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JFunk's avatar
6dEdited

I wish this was true. Obviously, there are many instances where this is what is operating. And certainly on a unconscious level it is operating in some. But this doesn't speak to what I am seeing up close: Jews who are convinced of the lies and propaganda about Israel, who are unaware of the true level of antisemitism they are supporting, and who are more religious about their progressivism than their Judaism and believing themselves to be on the 'right side' of history by throwing in with those who vilify Israel. They do not think they are somehow saving themselves; they really believe what they are saying, and they really believe that Israel is 'causing antisemitism'. They are profoundly self-righteous and immune to hearing anything that questions their beliefs on this. I wish this could be addressed.. unfortunately, this article is a misunderstanding of what is going on in a large number of progressive Jews who this does not describe.

There is extensive and deep brainwashing and misinformation that we need to find a way of unraveling so that people can see what it is they are supporting when they condemn Israel in the way they do it now

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Sylvia Berman-Peck's avatar

I have seen the exact process you are describing… especially here in America, or places like Australia, where Jews have been able to live such open and free and comfortable lives. They simply cannot imagine the reality.

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Daisy Moses Chief Crackpot's avatar

yup, this too.... but "brainwarshin'" seems ta be internalized self-hate mixed with a false sense of joinin'-the-crowd self protection...no? (notta shrink but it's all dangerously vermischt!)

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JFunk's avatar

Yes, I agree. But the 'self hating' accusations tend not to land and function as an ad hominem which is ineffective in prompting any insight. When people use this it only shuts down any possibility for discussion and understanding. I might want to say instead internalized fear, which is probably more accurate. Many believe that they are honoring their Jewish faith or tradition by their words and actions condemning Israel.

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Daisy Moses Chief Crackpot's avatar

100% troo too! 'specially the FEAR part.

I agree the self-hatin' ad hominem is kind've a dead end--in terms of bein' non-productive--BUT it's also factual as we all try ta make sense of somethin' that SEEMS irrational...

Yep, I think fear drives self-destructive kompromat in the name of (sub?-) conscious self-protection.... mistakenly placed as we see...

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@isknot's avatar

JFunk and D.M.C.C. yes, terms like 'self-hating' and 'self-loathing' 'Jews' are long past their use-by-date. Personally I am not a fan of the overuse of terms such as 'antiyouknowwhatism' or 'holocaustim' or 'as a youknowwhatism'. I am talking 'overuse' as they have been over used for decades. Also, I think that "Jewish Values" came around soon enough to bite our own liberal minded backsides. "Jewish Values" always was and became increasingly so VERY anti any individual/group/organization that was actually practicing regularly our "Cultural Practices". Jewish IS liberal minded.

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Daisy Moses Chief Crackpot's avatar

I think we lack vocabulary an' got smacked in our back-sides recently, so "ve scramble" like eggs ta come up with a vay ta describe what is so unmöglich ta our minds... at least I didn't see it comin' like this! (I know sum did)

Yes, our jooish values ARE liberal-minded... but not unhinged liberal either. Meritocracy, not self-deprecatin' ourselfs due ta lack of proper intersectional (or interSEXional!) status... whatta mess the LEFT became! (I left the left over a deck-aid ago--but I ain't on the right an' there ain't no center! Inna kayak without a paddle so ta speak--a mite libertarian in that I don't like big gubbamint but liberal minded all da vey) Our tribe (whatever / however defined) is lost in the desert again :-(

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@isknot's avatar

we use our Indigenous 'liberal minded values' to a) let ourselves do anything we choose regardless of either the more stringent and/or more liberal minded values (i.e. a win-win even if we lose-lose) b) we are stringet towards are own people but oh, so very liberal-minded towards others especially those 'we view' as 'suffering' or 'victimized' etc. In yer terms such con-fused valueless values are Too-Loose to Trek the drek unto the derech. Too kin spiel dis lame game:)

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Daisy Moses Chief Crackpot's avatar

indeed but "ve"-who-see ain't the royal "we" ya describe --i.e. those all weez tick'in' with olam on their royal hine-asses lookin' down upon those've us who don't wanna bow down! ("hey man!" stop that cwazy sjw jive thang!)

but aside from the "ve" who ain't the "we"....I'll say tee hee as I couldn't'a said it bettah!:

"Too-Loose to Trek the drek unto the derech"

(...an' fergawdsakes take away their dang red paintbrushes--they've be'spattered an' redhanded far too much all'ready... per the original 2Louse...save it fer the Moulin Rouge!)

So nu? vy izit lame? keeps the bots avay! 'tis fun! zeyr shpas...

....an' away he'll schlep on his elephant shep.... watch out for that tree!

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JFunk's avatar

To clarify: I wish it was that simple because I think it would be easier to address

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@isknot's avatar

I'm not so sure that I agree with your opening sentence even though you start with "I wish". Whereas, I TOTALLY WHOLE HEARTEDLY agree with everything else that you stated. I hold The Talmudic Finger System in this case that A and B are simaulaneously true and antagonistic. And I'm fine with such dualities and paradoxes.

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JFunk's avatar

I wrote a clarifying comment earlier, but looks like it ended up as a reply to someone else's comment..

The "I wish.." was that I thought the premise of the article would make it much easier to respond to, whereas the reality is it is far more complicated than just being about 'fear'.

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Scott ROTHSTEIN's avatar

When J Street publicly calls out fellow jews (HEADLINE: “Silence is complicity”) for refusing to “demand” an immediate ceasefire, I see them as JUDENRAT.

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Des8's avatar

https://youtu.be/9zDZ-BjEisc?feature=shared documentary about JStreet worth watching

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Scott ROTHSTEIN's avatar

A fantastic Documentary demonstrating at J St. is truly, a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Thank you for sharing.

In my previous life, I was chairperson for the local JCRC in NW Ohio. J Street was just a minor annoyance at that time. It was only when they helped facilitate the destruction of the “bipartisan” support for Israel (some will thank former president BO for accomplishing this feat) But I saw how dangerous they have become.

I recommend everyone should watch this accurate documentary.

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Des8's avatar

There are more documentaries made by APT that are worth watching as well. They sounded the alarm decades ago starting with Columbia Unbecoming - unfortunately were not listened to by establishment leadership. Also see their book Betrayal: the Failure of American Jewish Leadership

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Susan Sullivan's avatar

In order to overcome, you must stand together 🙏

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Hilel Salomon's avatar

Unfortunately, this article minimizes the damage that Haaretz, Btselem and other haters cause. Why bother looking at Al Jazeera or the NY Times, when all the media are quick to quote the above groups. The article does point out that the term "self hating Jew" isn't apt. These are narcissistic Jews who forgot the first part of Hilel's famous saying: "If I'm not for myself who will be?" I keep looking for the letters, facebook posts and demonstrations which include young Jews, to mention the Rohyinga, Kurds, Uighurs, and scores of genocidal atrocities in Africa. I keep waiting for them to even mention the Spanish government-the one which is so pro-Palestinian- arresting Catalunyan leaders who were promoting autonomy. Somehow those leaders are "terrorists" but Hamas isn't.

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Beatrice Nora Caflun's avatar

Wonderful essay Joshua ( as always).....I could not believe that during the time of the encampments at Columbia University in New York, there were Jews for Palestine among the AntiZionists = Antisemites !!!!!!!!......... How could them be so brainless??????? .....

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Richard Hacker's avatar

Years ago, speaking to his fellow patriots, Benjamin Franklin said it best. "We must all hang together; or else, gentlemen, we will most assuredly will all hang separately."

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Christopher Messina's avatar

"Disagreement is natural. Debate is Jewish. But the willingness to dehumanize each other, especially when our enemies are taking detailed notes, is something else entirely. That is not righteous dissent; it is self-destruction."

We are sprinting into truly horrific times. Jews have already been murdered in DC and Colorado this year alone. I occasionally wade into the cesspool of X and if I thought the loud shitheads there were representative of the broader population in the USA, my family would already be in Israel.

The world sure does hate Jews. Most pronounced are the voices of losers who are now getting fame for spouting the same boring nonsense that created 1930s-1945 Germany.

It is not the last straw, but that asshole Mandy Patinkin nearly gave me a stroke. That putz made his entire wealth and career as a very Jewish actor playing very Jewish roles was, spouting off about how "dangerous to Jews" is Netanyahu - not HAMAS or IRAN, mind you - but the leader of Israel who is once more fighting an existential war for survival.

Kapo (formerly Comrade) Bernie Sanders HUGGED Mahmoud Khalil. Bernie REFUSED TO MEET WITH AMERICANS WHO HAD BEEN HELD HOSTAGE IN GAZA.

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Diane Steiner's avatar

I saw that Patinkin mouthpiece. He looked and sounded like a raving lunatic. He, Bernie Sanders, Jerry Nadler, and Chuck Schumer should sign into the same psychiatric center because they have truly forgotten who they are.

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Rena's avatar

I am a Zionist who does not shy away from admitting that Israel has sometimes done immoral and unethical things and still does. Being critical of Israel does not make me an anti-Semite. Neither does it make me someone who excuses anti-Semitic violence as you implied in the article. Be careful of what you imply. "antisemitically demonize Israel and excuse antisemitic violence." Being critical of what is going on in Israel is not antisemitic demonization and doesn't automatically come with supporting antisemitic violence.

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Laura's avatar

Be cognizant of the fact that your criticism of Israel may be based on falsehoods and blood libels.

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Rena's avatar

As are your denials of settler violence. I am not saying all settlers, but enough.

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Laura's avatar

The Myth of Settler Violence

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/settler-violence-myth

Congrats on being another useful idiot. How many more blood libels have you bought into.

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Viktor Khandourine's avatar

Unfortunately, all those who claim that "he only criticizes immoral and unethical actions" are, of course, right. There is no state, country, nation that would not commit immoral and unethical actions.

But after the first "correct" phrase (this is not even a mantra like "I admit that Israel committed unethical actions") follows a set of anti-Israeli cliches.

Yes, if you criticize Israel for the Lavon case, Yemeni children, the betrayal of the South Lebanese army, political scandals during the elections, then of course this is normal and correct.

But if after pronouncing this mantra you start talking about the "genocide of Palestinians", "violence of settlers", "indiscriminate bombing", "Netanyahu is deliberately prolonging the war", then this is simply a way to get an indulgence for denigration and demonization.

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Nicky's avatar

Indeed. Too often I see accusations like so many here of being self hating or anti semitic for any dissent. I’m certainly not anti Zionist or as far as JVP etc. But some are appalled at any criticism of Israeli government/policy/ the inevitable consequences of it. They accuse people like us of being self righteous. In turn I often see them as self righteous. To me, Judaism means caring about humanity. I cannot condone how far this has gone, with no vision for a sustainable future.

I see so many within Israel desperately trying to speak out in a way I support, yet here in the diaspora we are often ostracised for the same perspective. The path Israel is going down right now leads to only misery and pain for many many years to come. I want an Israel that can continue to exist in the world, and for our children not to be attacked because of some extremists politicians over there. It will take building bridges and dialogue. Neither side is going away so they need to work together to forge a future for both peoples.

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Laura's avatar

Caring about humanity should not extend to people whose aim is our annihilation. Too bad most of humanity does not care about us and in fact is not only indifferent to Jewish suffering but is gleeful over it. I lose patience with Jews who are activists for every other cause except that of our own people.

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UpsideDownWorld's avatar

“Caring about humanity,” don’t we all? What path does one who cares about all humans envision after 10/7? We have to overcome our naiveté waltzing through flower beds and man up realizing the existential threat that the islamists have clearly stated, they won’t stop until they destroy Israel and all Jews. They are ruining western culture evidenced by Britain, many parts of Europe, and Australia. We are merely the appetizer. Really, it is admissible and correct to destroy the enemy, even other humans, it’s simple, it’s called survival.

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JFunk's avatar

AND... there is a way that many Jews doing this seem to be unclear about how this 'justified' criticism (as there is always something that can be legitimately criticized.. especially in a war..) is being used to pile-on and justify and enable layers and layeres of blood libel.

Sometimes you need to be able to recognize when it is inappropriate to add to what is becoming a world-wide pogrom on Jews. There is a time and a place. This is neither. And if there is truly a need to speak about issues worthy of criticism, then in this climate, it should also require very clearly articulated disavowal of the aspects of criticism that are widely used and go well beyond anything resembling legitimate crticism. Anyone engaging in criticism and not doing this, is very much a part of the problem

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Rena's avatar

Well said and right where I stand. Victor lumped "violence of settlers" in with other talking points i would not necessarily say, but yes, any Settlers who burn olive fields, stop up wells and shoot at Palestinians have been a real problem.

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Michael Caplan's avatar

Thank you for your work! I thought you might find this interesting, by the composer Arnold Schoenberg, from his 1938 “A Four-Point Program for Jewry”":

"Primarily, the whole body is divided into three principal sections, hostile to each other, according to religion: orthodox, reformist, atheist; then each of these groups is broken according to socio-political principles into conservatives, liberals, socialists. Further, the origin of the Jews, as Western, Eastern, Oriental, again subdivides every group. And finally, each one of these geographic groups includes “nationalities” eager to preserve their respective peculiarities, proud of them, hostile toward all the others, and increasing the tendency to splinter into an almost unlimited number of “isms”. This is bad enough, but in fact it is still worse. Jews are individualists. Educated during thousands of years by their teachers in exegesis of the secrets of the Bible, they are accustomed to finding individual resolutions of their problems. They are now applying the same individualism in the field of politics. Probably every Jew will apply his own way of thinking, a home-made theory, a personal attitude to every problem he faces. Nothing could be more disastrous to a people than that."

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David Sager's avatar

Rena. You are a perfect example of the article. Unfortunately Josh pulls a lot of punches in order to not be dismissed by Jews on the left. I’m sorry you weren’t more direct. Then maybe Rena would get it.

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Carla Black's avatar

Two words: Bernie Sanders.

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Kevin Miner's avatar

Bernie Ocasio-Cortez

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Richard Baker's avatar

This reminds me of the sentiment attributed to Winston Churchill "An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile — hoping it will eat him last." This idea obviously is ancient as mentioned by the example of the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

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Kafr Dhimmi's avatar

Thanks Daisy and like the wise sage Bootsy Collins said “makes my funk da P funk I wants ta get funked up” talk about a subtle and direct ad hominem for soothe.

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Daisy Moses Chief Crackpot's avatar

love Bootsy! if only we kin git back ta one nayshun "under a groove!"

for the FUNK've it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WOZwwRH6XU

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Arthur Vasquez's avatar

Just like the "kapos" in the death camps, Belzec, Sobibor, Triblinka Auschwitz - Birkenau who helped the Nazi SS run the camps collecting Jews baggages helped on the unloading ramps even helped in the gas chambers yes they helped the Nazis to survive but eventually they too were executed even their fellow inmates turned against them I believe that it was a Jew who informed on Anne Frank and families

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Albert Koeman's avatar

It's unlikely Arnold van de Bergh betrayed the Frank family. As an Amsterdam notable he was a member of the 'Joodsche Raad' and you can argue this well meaning Council didn't do much good in the end. But betraying a single hiding adress was not in line with the interests and the dignity of the members - they tried to make deals with the nazis for groups of Jews. Besides, van den Bergh was already in hiding himself at the time of the sellout of 'het Achterhuis' in the town of Laren, while his children survived the war at their hiding adress in the village of Noord- Scharwoude.

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Napoleon Tunafarte's avatar

Key #1: NO ONE should ever know your business. If noone knows anything about you, they cant inform on you.

2: Fear. If fear drives people to do repulsive shit, ....stop being afraid.

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Ronald Silbermann's avatar

🗽

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