S. military because enormous Zionist influence, I would be writing about what Israel is doing in Palestine as much as I write about what is happening in Myanmar, which is very very little.
Nonsense. Your argument about genocide is completely false and beyond comprehension. It’s nothing but a new antisemetic blood libel. The world Jewish population has not recovered it pre world war 2 levels. The number of Gazans increased regularly throughout the war. You are right, Israel is not the explanation. The world oldest hatred is.
Oh the world’s oldest hatred…the world existed before Jews did and I can guarantee it hated. Your theological belief about how the world hates Jews metaphysically does explain your devotion to defending Israel’s right to torture millions of people for the sake of territorial expansion though.
You’re proving the point that many critics of Israel are indulging in an atavistic ritual of othering and demonisation. There are no words or facts that can make people like you see reason. You deny doing exactly what you’re doing — because you’ve embraced antisemitic conspiracy theories and seem to think you haven’t? You’re in an ideological cult that has proven to be extremely powerful and appealing to some since Oct 7. Hope you learn more and start considering all perspectives, rather than crafting a narrative that is straight from Hamas–IRGC HQ.
Dumbass, not even worthy of responding to.
But you just responded. 🤔
I don't think Israel turned herself into a disliked conspiracy. I think Hamas and useful idiots did that on their own.
Is self-defense Israel's fault? Is conducting the least damaging urban war in history Israel's fault (per John Spencer, head of urban war studies at West Point)
Intentionally targeting civilians for revenge and the purpose of territorial conquest is Israel’s fault. The other stuff is Israel’s pretense for doing it.
There is zero evidence -- zero -- of Israel intentionally targeting civilians. Although its true, they "target" them with flyers warning of impending military operations. And what's wrong with revenge? When an admitted genocidal group like Hamas slits throats (and films it), shoves rods into the privates of young women after raping them and before shooting them, slices women's breasts off to play catch, tosses babies into ovens, what's wrong with revenge? And what territorial conquest are you talking about?
Are you that unaware of Israeli soldiers talking about how they were commanded to shoot civilians if they crossed arbitrary lines? And Israeli leaders have openly talked about starving the entire population, which is mostly a civilians. We have video of the idf killing aid workers and trying to literally bury the evidence with bulldozers. Your “zero evidence” is silly. If you take revenge on an entire population because of what its ruling gang did, then yes that is deeply immoral. And the territorial conquests I’m talking about are the ones that Likud talks about openly. Netanyahu called “greater Israel” a “spiritual mission.”
You need to ask yourself why you’re attacking Israel — you’re being manipulated and radicalised by ideologically-driven lies and distortions. Clearly you’re brainwashed and lack critical thinking skills. That’s your problem.
Im disparaging Israel because Ive deeply researched the history of Judaism and Israel and its relationship with the United States and I believe that both are detrimental to the maximal flourishing of most Americans. I don't like Islam either -- or for that matter communism. Just because I disagree with you about something, or I believe something that kind of resembles something that someone you hate believes, doesn't mean I was brainwashed by them. Americans and Soviets both disliked Nazis. It didnt mean that Americans were brainwashed by the soviets.
I can assure you my critical thinking skills are top notch. And personally insulting my intelligence doesn't affect the validity of my arguments; anyone with decent critical thinking skills will understand that.
You need to ask yourself why you are accusing me of being brainwashed when my beliefs do not actually resemble what "brainwashing" would lead to.
Are you a worthy American, or do you not meet the benchmark for some mutable/immutable characteristic? Or is not being Jewish, Muslim, Nazi or communist all that is required? This is fascinating.
Being Jewish, Muslim, Nazi, Communist are all mutable characteristics, none of which I would say disqualifies someone alone for being a“worthy American”, let alone “worthy human.” And yes I consider *myself* “worthy.” I’m not a spiritual masochist.
You’re supporting a Nazi ideology IMO — Israel and the US are fighting evil, anti-Western forces that seek to commit genocide and cause chaos via terror and insidious ideological means. Wake up.
Uhh. what ideology am I supporting? I disdain Islam. I disdain Hamas. Saying I support a Nazi ideology because I disparage Israel is like someone saying in 1942 that because someone disparages Soviet Russia they must be supporting a Nazi ideology because Nazis hate the Soviets. Both Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany were immoral regimes. Both Iran and Israel are immoral regimes. Not complicated.
So you’re a nationalist and isolationist? Would you have been against the US entering WWII, or do you feel that was justified, but only because Japan attacked the US? Your position seems to be one of amoral utilitarianism and solipsism.
I don’t think the words “nationalist” or “isolationist” capture my philosophy adequately. And certainly not “amoral utilitarianism”, which would be internally contradictory as utilitarianism is a moral philosophy, and not “solipsism”, since that is a philosophy of mind which I certainly don’t believe. I believe you have a mind, just not one that has views that I think are moral. Thus clearly I am not “amoral.”
I would have been totally fine with the U.S entering world war 2, but not in the way it did. Should have focused on the pacific, and shouldnt have drafted people to their death to fight Hitler in Europe. Stalin would have likely done enough damage to Germany without needing to sacrifice American lives. The draft was the biggest problem with ww2.
Of course utilitarianism can be considered amoral — it focuses on the 'best' outcome for the majority, which can often be at the cost of values or rights for the minority. Just because it's a 'moral philosophy' doesn't mean it IS 'moral'. Who's to decide what is 'best' anyway — the majority regardless of what is right or fair? We've seen the Orwellian atrocities that ensue when that's the case.
No it’s not strictly based on the “majority”, but rather on whatever brings the most “happiness” or “utility” total. Depending on which utilitarianism sub philosophy you are referring to theoretically that could arise from the utility of a minority. Regardless, utilitarians traditionally viewed their philosophy as what *they* thought was moral. They were concerned with morality, as they perceived it, rather than not being concerned about morality, or “amoral.”
I personally, like you, don’t think [traditional] utilitarianism is morally right, but it’s not “amoral”. Gravity is amoral. Psychopaths are amoral. Utilitarians are moralists whose moral philosophy we both dislike. I think a better word would simply be “immoral”.
Anyway, as much as I’d enjoy a discussion of moral language, I think that is a distraction from the topic.
I think you are right about the problems of a majority determining what is best or basing what is best on the outcome of a majority. Often I think what is best for a minority is better and what a minority has decided what is best is better. In fact, ironically, that is partially what I named my substack publication based on—Minority Report. I encourage you to read my About. I wager you would discover I am certainly not the sort of “utilitarian” you conceive me as. I imagine you brought in a lot of inaccurate assumptions about me based on my views on Israel.
Lucy substack "Notes from the Ruins" is well worth the price of a subscription.