I believe every word. Why not? Non-believers ask for proof it happened. I ask for definitive proof it didn't happen, not speculation or what agnostics or atheists believe. Show me the proof it didn't happen. Do you believe in miracles? We walk everyday amongst miracles, most of us blind and deaf to them.
For those of us who have seen both supernatural evil and true miracles of God in our lives (with objective, observable confirmation), it is very easy to believe the story as recorded. New archeological finds confirm scripture almost every year. I will not be surprised when evidence begins to appear.
If you are going to make a claim, you need evidence to support it, otherwise it is safe to assume that that claim is false. Evidence it is a myth: Big Bang theory, evolution, etc. I love the story and I do believe that there could be some truth in it, but the magical miracles are just too far-fetched for me to believe in.
Here's some evidence- the existence of foie gras! Dan Barber's viral TED Talk on how Jewish slaves under Pharaoh were forced to find a way to make a seasonal speciality an all year round dish...
And there is evidence of Jewish people in Egypt during the period in question. Plus, we know that certain forms of slavery were unlikely to leave extensive archaeological evidence- with the Roman Empire agricultural, mining and quarry slaves left very little trace- unlike educated, household and artisan class slaves (and sex workers)- who were treated far more humanely.
That being said, the Red Sea is likely a mistranslation and the 600,000 mentioned in written sources, an over-exaggeration.
Then again, recent evidence shows that the numbers quoted in historical accounts of the Persian army numbers at the battle of Thermopylae have also been shown to be a gross exaggeration.
Herodotus is often called the "Father of History", yet we now know the Persian numbers at the battle were no more than 100,000 to 300,000- far lower than the close to 2 million he claimed.
Though there may not be archaeological evidence yet, the proof of the exodus is us, the Jewish people and our continued existence. History as we know it continues to change almost daily due to new technologies. Look what they have discovered under the pyramids, an entire city, places we thought were always frozen have turned out to have been verdant green forests in another age. The same will hold true for us Jews. Just wait. Chag Sameach to all.
Blasphemy! I'm a Christian Zionist & I know The Passover did indeed happen b/c G-d said so! G-d does not lie! What a disgraceful article to write on one of the Holiest Days of the year! 👎
Happy blessed Passover to all my Jewish friends. Chag Sameach!
I’m a Christian, too. The Passover is a myth, a story with enormous formative and sustaining power. There have been other myths -none but this one survived the civilizations that formed them. It formed and sustained the Jews; it continues those actions in the Christians too. We Christians believe that God intended this story, to communicate Truth in narrative form. And what God does is never heresy.
Not at all. The Exodus myth speaks Truth about the saving power of God, and the human struggle to co-operate with it. That saving power is actually fulfilled in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Don’t underestimate the power of myth -it isn’t just a fairy tale.
Just as at one extreme not every fairy tale is a Myth, so also at the other end not every Myth is historical Truth. Of course the Resurrection happened. It isn’t a Myth. That’s why we follow Him, and the only reason why we no longer follow the Jewish faith.
I wonder if you see the word ‘myth’ and think it means ‘just a fairytale, not true at all’? That isn’t what biblical myths are. They’re ways of telling the Truth. Like the Genesis account of Creation, the Passover myth is not scientific, historical fact, but rich in meaning, a meaning that’s essential for the salvation of the world.
Jesus Christ is the living Word of God. He is the entirety of God’s Word.
Can every single word of the Bible be true? Really? The Bible was written over a very long period of time by different groups of human beings. Those human beings were limited by their own environments and cultures, as are we. They didn’t know the Earth is a globe. They told stories to explain things of which they had no knowledge -and they knew they were stories. They knew the stories were limited. We’re the ones who have often forgotten that. God doesn’t want babies’ heads smashed against walls, or innocent girls chopped up into twelve pieces as a sign. How would that be compatible with a God who is Love itself? But those ancient documents of the Jewish Testament do contain Truth, the Truth we need. We just have to work out which is which.
Of course. But the Bible isn’t G-d’s word. That Word is the Person of Jesus Christ. The Scriptures contain everything we need to have written down for our salvation, but not everything written there is salvific. Sometimes a washing list is just a washing list.
Myth is truth, not fact and not a lie. It exists in an order of its own. It tells the truth about a human experience. And plenty of myths have survived the civilizations that envisioned them. Read Ancient Greek literature
I do read it, or did as a child. I agree that myth tells a truth about human experience, but I don’t believe the ancient Greek myths are still a source of spiritual nourishment today.
I don’t disagree. But no-one now living uses the literature of the Ancient Greeks for guidance in their daily lives. I don’t know whether they ever did.
Some years ago I was invited by a Jewish friend to join him and his family for Seder. It was a remarkable experience. I was loaned a copy of the Haggadah with parallel Hebrew and English text so that I could follow the ritual. As a Baha'i, whose faith has strong connections to the land of Israel (but much more recent than those of the People of Israel), I was conscious of the privilege of participating in the Seder and Passover Meal.
Through out history people have shared stories through myth, It is a tradition for many aboriginal people live by today. I don't think I ever saw any story shared in the Torah or in the New Testament either as absolute history. The stories in the Torah and i suspect other religious texts were never meant to be a history, they are pointing to truths or ways of seeing and being in the world that support us to be better humans!
Love the food at seders; charosets (nuts, raisin, honey, some folk add ground up apples and other tasties) on matzoh, yum. Gefilte fish, love it, even better with red beet horseradish. Hard boiled eggs, yum. Then comes the roast turkey or brisket with gravy, maybe lamb, roasted potatoes, flavored string beans, and 4 glasses of wine to wash it all down in a Jewish soul food unsteady haze. Matzoh ball soup! What's not to like?
Not offended. It IS really bad food.:-) The Seder part is meant to have bitter foods and such, but even so, you will be hard-pressed to find a cookbook titled, "The Art of Fine Jewish Cuisine." And though there are some wonderful Jewish recipes, you likely will never find a Michelin-starred restaurant serving "Fine Jewish Cuisine."
Funny. I think classic NY delicatessen food is darned good: corned beef on rye, pastrami. Not much cooking involved in that, of course. Great falafel on the street, but that's not exactly Jewish food.
I've been to Israel and I ate pretty good there. But I can't say it was memorable.
If the story isn’t true, the Torah and NT aren’t true, therefore the whole Jewish nation and history is built on a lie. Which would mean Jews have no particular right to the land that Palestinian Arabs claim. Israel as a Jewish nationality has no more right to exist than any other nation of peoples.
The only reason that Israel, the nation, the people, that even Christianity exists is because of the exodus and the fact/ truth, that the patriarchs existed and God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob promised them that specific little piece of earth to be theirs alone and forever.
No. A myth is just that. It’s a story. It has no root or basis. It’s a lie . It’s the same lie as the Palestinians use so the myth of their being the original inhabitants becomes the truth. It is still a lie. The Passover story is not a myth. It is truth, fact, history and recorded as such in tanakh. If it is a myth then the whole of Jewish history is nothing but a pack of cards.
Then what are the promises? The blessings and curses? Of what purpose the commandments and the law? For what reason were the Jews persecuted? Without God there is no reason for the Jewish people to exist. Without the Passover and the exodus there would be no Israel. Jews are people separated out from the nations for a purpose and it is He who has brought them home as He promised He would through the prophets. To deny the Passover and the exodus is to deny the roots and the purpose of Israel, to deny the very existence of God.
exactly. myths are important psychological tools for humans. History , as Jonathan Sacks z"l said so well, is me-story. a powerful memory from our ancestors
There is both historical and archaeological evidence that what the Bible says is absolutely true - not only on the Passover and the history of the Jews, but on everything else as well. God doesn't lie. I would rather take His word for it than the words of fallible scientists and archaeologists, who are continually being forced to change their theories because of new evidence being discovered. By contrast, the Bible has never once been disproved on any issue. For those who would really like to know more, I can recommend Patterns of Evidence. You can Google it. Excellent research and very interesting.
The story of the Exodus is extraordinary indeed, but the story of modern Israel is no less a miracle.
A people exiled for nearly 2,000 years were, against all odds, brought back to their ancient homeland. Despite global protest, war, and overwhelming enemies, they survived—and thrived.
If you struggle to believe in the parting of the Red Sea, consider the modern-day “parting” of political barriers—when powerful nations refused to let the Jewish people go, yet God made a way once again.
The Bible even foresaw this shift:
“‘The days are coming,’ declares the Lord, ‘when people will no longer say, ‘As surely as the Lord lives, who brought the Israelites up out of Egypt,’ but they will say, ‘As surely as the Lord lives, who brought the Israelites up out of the land of the north and out of all the countries where he had banished them.’”
— Jeremiah 16:14–15
If we struggle to believe in the Red Sea miracle, consider the modern exodus—when God made a way through political iron curtains and closed borders. If modern ‘scrolls’ survive into the distant future, generations thousands of years from now may look back and be even more amazed at what God accomplished in our time. And yet, as with the miracles of old, some will still choose not to believe—because the truth sounds too incredible to be real.
If History were a science then Historians would be open to new evidence. The Physicist Sir Colin J. Humphries book is: “The Miracles of Exodus - a scientist’s discovery of the extraordinary natural causes of the Biblical stories”. Via several expeditions and related search for geological and scientific sources he published his findings and evidence in the book in 2003. It’s actually a delightful piece of writing as it includes his wry wit. At a certain point he changed tact in his research and found if he stuck to the narrative as written in Torah (what refers to as Bible or Old Testament) each stage has plausible scientific evidence at each stage of the Exodus story. Evidence is not proof. But he and the evidence illuminates definite plausibility.
This is like putting a post out on Christmas Day about the myth ( lie) of Santa and how ridiculous it is but you like it, it’s fun. Or on Easter, writing about the truth that bunnies don’t lay eggs yet you like Easter egg hunts.
I guess we Jews, no matter where we are, celebrate this lie for 3,000 years but it has no foundation. Psh.
Just knowing what happened to European Jews (and other minorities) in and around Germany during WWII, a nightmare that is hard to believe, easily makes the story of the Exodus believable and likely true. People of scientific knowledge have offered plausible ways the miracles could have occurred-- a scientific basis. But, the Exodus is an ancient story passed by generation to generation, so it could have been changed or made more exciting. It is a story revolving around G-d, and He is about miracles. Religion, almost any religion, is about (blind) faith. [I have more faith in the history of Passover than I do in government or medicine.] What makes Passover real is that it has believed by many people spanning many generations. That proof can't be denied.
Next post: The Holocaust didn't happen , but Jews turned it into something better.
Seriously, if one denies the Exodus happening, one is well on the way to giving up any claim that Jews have to the land of Israel. Disappointed that Future of Jewish posted this post.
(This is besides the fact that many historians do think the Exodus happened).
I believe every word. Why not? Non-believers ask for proof it happened. I ask for definitive proof it didn't happen, not speculation or what agnostics or atheists believe. Show me the proof it didn't happen. Do you believe in miracles? We walk everyday amongst miracles, most of us blind and deaf to them.
For those of us who have seen both supernatural evil and true miracles of God in our lives (with objective, observable confirmation), it is very easy to believe the story as recorded. New archeological finds confirm scripture almost every year. I will not be surprised when evidence begins to appear.
The proof that it didn't happen: there is no proof that it happened!
HaHa, works in reverse too: The proof that it happened: there is no proof it didn't happen!
If you are going to make a claim, you need evidence to support it, otherwise it is safe to assume that that claim is false. Evidence it is a myth: Big Bang theory, evolution, etc. I love the story and I do believe that there could be some truth in it, but the magical miracles are just too far-fetched for me to believe in.
Here's some evidence- the existence of foie gras! Dan Barber's viral TED Talk on how Jewish slaves under Pharaoh were forced to find a way to make a seasonal speciality an all year round dish...
And there is evidence of Jewish people in Egypt during the period in question. Plus, we know that certain forms of slavery were unlikely to leave extensive archaeological evidence- with the Roman Empire agricultural, mining and quarry slaves left very little trace- unlike educated, household and artisan class slaves (and sex workers)- who were treated far more humanely.
That being said, the Red Sea is likely a mistranslation and the 600,000 mentioned in written sources, an over-exaggeration.
Then again, recent evidence shows that the numbers quoted in historical accounts of the Persian army numbers at the battle of Thermopylae have also been shown to be a gross exaggeration.
Herodotus is often called the "Father of History", yet we now know the Persian numbers at the battle were no more than 100,000 to 300,000- far lower than the close to 2 million he claimed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvrgD0mAFoU
https://open.substack.com/pub/davidzvi/p/israels-occupiers?r=4bte6l&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false
Appreciate your comments and have a question: which ear, the left or the right?
Left. The one he partially chopped off.
Though there may not be archaeological evidence yet, the proof of the exodus is us, the Jewish people and our continued existence. History as we know it continues to change almost daily due to new technologies. Look what they have discovered under the pyramids, an entire city, places we thought were always frozen have turned out to have been verdant green forests in another age. The same will hold true for us Jews. Just wait. Chag Sameach to all.
Happy Passover for all the Jewish people, wishing the best on this year.
Chag Pesach Samayach!
Blasphemy! I'm a Christian Zionist & I know The Passover did indeed happen b/c G-d said so! G-d does not lie! What a disgraceful article to write on one of the Holiest Days of the year! 👎
Happy blessed Passover to all my Jewish friends. Chag Sameach!
I’m a Christian, too. The Passover is a myth, a story with enormous formative and sustaining power. There have been other myths -none but this one survived the civilizations that formed them. It formed and sustained the Jews; it continues those actions in the Christians too. We Christians believe that God intended this story, to communicate Truth in narrative form. And what God does is never heresy.
I must disagree. I don't believe one can be a believer & think the Exodus is a myth. If it is, then Christ's Resurrection would be too.
Exactly! Every word of God proves true. Proverbs 30:5.
If you doubt any word, how could you trust any!
Not at all. The Exodus myth speaks Truth about the saving power of God, and the human struggle to co-operate with it. That saving power is actually fulfilled in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Don’t underestimate the power of myth -it isn’t just a fairy tale.
Just as at one extreme not every fairy tale is a Myth, so also at the other end not every Myth is historical Truth. Of course the Resurrection happened. It isn’t a Myth. That’s why we follow Him, and the only reason why we no longer follow the Jewish faith.
I wonder if you see the word ‘myth’ and think it means ‘just a fairytale, not true at all’? That isn’t what biblical myths are. They’re ways of telling the Truth. Like the Genesis account of Creation, the Passover myth is not scientific, historical fact, but rich in meaning, a meaning that’s essential for the salvation of the world.
We can't just pick n choose what is or what isn't. Either the entirety of G-d's Word is true, or it isn't
Jesus Christ is the living Word of God. He is the entirety of God’s Word.
Can every single word of the Bible be true? Really? The Bible was written over a very long period of time by different groups of human beings. Those human beings were limited by their own environments and cultures, as are we. They didn’t know the Earth is a globe. They told stories to explain things of which they had no knowledge -and they knew they were stories. They knew the stories were limited. We’re the ones who have often forgotten that. God doesn’t want babies’ heads smashed against walls, or innocent girls chopped up into twelve pieces as a sign. How would that be compatible with a God who is Love itself? But those ancient documents of the Jewish Testament do contain Truth, the Truth we need. We just have to work out which is which.
Of course. But the Bible isn’t G-d’s word. That Word is the Person of Jesus Christ. The Scriptures contain everything we need to have written down for our salvation, but not everything written there is salvific. Sometimes a washing list is just a washing list.
All of it is HIs word, IMO.
Myth is truth, not fact and not a lie. It exists in an order of its own. It tells the truth about a human experience. And plenty of myths have survived the civilizations that envisioned them. Read Ancient Greek literature
I do read it, or did as a child. I agree that myth tells a truth about human experience, but I don’t believe the ancient Greek myths are still a source of spiritual nourishment today.
I don’t disagree. But no-one now living uses the literature of the Ancient Greeks for guidance in their daily lives. I don’t know whether they ever did.
G-d does not lie, you say? And what if G-d doesn't exist?
He exists, whether you believe in Him or not.
Some years ago I was invited by a Jewish friend to join him and his family for Seder. It was a remarkable experience. I was loaned a copy of the Haggadah with parallel Hebrew and English text so that I could follow the ritual. As a Baha'i, whose faith has strong connections to the land of Israel (but much more recent than those of the People of Israel), I was conscious of the privilege of participating in the Seder and Passover Meal.
Through out history people have shared stories through myth, It is a tradition for many aboriginal people live by today. I don't think I ever saw any story shared in the Torah or in the New Testament either as absolute history. The stories in the Torah and i suspect other religious texts were never meant to be a history, they are pointing to truths or ways of seeing and being in the world that support us to be better humans!
Yep. Let my people go.
(And I'm not even Jewish. In fact, the one Seder I was invited to, I thought the food was pretty bad.)
Love the food at seders; charosets (nuts, raisin, honey, some folk add ground up apples and other tasties) on matzoh, yum. Gefilte fish, love it, even better with red beet horseradish. Hard boiled eggs, yum. Then comes the roast turkey or brisket with gravy, maybe lamb, roasted potatoes, flavored string beans, and 4 glasses of wine to wash it all down in a Jewish soul food unsteady haze. Matzoh ball soup! What's not to like?
Not offended. It IS really bad food.:-) The Seder part is meant to have bitter foods and such, but even so, you will be hard-pressed to find a cookbook titled, "The Art of Fine Jewish Cuisine." And though there are some wonderful Jewish recipes, you likely will never find a Michelin-starred restaurant serving "Fine Jewish Cuisine."
Funny. I think classic NY delicatessen food is darned good: corned beef on rye, pastrami. Not much cooking involved in that, of course. Great falafel on the street, but that's not exactly Jewish food.
I've been to Israel and I ate pretty good there. But I can't say it was memorable.
Oh, yeah, the food in Israel is great, but it's mostly Mediterranean-influenced. Not exactly "Jewish" food.
It’s a lot of Sephardic food.
If the story isn’t true, the Torah and NT aren’t true, therefore the whole Jewish nation and history is built on a lie. Which would mean Jews have no particular right to the land that Palestinian Arabs claim. Israel as a Jewish nationality has no more right to exist than any other nation of peoples.
The only reason that Israel, the nation, the people, that even Christianity exists is because of the exodus and the fact/ truth, that the patriarchs existed and God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob promised them that specific little piece of earth to be theirs alone and forever.
There is a difference between myth and fact, and also between myth and a lie. A myth encapsulates a great truth, greater than facts
No. A myth is just that. It’s a story. It has no root or basis. It’s a lie . It’s the same lie as the Palestinians use so the myth of their being the original inhabitants becomes the truth. It is still a lie. The Passover story is not a myth. It is truth, fact, history and recorded as such in tanakh. If it is a myth then the whole of Jewish history is nothing but a pack of cards.
Then what are the promises? The blessings and curses? Of what purpose the commandments and the law? For what reason were the Jews persecuted? Without God there is no reason for the Jewish people to exist. Without the Passover and the exodus there would be no Israel. Jews are people separated out from the nations for a purpose and it is He who has brought them home as He promised He would through the prophets. To deny the Passover and the exodus is to deny the roots and the purpose of Israel, to deny the very existence of God.
exactly. myths are important psychological tools for humans. History , as Jonathan Sacks z"l said so well, is me-story. a powerful memory from our ancestors
There is both historical and archaeological evidence that what the Bible says is absolutely true - not only on the Passover and the history of the Jews, but on everything else as well. God doesn't lie. I would rather take His word for it than the words of fallible scientists and archaeologists, who are continually being forced to change their theories because of new evidence being discovered. By contrast, the Bible has never once been disproved on any issue. For those who would really like to know more, I can recommend Patterns of Evidence. You can Google it. Excellent research and very interesting.
The story of the Exodus is extraordinary indeed, but the story of modern Israel is no less a miracle.
A people exiled for nearly 2,000 years were, against all odds, brought back to their ancient homeland. Despite global protest, war, and overwhelming enemies, they survived—and thrived.
If you struggle to believe in the parting of the Red Sea, consider the modern-day “parting” of political barriers—when powerful nations refused to let the Jewish people go, yet God made a way once again.
The Bible even foresaw this shift:
“‘The days are coming,’ declares the Lord, ‘when people will no longer say, ‘As surely as the Lord lives, who brought the Israelites up out of Egypt,’ but they will say, ‘As surely as the Lord lives, who brought the Israelites up out of the land of the north and out of all the countries where he had banished them.’”
— Jeremiah 16:14–15
If we struggle to believe in the Red Sea miracle, consider the modern exodus—when God made a way through political iron curtains and closed borders. If modern ‘scrolls’ survive into the distant future, generations thousands of years from now may look back and be even more amazed at what God accomplished in our time. And yet, as with the miracles of old, some will still choose not to believe—because the truth sounds too incredible to be real.
If History were a science then Historians would be open to new evidence. The Physicist Sir Colin J. Humphries book is: “The Miracles of Exodus - a scientist’s discovery of the extraordinary natural causes of the Biblical stories”. Via several expeditions and related search for geological and scientific sources he published his findings and evidence in the book in 2003. It’s actually a delightful piece of writing as it includes his wry wit. At a certain point he changed tact in his research and found if he stuck to the narrative as written in Torah (what refers to as Bible or Old Testament) each stage has plausible scientific evidence at each stage of the Exodus story. Evidence is not proof. But he and the evidence illuminates definite plausibility.
This is such a conflicting, passive-aggressive take.
This is like putting a post out on Christmas Day about the myth ( lie) of Santa and how ridiculous it is but you like it, it’s fun. Or on Easter, writing about the truth that bunnies don’t lay eggs yet you like Easter egg hunts.
I guess we Jews, no matter where we are, celebrate this lie for 3,000 years but it has no foundation. Psh.
Just knowing what happened to European Jews (and other minorities) in and around Germany during WWII, a nightmare that is hard to believe, easily makes the story of the Exodus believable and likely true. People of scientific knowledge have offered plausible ways the miracles could have occurred-- a scientific basis. But, the Exodus is an ancient story passed by generation to generation, so it could have been changed or made more exciting. It is a story revolving around G-d, and He is about miracles. Religion, almost any religion, is about (blind) faith. [I have more faith in the history of Passover than I do in government or medicine.] What makes Passover real is that it has believed by many people spanning many generations. That proof can't be denied.
Next post: The Holocaust didn't happen , but Jews turned it into something better.
Seriously, if one denies the Exodus happening, one is well on the way to giving up any claim that Jews have to the land of Israel. Disappointed that Future of Jewish posted this post.
(This is besides the fact that many historians do think the Exodus happened).