They need to be dispersed so that they cannot be controlled by a central totalitarian regime. Generously compensated, families and clans kept together, their children will have a chance at a life worth living, something that will never be achieved in an Arab-controlled Gaza Strip.
I totally agree about a change in the schools, although a joint venture, it seems to me, would have to come years - maybe decades - after a change in early /elementary education. I assumed from what I read that the Saudi Arabian program was in essence a prison. At least initially. I cannot see an Israeli program working on Palestinians. So why not leverage Saudi Arabian's interest in having a relationship with Israel? As far as outside extremist ideology: in my fantasy world this is where the U.S. comes in; all of these attacks from Houthis and Hezbollah cannot be allowed. There has to be strong reaction from the U.S. What is the point of all this military spending if we don't use it when it's necessary? Also, as far as imams, etc., REAL SANCTIONS. We have to get hardcore. These radical islamists are anti-West and they should be stopped in their tracks NOW.
I love this (I've been thinking a lot of the same - lol). Question: why can't Israel and Saudi Arabia achieve normalization whenever they want to? Why do they have to wait for the U.S.? Why don't they just do it? One advantage for Israel would be, it could buy lots of arms from S.A., and stop worrying about America's short-sightedness. No?
Deradicalization may have been successful in some countries that weren't surrounded by radical Islamist states. Iran and their proxies will do everything it can to make sure deradicalization does not take place, e.g. propaganda on social media, assassination, getting support from Russia and China.
Yes, but as I've written here before, minimally Israel should - once it normalizes relations with Saudi Arabia - send all terrorists that it captures to the Saudi de-radicalization program. That way, there would be no point to Hamas taking hostages. Nothing to trade them for.
Any de-radicalization program must happen within Palestinian society. Prisons can be transformed into de-radicalization programs. If there is no change within the Palestinians, then de-radical terrorists would simply change back when they return. The schools and Universities much have curriculum based on a joint venture between Israelis and Palestinians. Imans must stop instigating violence. Jobs must be created. We would need help from Arab countries that want to establish relations. But how do you stop outside violent extremist Islamic ideology?
In Europe, there are at least 3 countries with a more or less successfull process of pacification and integration of different cultures and faiths: Holland, Belgium and Switzerland.
In Holland, Catholics were for centuries considered to be second class citizens - that distinction does no longer exists thanks to a long but peaceful emancipatory struggle.
The Netherlands are a equalitarian and unitarian state nowadays.
In Belgium, the Flemish were the underdog in the unitarian State but at present, as a Confederation, it's working well enough for both, living apart together with a shared capital.
And Switzerland is Switzerland : living peacefully together with 4 languages and 2 religions in a Confederation - perhaps thanks to the fact that the German speaking part of the population is a vast majority and can afford to be generous towards the others.
I get your point. BUT - it's not only a question of cultural differences. They HATE Jews / Israelis. It's a virulent violent hatred. I think maybe a bit different from ethnic differences in Europe.
When I began reading this I thought it was pie in the sky, but I’m more curious now.
“Apologists write about a two-state solution, and about what Israel must do differently”
They also argue that they expect higher moral standards from Israel, but they don’t seem to believe that the Palestinians should have higher moral standards.
Like someone else said, this does seem so obvious. Willful blindness, lack of interest in the truth, fear of being or appearing racist…none of it explains how ignorant and frankly stupid Westerners seem about this.
For now, the idea of a confederation is pie in the sky, as you point out more eloquently, Nachum. I am interested in knowing more about deradicalization of Saudi Arabia, Indonesia and Singapore, but meanwhile, we have far to travel before the Palestinian people get over their obsession with victimhood and get themselves some decent leadership. Your idea about restitution for Jews and Palestinians alike is not likely to fly, alas, but I like the quote from Golda Meir. If only. . .
The only obstacle to peace between Israel and the Palestinians is the Palestinians. Just as there will never be peace between Israel and Egypt, Israel and Jordan, or Israel and Iran. As long as they are teaching the evil rhetoric from the Quran there will never be peace.
It’s been almost a thousand years since the first crusade. It was prompted by Arab invasion of Europe. That invasion is nothing compared to the invasion that began about 10 years ago! More innocent people have been raped, robbed, and murdered by Muslim invaders around the world than the 11th century pope’s ever imagined!
The only fear I have in all this is: since the founding of the Saudi Arabia the Wahabi (Salafist) influence has been foundational and fundamental is the Saudi apparent desire for normalization just a grand taquiha ploy just a question I can’t dismiss.
They need to be dispersed so that they cannot be controlled by a central totalitarian regime. Generously compensated, families and clans kept together, their children will have a chance at a life worth living, something that will never be achieved in an Arab-controlled Gaza Strip.
I totally agree about a change in the schools, although a joint venture, it seems to me, would have to come years - maybe decades - after a change in early /elementary education. I assumed from what I read that the Saudi Arabian program was in essence a prison. At least initially. I cannot see an Israeli program working on Palestinians. So why not leverage Saudi Arabian's interest in having a relationship with Israel? As far as outside extremist ideology: in my fantasy world this is where the U.S. comes in; all of these attacks from Houthis and Hezbollah cannot be allowed. There has to be strong reaction from the U.S. What is the point of all this military spending if we don't use it when it's necessary? Also, as far as imams, etc., REAL SANCTIONS. We have to get hardcore. These radical islamists are anti-West and they should be stopped in their tracks NOW.
I love this (I've been thinking a lot of the same - lol). Question: why can't Israel and Saudi Arabia achieve normalization whenever they want to? Why do they have to wait for the U.S.? Why don't they just do it? One advantage for Israel would be, it could buy lots of arms from S.A., and stop worrying about America's short-sightedness. No?
They are not trustable
Thats why we could never have 2 state solution.
Long time ago i flew on air france and one of the pilots invite me to the cokpit
The lengh of the flight
I was going to an arabic coutry
I never forgot
What he said(he said i will not let my dog spend one night in those coutries)
Many of them were friends with jews and on october 7 they back stub them
Voila i do not say all 100 per cent are bad but mayve 80 per cent.
Deradicalization may have been successful in some countries that weren't surrounded by radical Islamist states. Iran and their proxies will do everything it can to make sure deradicalization does not take place, e.g. propaganda on social media, assassination, getting support from Russia and China.
Yes, but as I've written here before, minimally Israel should - once it normalizes relations with Saudi Arabia - send all terrorists that it captures to the Saudi de-radicalization program. That way, there would be no point to Hamas taking hostages. Nothing to trade them for.
Any de-radicalization program must happen within Palestinian society. Prisons can be transformed into de-radicalization programs. If there is no change within the Palestinians, then de-radical terrorists would simply change back when they return. The schools and Universities much have curriculum based on a joint venture between Israelis and Palestinians. Imans must stop instigating violence. Jobs must be created. We would need help from Arab countries that want to establish relations. But how do you stop outside violent extremist Islamic ideology?
Yes, living peacefully together is possible.
In Europe, there are at least 3 countries with a more or less successfull process of pacification and integration of different cultures and faiths: Holland, Belgium and Switzerland.
In Holland, Catholics were for centuries considered to be second class citizens - that distinction does no longer exists thanks to a long but peaceful emancipatory struggle.
The Netherlands are a equalitarian and unitarian state nowadays.
In Belgium, the Flemish were the underdog in the unitarian State but at present, as a Confederation, it's working well enough for both, living apart together with a shared capital.
And Switzerland is Switzerland : living peacefully together with 4 languages and 2 religions in a Confederation - perhaps thanks to the fact that the German speaking part of the population is a vast majority and can afford to be generous towards the others.
I get your point. BUT - it's not only a question of cultural differences. They HATE Jews / Israelis. It's a virulent violent hatred. I think maybe a bit different from ethnic differences in Europe.
When I began reading this I thought it was pie in the sky, but I’m more curious now.
“Apologists write about a two-state solution, and about what Israel must do differently”
They also argue that they expect higher moral standards from Israel, but they don’t seem to believe that the Palestinians should have higher moral standards.
Like someone else said, this does seem so obvious. Willful blindness, lack of interest in the truth, fear of being or appearing racist…none of it explains how ignorant and frankly stupid Westerners seem about this.
This all seems so obvious.
For now, the idea of a confederation is pie in the sky, as you point out more eloquently, Nachum. I am interested in knowing more about deradicalization of Saudi Arabia, Indonesia and Singapore, but meanwhile, we have far to travel before the Palestinian people get over their obsession with victimhood and get themselves some decent leadership. Your idea about restitution for Jews and Palestinians alike is not likely to fly, alas, but I like the quote from Golda Meir. If only. . .
The only obstacle to peace between Israel and the Palestinians is the Palestinians. Just as there will never be peace between Israel and Egypt, Israel and Jordan, or Israel and Iran. As long as they are teaching the evil rhetoric from the Quran there will never be peace.
It will never be a 2 state solution
From the beginning of the time
They always wanted what jews had
We lived in Arabic coutries they wanted Us gone we did but Then They. Follow us in france america canada and other places.
They want what we have
We will never have piece.
It’s been almost a thousand years since the first crusade. It was prompted by Arab invasion of Europe. That invasion is nothing compared to the invasion that began about 10 years ago! More innocent people have been raped, robbed, and murdered by Muslim invaders around the world than the 11th century pope’s ever imagined!
The only fear I have in all this is: since the founding of the Saudi Arabia the Wahabi (Salafist) influence has been foundational and fundamental is the Saudi apparent desire for normalization just a grand taquiha ploy just a question I can’t dismiss.
You raise a worthwhile point.