Israel will be vilified whatever she does. If there was ever any doubt there isn’t now. We have watched the world support an evil terrorist organisation over a democratic country that was attacked in the worst way possible. It’s almost unbelievable except it happened. Israel knows all this of course but Israel is different to all other nations. The Jewish people are a light unto the nations and that won’t change so we know they won’t plunder and rape and steal like other victorious armies have done but they absolutely must make Israel’s borders as safe and secure as possible for the Israeli people so I expect they will do that.
We have to stop giving a damn what the rest of the world thinks. Israel must start developing anything and everything it needs to fight wars, as well as other necessary commodities. She is certainly capable.
would posit that, besides a belief in co-existence as the motivation for not acquiring land of the defeated. Israel also sought to prevent the situation it currently faces for fighting back to vanquish the enemy - a level and intensity of opprobrium, even naked hatred, the likes of which most of us could not have anticipated. We have seen a delusional reversal of reality, in which Israel is vilified for responding to ensure her survival, and terrorists are viewed as victims. Eliminating terrorists, seizing their weapons supplies, dismantling terrorist infrastructure -- and the world responds with variations of "death to Israel"? Israel has no reason to be concerned with world approval - clearly, consensus opinion will be to blame Israel for existing, so Israel simply needs to do what is in the best interests of Israelis.
Don't count on Trump too much. It's already come out that he opposes Israeli annexation of Judea and Samaria, for now. I find this very concerning. I take that to mean he will try to make a deal for a two-state solution. When push comes to shove, Trump, like any other politician or president is thinking about his own legacy rather than crafting a Mideast policy that secures Israel. He wants to go down in history as having brought about Mideast "peace" even if in the long run it is at Israel's expense. I hope I'm wrong.
yes, yes, yes and YES. Absolutely. Even after Israel brings historic peace and coexistence to the Middle East and saves the world by preventing Iran from ever getting a nuclear bomb--Israel will be vilified. And if they take the land that they must?--even more so. BUT IT MUST BE DONE and the land should never be bargained away in the future. The Gazans need to be relocated and assimilated back into Arab lands, and never again should the idea of "land for peace" be considered; mainly because it was never really about LAND for the Arabs who call themselves "Palestinians." And certainly never about coexistence. They want ALL of Israel and the Jews dead and gone, period. That is stated in the terrorists' charters and by their actions for hundreds of years and certainly since 1948. I think Saudi Arabia will be fine with whatever Israel decides. The other moderate states will grumble and the idiot leftists in the Western World will scream--but that's just too bad. Their screams will be as meaningless as the leftists who are screaming about Trump being reelected: Most people are simply tuning them out. The United Nations will scream but they are on the verge of being totally exposed as corrupt, and then disbanded or completely overhauled. And Trump will surely support Israel's necessary land acquisition. Netanyahu will never again allow a terrorist state to form in the Middle East (Syria--take heed). Just pray that only strong leaders like Bibi will be elected in the future to continue overseeing the new Middle East.
The Abraham Accords need to be signed on to by Saudi Arabia, and as many other or the Arab nations as possible. (Normalization is an important tool in the tool box as well. (It might also act as an important protection for all non-Muslims living in the region). The Palestinean leaders have turned down every deal for a two-state solution as this has never been the real aim, unlike the partition that created India and Pakistan, which resulted in large geographic shifts in the Hindu and Muslim populations but resulted in fully functioning independent countries, and this is but one example. Look at Europe post WWII- huge population dislocations that were absorbed into other nations without this kind of on-going propaganda and unending ever present conflict. And I do not think, sadly, that is the aim of the Palestineans today. The Arab nations it could be said actually created the Palestinean refugee issue and need to own it. The partition in 1947 certainly caused population upheaval, but not only in Arabs who did not wish to live in a Jewish ruled country and chose to leave (whether under the guise of "stay in this refugee camp temporarily & when the British leave, we will force the Jews into the sea and the land will then be yours" or not, rather than assimilating and integrating their brethren. These same Arab nations created just as many Jewish refugees by forcing their Jews out of their native Arab ruled countries like Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, and every other ME Arab country, where these Jews who had lived peaceably for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. Rather than make them languish in "refugee camps" as stateless people, Israel absorbed and assimilated and integrated these refugees (and more) into Israel and made them citizens. It is time for the Arab nations to do the same with the Palestinean refugees. Ask why these people remain outside these countries? Ask why the political groups who exploit them have been thrown out of Jordan & Egypt, & pretty much everywhere else? Ask why they don't want them? How easy to ignore that Egypt and Jordan once controlled Gaza and the West Bank and did nothing for their fellow Arabs except use them as political and ideological fodder. How convenient to ignore the original diaspora of the Jews of that land that occurred at the hands of the Romans after the destruction of the First Temple on the Temple Mount in 70 CE. There is no perfect result here, but it is time for a reformation in the ME to recognize that Israel is here to stay, and deserves the same right to self-protection as any other nation. She has welcomed people and refugees of all faiths and stripes in her borders, including Muslims, Christians, Druze, LGBTQ (& yes, even Palestineans who chose to stay). How many Arab nations welcome them?
Yes, exactly true, all of this. I have no doubt the Abraham Accords will be signed by all and ... Israel will end up the protector of the Middle East, not America--and with America's blessing. Israel already is acting as the protector and very efficiently. When all this is said and done, no one else will have a voice in telling what Israel *should* do, or have power to stop them from doing what is necessary and Israel will be a stronger ally for America than ever before.
In my comment further down, I am against such a welcoming approach for non-Jews in Israel. Israel is a small country with pressing needs and a commitment to serve JEWS FIRST. The current wave of 1930s-style anti-Semitism in Western countries has forced thousands (if not millions) of Diaspora Jews to make Aliyah. They must be our number one priority.
I made no observation about what she needs to do going forward now that she is a well established state in a hostile region. I agree with the right of Israeli citizenship for all Jews and their families. I think Israel will need to look at migration and balance any inflow with what Douglas Murray calls mercy vs justice, and how to be able to keep being the Jewish democracy that she is. Clearly that means that anyone emigrating there must be a supporter and defender of the Jewish state (E.g. the Druze are not Jews, and yet those that live in Israel have been staunch supporters for their home).
I have suggested that all residents and citizens of Israel (regardless of faith) be required to denounce any religion or ideology (or parts thereof) which denigrates Jews/Judaism and/or calls for our destruction. Those who refuse to do this should be immediately deported. We can't have people who hate us living as citizens and residents.
Yes!! All this! No one wants to talk about the Jews refugees that Israel absorbed after pogroms in the other ME countries, while they purposely kept the Palestinians separate from their populations. How many Palestinians were originally Egyptian, Syrian, Lebanese, etc. so many things that ignorant people want to keep being ignorant about.
Trump will want something in return for supporting this revised map of Israel. Hopefully it's just a "piece of the action" in Israeli technology and other advancements - and not a restricting of Israeli sovereignty in any way.
They are getting something: a peacekeeper in the middle east and the only functioning democracy with western values which in turn acts as a beach head for western allies should the war escalate to a point where western participation becomes required. A pretty good deal if you ask me.
Taking Mt Hermon and The UN Buffer Zone to its north and east, prevents Terrorists from using the Highest points in The Golan to rain fire, or worse, down on Israel's North. It also acts to see the Anti-Semitic Elements in parts of The West's Media, who break cover by describing these Military necessities as 'Occupied Territory'. This Jew-baiting has already started on BBC World News.
I totally agree, but one point is missing. You have to WIN the war first and that involves bringing your enemy to its knees. And that is what Israel must do. THEN, it is in a position to take whatever land it wants. That is how wars are settled.
Yep, the double standard applied against Israel is pretty blatant. Bleep the Palestinians, as they have made it clear they don’t want any kind of peace. Actions have repercussions! FAFO!
I'd say it's actually a triple standard: 1. the normal standard the West applies to itself; 2. the higher standard reserved only for Israel; and, 3, the lowest standard, granted to the infantilized Palestinians.
I like it. Clean, simple, historically validated. Of course, the world may see it differently, but no matter what little Israel does, it will be condemned. If you lose a war that you started, you don’t get to dictate the terms of surrender.
Israel gets bigger every time it’s attacked! I fear the neighbors will never settle for peaceful coexistence. Israel must do what it must do-protect itself.
"This is not a call for indiscriminate annexation, but a pragmatic recognition that peace cannot be achieved while enemies are free to use land as both shield and sword. To those who might bristle at such measures, a simple rebuttal suffices: History agrees. Aggressors who lose wars lose land. Why should this conflict be any different?"
To answer the last question, this conflict — indeed all conflicts post 1945 — is required by International Law to be different. Given the UN's open, heartfelt animus for Israel, any seizure of land through war would only be taken by the UN as justification to dissolve this much hated state and sweep its people into oblivion. Such is the world we live in.
The Bidenverse’s demands are going away. We are not free of the Deep State yet, but we can abolish the Federal agencies within which it lives and fire their employees.
You write: 'But how can Israel do this in the face of an entire world including the United States that demands that they don't'. Not so, Doug. We are protecting Europe, and America too. The West is with us. So Find Good heart and be of good cheer my friend. The West is with Israel, and both of us know this.
The Golan: OK. The Druzes need protection against the jihadist hoodlums. Lebanon was held hostage by Hezbollah and the Lebanese Christians are in the same boat as Israel. Israel should make sure there is a stable and friendly Christian country in the north. Annexing a part of Lebanon will not help to achieve that. Gaza is pathetically small. The only way to get strategic depth here is to either murder or expel the Gazans, which are unacceptable solutions from an ethical point of view.
They’re not welcome there. It would rapidly become a new Gaza. The only thing keeping the West Bank up and running is a fragile coalition majority for Fatah. If Hamas could they’d pretty much do the same to that government what they did to Israel on October 7th and few people are more aware of this fact than the officials of the West Bank.
The very second they’re welcomed the green bandannas comes off and civilian clothes come on.
Then how to sort them out?
Hamas is not seeking a piece of land to call home. Hamas mission is to have every home in the world standing on their land.
Every "Palestinian" must be offered a choice. Either continue the "heroic" life of a jihadist and be locked up in an open air asylum, like will happen anyway with all remaining members of Hamas and other salafist outlets, or citizenship of the city state of Gaza. The city state will be strictly secular and initially ruled by Israel, until a new loyal cadre of secular Gazans has been trained. All madrassas will be banned. All mosques will be strictly government controlled. It will be ruled by fair, secular laws and be accused by Amnesty to be a high-tech police state, which should be considered a compliment in this case. All minor jihadists activities, including intimidation, spreading Islamism or corruption, will result in re-education in the open air asylum. All capital offenses will receive more severe repercussions.
There are so many holes in this argument, beginning with the West Bank. But let’s just speak of Judaism. We’re not supposed to be like other nations. We’re to be “a light to the nations.” We should find a solution consistent with Judaism’s highest values—honoring the dignity of all human beings. Even if they don’t yet honor us. Peace will never come from using military might over an unwilling people. Even Johnson’s civil war analogy doesn’t hold.
Welcome to the 'Forever War' which is The Middle East, Rabbi Gerard. The Middle East has been Genocidal for 10,000 years. Latest instalment: Hamas (1200 murdered Jewish civilians, which started The Gaza War) and Assad (who has just murdered 750,000 Syrians). Go look at the Assyrian Genocide recorded in 8000 BCE, (documented in The British Museum) where fully one third of the region's inhabitants were killed by them in a single war. So, Israel needs massive strength against Gaza and The West Bank TO STOP THIS HAPPENING AGAIN TO US! The Jewish People are not genocidal, Mr Gerard. What we face is Genocide: The Nazi Party has Re-Formed in London and Berlin, and we monitors have heard Hamas is in formal Alliance with them: All documented and verified.
Ideally, your point would be enough, but realistically, it doesn't work that way, in the rough neighborhood where Israel sits. Israel did exactly what you proposed, when it left Gaza in 2005. As Josh pointed out, Israel got terror missiles, suicide bombings and terror tunnels in return, culminating in 10/7. Terror also skyrocketed after the Oslo Accords. The more Israel gives, the more terror they get. So try the opposite, to obtain the opposite results. I'm sure you're familiar with the classic definition of insanity. Time to be sane and try a different approach, since you've seen that the high road never worked when dealing with jihadists. Wish it weren't so...
People who only value the ability to kill, destroy and make people suffer have contempt for kindness and compassion, and see it as weakness and an opportunity to cause more suffering. You can't nice someone like that into coexistence.
Dear Learned Rabbi (and I mean that sincerely and respectfully - even though I don't know anything about you - yet). Are you Woke or Progressive? Are you Anti-Trump and Pro-Democratic Party? Do you have BDS? (Bibi Derangement Syndrome). Do you suffer from an overabundance of Kindness? I don't use Chesed because that implies the counter balance of Gevorah as well as the scale of justice Tifferes. Kindness on the other hand is a Xtian perversion of our wisdom Sources. And I mean all of that lovingly and in the same spirt as "Dear Learned Rabbi". When discussing The Land of Israel even under the guise of The State of Israel it may be beneficial if all coming to the table of discussion have passed the Test Question: Have You Left Your Cognitive Dissonance at the Door Before Entering The Room of Discussion? Sincerely yours in mirth and jest.
Every group has a spectrum. The challenge for all good people is to move the Palestinian leadership from the extreme to the center or peaceful end of the spectrum. Extremists in both camps have undermined every attempt at a solution. Israelis and Palestinians must neutralize their extremists. (Admittedly, Arab intransigence has pushed Israelis to the right. But also, Israel’s victories have failed to end Palestinian nationalism—no matter how artificial it initially was.) Both sides need to address their own extremists rather than complain about the other’s.
Wow! You can not be serious about "Extremists in both camps have undermined every attempt at a solution. Israelis and Palestinians must neutralize their extremists." Any person who seriously equivocates between Arabs and Jews is either unbelievably naive or not capable of logical thinking. Or both.
My comment applies to what both you and the author of this article wrote. I agree with your premise that it won’t work Rabbi. But, unfortunately not because Israel is “a light to the nations.” (Even though it’s a wonderful thought). It just isn’t pragmatic. World Wars I and II were considerably different than Israel’s issues with terrorists Hamas and Hezbollah. More than 2/3 of the world was ecstatic when the allies won the wars. There was very little negative blowback. Fast forward to now. Twelve million Jews against most of the world. The numbers don’t add up. I think the blowback against Israel would be extremely more negative complete with unexpected consequences. I admire Netanyahu and always have. Hopefully, he’ll do the right thing. Am Yisrael Chai.
Squeezing the Gazans on an even tinier sliver of land will not solve the main problem. There are two million people there and this amount is growing at a fast rate.
By that logic, giving them more land would calm them down. True, only if "more land" means every inch of Israel.
The thing is, Gazans don't have to like the results - they only have to learn that attacking Israel brings catastrophe. If Gazans are restored to 100% of what they had before 10/7, they have zero incentive not to repeat 10/7. There needs to be a price.
That price will be denazification, in this case, ruthless de-jihadization and secularization. The "Palestinian" identity as the vanguard of the islamic jihad against the infidel Jews must be genocided and converted into peaceful citizens of the Gazan city state.
Israel will be vilified whatever she does. If there was ever any doubt there isn’t now. We have watched the world support an evil terrorist organisation over a democratic country that was attacked in the worst way possible. It’s almost unbelievable except it happened. Israel knows all this of course but Israel is different to all other nations. The Jewish people are a light unto the nations and that won’t change so we know they won’t plunder and rape and steal like other victorious armies have done but they absolutely must make Israel’s borders as safe and secure as possible for the Israeli people so I expect they will do that.
Am Israel chai
Bring them home
We have to stop giving a damn what the rest of the world thinks. Israel must start developing anything and everything it needs to fight wars, as well as other necessary commodities. She is certainly capable.
would posit that, besides a belief in co-existence as the motivation for not acquiring land of the defeated. Israel also sought to prevent the situation it currently faces for fighting back to vanquish the enemy - a level and intensity of opprobrium, even naked hatred, the likes of which most of us could not have anticipated. We have seen a delusional reversal of reality, in which Israel is vilified for responding to ensure her survival, and terrorists are viewed as victims. Eliminating terrorists, seizing their weapons supplies, dismantling terrorist infrastructure -- and the world responds with variations of "death to Israel"? Israel has no reason to be concerned with world approval - clearly, consensus opinion will be to blame Israel for existing, so Israel simply needs to do what is in the best interests of Israelis.
The UN and its lackey agencies should be expelled from the Western world.
Wouldn't surprise me if Trump finds ways to seriously de-fund the UN. That would be a big help.
Don't count on Trump too much. It's already come out that he opposes Israeli annexation of Judea and Samaria, for now. I find this very concerning. I take that to mean he will try to make a deal for a two-state solution. When push comes to shove, Trump, like any other politician or president is thinking about his own legacy rather than crafting a Mideast policy that secures Israel. He wants to go down in history as having brought about Mideast "peace" even if in the long run it is at Israel's expense. I hope I'm wrong.
He is not committing himself to anything but in this Times of Israel article it certainly doesn't sound like he supports a two state solution. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/i-support-whatever-gets-us-to-peace-trump-refrains-from-backing-two-state-solution/
Good to know.
I was not aware of Trump's stand on Judea/Samaria. I will look into it further.
It is easier said than done. Ought. But then what would the West finance when it stopped financing terror? and the UN.
yes, yes, yes and YES. Absolutely. Even after Israel brings historic peace and coexistence to the Middle East and saves the world by preventing Iran from ever getting a nuclear bomb--Israel will be vilified. And if they take the land that they must?--even more so. BUT IT MUST BE DONE and the land should never be bargained away in the future. The Gazans need to be relocated and assimilated back into Arab lands, and never again should the idea of "land for peace" be considered; mainly because it was never really about LAND for the Arabs who call themselves "Palestinians." And certainly never about coexistence. They want ALL of Israel and the Jews dead and gone, period. That is stated in the terrorists' charters and by their actions for hundreds of years and certainly since 1948. I think Saudi Arabia will be fine with whatever Israel decides. The other moderate states will grumble and the idiot leftists in the Western World will scream--but that's just too bad. Their screams will be as meaningless as the leftists who are screaming about Trump being reelected: Most people are simply tuning them out. The United Nations will scream but they are on the verge of being totally exposed as corrupt, and then disbanded or completely overhauled. And Trump will surely support Israel's necessary land acquisition. Netanyahu will never again allow a terrorist state to form in the Middle East (Syria--take heed). Just pray that only strong leaders like Bibi will be elected in the future to continue overseeing the new Middle East.
The Abraham Accords need to be signed on to by Saudi Arabia, and as many other or the Arab nations as possible. (Normalization is an important tool in the tool box as well. (It might also act as an important protection for all non-Muslims living in the region). The Palestinean leaders have turned down every deal for a two-state solution as this has never been the real aim, unlike the partition that created India and Pakistan, which resulted in large geographic shifts in the Hindu and Muslim populations but resulted in fully functioning independent countries, and this is but one example. Look at Europe post WWII- huge population dislocations that were absorbed into other nations without this kind of on-going propaganda and unending ever present conflict. And I do not think, sadly, that is the aim of the Palestineans today. The Arab nations it could be said actually created the Palestinean refugee issue and need to own it. The partition in 1947 certainly caused population upheaval, but not only in Arabs who did not wish to live in a Jewish ruled country and chose to leave (whether under the guise of "stay in this refugee camp temporarily & when the British leave, we will force the Jews into the sea and the land will then be yours" or not, rather than assimilating and integrating their brethren. These same Arab nations created just as many Jewish refugees by forcing their Jews out of their native Arab ruled countries like Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, and every other ME Arab country, where these Jews who had lived peaceably for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. Rather than make them languish in "refugee camps" as stateless people, Israel absorbed and assimilated and integrated these refugees (and more) into Israel and made them citizens. It is time for the Arab nations to do the same with the Palestinean refugees. Ask why these people remain outside these countries? Ask why the political groups who exploit them have been thrown out of Jordan & Egypt, & pretty much everywhere else? Ask why they don't want them? How easy to ignore that Egypt and Jordan once controlled Gaza and the West Bank and did nothing for their fellow Arabs except use them as political and ideological fodder. How convenient to ignore the original diaspora of the Jews of that land that occurred at the hands of the Romans after the destruction of the First Temple on the Temple Mount in 70 CE. There is no perfect result here, but it is time for a reformation in the ME to recognize that Israel is here to stay, and deserves the same right to self-protection as any other nation. She has welcomed people and refugees of all faiths and stripes in her borders, including Muslims, Christians, Druze, LGBTQ (& yes, even Palestineans who chose to stay). How many Arab nations welcome them?
Yes, exactly true, all of this. I have no doubt the Abraham Accords will be signed by all and ... Israel will end up the protector of the Middle East, not America--and with America's blessing. Israel already is acting as the protector and very efficiently. When all this is said and done, no one else will have a voice in telling what Israel *should* do, or have power to stop them from doing what is necessary and Israel will be a stronger ally for America than ever before.
In my comment further down, I am against such a welcoming approach for non-Jews in Israel. Israel is a small country with pressing needs and a commitment to serve JEWS FIRST. The current wave of 1930s-style anti-Semitism in Western countries has forced thousands (if not millions) of Diaspora Jews to make Aliyah. They must be our number one priority.
I made no observation about what she needs to do going forward now that she is a well established state in a hostile region. I agree with the right of Israeli citizenship for all Jews and their families. I think Israel will need to look at migration and balance any inflow with what Douglas Murray calls mercy vs justice, and how to be able to keep being the Jewish democracy that she is. Clearly that means that anyone emigrating there must be a supporter and defender of the Jewish state (E.g. the Druze are not Jews, and yet those that live in Israel have been staunch supporters for their home).
I have suggested that all residents and citizens of Israel (regardless of faith) be required to denounce any religion or ideology (or parts thereof) which denigrates Jews/Judaism and/or calls for our destruction. Those who refuse to do this should be immediately deported. We can't have people who hate us living as citizens and residents.
Yes!! All this! No one wants to talk about the Jews refugees that Israel absorbed after pogroms in the other ME countries, while they purposely kept the Palestinians separate from their populations. How many Palestinians were originally Egyptian, Syrian, Lebanese, etc. so many things that ignorant people want to keep being ignorant about.
Trump will want something in return for supporting this revised map of Israel. Hopefully it's just a "piece of the action" in Israeli technology and other advancements - and not a restricting of Israeli sovereignty in any way.
They are getting something: a peacekeeper in the middle east and the only functioning democracy with western values which in turn acts as a beach head for western allies should the war escalate to a point where western participation becomes required. A pretty good deal if you ask me.
Taking Mt Hermon and The UN Buffer Zone to its north and east, prevents Terrorists from using the Highest points in The Golan to rain fire, or worse, down on Israel's North. It also acts to see the Anti-Semitic Elements in parts of The West's Media, who break cover by describing these Military necessities as 'Occupied Territory'. This Jew-baiting has already started on BBC World News.
I totally agree, but one point is missing. You have to WIN the war first and that involves bringing your enemy to its knees. And that is what Israel must do. THEN, it is in a position to take whatever land it wants. That is how wars are settled.
Yep, the double standard applied against Israel is pretty blatant. Bleep the Palestinians, as they have made it clear they don’t want any kind of peace. Actions have repercussions! FAFO!
I'd say it's actually a triple standard: 1. the normal standard the West applies to itself; 2. the higher standard reserved only for Israel; and, 3, the lowest standard, granted to the infantilized Palestinians.
I cannot disagree
I like it. Clean, simple, historically validated. Of course, the world may see it differently, but no matter what little Israel does, it will be condemned. If you lose a war that you started, you don’t get to dictate the terms of surrender.
Israel gets bigger every time it’s attacked! I fear the neighbors will never settle for peaceful coexistence. Israel must do what it must do-protect itself.
For starters, everything north of Gaza city. "Gaza Plains" serving as a southern Golan Heights.
"This is not a call for indiscriminate annexation, but a pragmatic recognition that peace cannot be achieved while enemies are free to use land as both shield and sword. To those who might bristle at such measures, a simple rebuttal suffices: History agrees. Aggressors who lose wars lose land. Why should this conflict be any different?"
To answer the last question, this conflict — indeed all conflicts post 1945 — is required by International Law to be different. Given the UN's open, heartfelt animus for Israel, any seizure of land through war would only be taken by the UN as justification to dissolve this much hated state and sweep its people into oblivion. Such is the world we live in.
It is the UN and its lacky agencies that should be swept into oblivion.
The UN is way past its sell by date. It's high time it was disbanded. We don't need them, or any of their agencies.
Absolutely correct. But how can Israel do this in the face of an entire world including the United States that demands that they don't.
The Bidenverse’s demands are going away. We are not free of the Deep State yet, but we can abolish the Federal agencies within which it lives and fire their employees.
You write: 'But how can Israel do this in the face of an entire world including the United States that demands that they don't'. Not so, Doug. We are protecting Europe, and America too. The West is with us. So Find Good heart and be of good cheer my friend. The West is with Israel, and both of us know this.
Many of us seem to have the exact same question, don’t we? 🙁
Israel should do what it is necessary to maintain strategic depth including Gaza and the areas in the Golan and Lebanon
The Golan: OK. The Druzes need protection against the jihadist hoodlums. Lebanon was held hostage by Hezbollah and the Lebanese Christians are in the same boat as Israel. Israel should make sure there is a stable and friendly Christian country in the north. Annexing a part of Lebanon will not help to achieve that. Gaza is pathetically small. The only way to get strategic depth here is to either murder or expel the Gazans, which are unacceptable solutions from an ethical point of view.
Why not expel them to the West Bank?
They’re not welcome there. It would rapidly become a new Gaza. The only thing keeping the West Bank up and running is a fragile coalition majority for Fatah. If Hamas could they’d pretty much do the same to that government what they did to Israel on October 7th and few people are more aware of this fact than the officials of the West Bank.
The very second they’re welcomed the green bandannas comes off and civilian clothes come on.
Then how to sort them out?
Hamas is not seeking a piece of land to call home. Hamas mission is to have every home in the world standing on their land.
Amen, Joshua. The Land.
Every "Palestinian" must be offered a choice. Either continue the "heroic" life of a jihadist and be locked up in an open air asylum, like will happen anyway with all remaining members of Hamas and other salafist outlets, or citizenship of the city state of Gaza. The city state will be strictly secular and initially ruled by Israel, until a new loyal cadre of secular Gazans has been trained. All madrassas will be banned. All mosques will be strictly government controlled. It will be ruled by fair, secular laws and be accused by Amnesty to be a high-tech police state, which should be considered a compliment in this case. All minor jihadists activities, including intimidation, spreading Islamism or corruption, will result in re-education in the open air asylum. All capital offenses will receive more severe repercussions.
There are so many holes in this argument, beginning with the West Bank. But let’s just speak of Judaism. We’re not supposed to be like other nations. We’re to be “a light to the nations.” We should find a solution consistent with Judaism’s highest values—honoring the dignity of all human beings. Even if they don’t yet honor us. Peace will never come from using military might over an unwilling people. Even Johnson’s civil war analogy doesn’t hold.
Welcome to the 'Forever War' which is The Middle East, Rabbi Gerard. The Middle East has been Genocidal for 10,000 years. Latest instalment: Hamas (1200 murdered Jewish civilians, which started The Gaza War) and Assad (who has just murdered 750,000 Syrians). Go look at the Assyrian Genocide recorded in 8000 BCE, (documented in The British Museum) where fully one third of the region's inhabitants were killed by them in a single war. So, Israel needs massive strength against Gaza and The West Bank TO STOP THIS HAPPENING AGAIN TO US! The Jewish People are not genocidal, Mr Gerard. What we face is Genocide: The Nazi Party has Re-Formed in London and Berlin, and we monitors have heard Hamas is in formal Alliance with them: All documented and verified.
Ideally, your point would be enough, but realistically, it doesn't work that way, in the rough neighborhood where Israel sits. Israel did exactly what you proposed, when it left Gaza in 2005. As Josh pointed out, Israel got terror missiles, suicide bombings and terror tunnels in return, culminating in 10/7. Terror also skyrocketed after the Oslo Accords. The more Israel gives, the more terror they get. So try the opposite, to obtain the opposite results. I'm sure you're familiar with the classic definition of insanity. Time to be sane and try a different approach, since you've seen that the high road never worked when dealing with jihadists. Wish it weren't so...
People who only value the ability to kill, destroy and make people suffer have contempt for kindness and compassion, and see it as weakness and an opportunity to cause more suffering. You can't nice someone like that into coexistence.
Perfect description of jihadists.
Don’t agree. Read my comment for a different take.
Where do you live? In heaven? We live on earth.
Dear Learned Rabbi (and I mean that sincerely and respectfully - even though I don't know anything about you - yet). Are you Woke or Progressive? Are you Anti-Trump and Pro-Democratic Party? Do you have BDS? (Bibi Derangement Syndrome). Do you suffer from an overabundance of Kindness? I don't use Chesed because that implies the counter balance of Gevorah as well as the scale of justice Tifferes. Kindness on the other hand is a Xtian perversion of our wisdom Sources. And I mean all of that lovingly and in the same spirt as "Dear Learned Rabbi". When discussing The Land of Israel even under the guise of The State of Israel it may be beneficial if all coming to the table of discussion have passed the Test Question: Have You Left Your Cognitive Dissonance at the Door Before Entering The Room of Discussion? Sincerely yours in mirth and jest.
Every group has a spectrum. The challenge for all good people is to move the Palestinian leadership from the extreme to the center or peaceful end of the spectrum. Extremists in both camps have undermined every attempt at a solution. Israelis and Palestinians must neutralize their extremists. (Admittedly, Arab intransigence has pushed Israelis to the right. But also, Israel’s victories have failed to end Palestinian nationalism—no matter how artificial it initially was.) Both sides need to address their own extremists rather than complain about the other’s.
Wow! You can not be serious about "Extremists in both camps have undermined every attempt at a solution. Israelis and Palestinians must neutralize their extremists." Any person who seriously equivocates between Arabs and Jews is either unbelievably naive or not capable of logical thinking. Or both.
My comment applies to what both you and the author of this article wrote. I agree with your premise that it won’t work Rabbi. But, unfortunately not because Israel is “a light to the nations.” (Even though it’s a wonderful thought). It just isn’t pragmatic. World Wars I and II were considerably different than Israel’s issues with terrorists Hamas and Hezbollah. More than 2/3 of the world was ecstatic when the allies won the wars. There was very little negative blowback. Fast forward to now. Twelve million Jews against most of the world. The numbers don’t add up. I think the blowback against Israel would be extremely more negative complete with unexpected consequences. I admire Netanyahu and always have. Hopefully, he’ll do the right thing. Am Yisrael Chai.
Squeezing the Gazans on an even tinier sliver of land will not solve the main problem. There are two million people there and this amount is growing at a fast rate.
By that logic, giving them more land would calm them down. True, only if "more land" means every inch of Israel.
The thing is, Gazans don't have to like the results - they only have to learn that attacking Israel brings catastrophe. If Gazans are restored to 100% of what they had before 10/7, they have zero incentive not to repeat 10/7. There needs to be a price.
That price will be denazification, in this case, ruthless de-jihadization and secularization. The "Palestinian" identity as the vanguard of the islamic jihad against the infidel Jews must be genocided and converted into peaceful citizens of the Gazan city state.
Forced birth control is a wonderful idea.. think the UN will go for it?