If the old two-state solution is dead, but the Palestinians can’t expel the Israelis, Israel can’t expel the Palestinians, and the status quo is untenable, then we need bolder alternatives.
Your reasoning is a tidy Liberal minded argument which will not hold up to the bitter reality of the Region. The Arabs of Gaza and Judea and Samaria want to ERASE Israel. They would Absolutely do so if given a State-entity to re-arm with. Here in London we have monitored The re-formation of The Nazi Party, and they are now in Alliance with Hamas. Legally, countries who have status at the U.N. have the right to armies, whether or not lying Arab politicians renounced this right in the short term. This would ABSOLUTELY be used to continue the Nazi and the Arab war of Genocide against The Jewish People. Thus State entity for the Arabs of Gaza CAN NOW NO LONGER BE. Ever. Sad, but just so. Get used to this as fact.
Exactly. Does this person live in Israel? Does he comprehend there is no logic in ME thinking? Does he comprehend fanaticism that rivals ISIS? Does he comprehend Jordan is an actual enemy and at best a frigid neighbour? Does he comprehend that for the Palestinians it is all or nothing and even at the best of times want all Jews slaughtered? Does he understand the geography of Judea and Samaria which are on hills and can shoot one metre and kill Israelis on the other side of the border? This sounds like the worst of delusional Progressive thinking of someone with the chutzpah to tell Israelis how and when to live and die, but would have a meltdown if Israel told American Jews they must all move to Dearborn so they can make peace with the Muslims.
This is an interesting idea, but Dan is right about the likely ultimate outcome.
The “Palestinians” would never accept your notion of the “right of return,” because that makes zero sense. The land they want to “return” to is Israel, period. And they *were* once there. They left voluntarily, which they refuse to admit, but it actually was there. It’s not land per se that they want, it’s *that specific* land only.
Giving up the entire “West Bank” should never be considered an option by Israel, and likely would not be. It would render the country indefensible.
Jordan, regardless of the actual name, is highly unlikely to grant equal citizenship to the Jewish settlers, and the Palestinians would be even less inclined to do so. They are Muslim countries, and that is just simply not how Islam operates. You need to learn about how the Koran mandates treating anyone who refuses to convert to Islam - “infidels”, aka “kafirs,” - and about taqqiya and tawriya. *
At best* they would be regarded as “dhimmies” (second class citizens), required to pay a very high tax called “jizya,” and be limited in how they would be allowed to practice their religion.
Still, I like the creativity of your thinking, and I agree that a new, outside-the-box solution might be the only viable option.
It's an extremely well written article, historically accurate and with a logical, practical sensible proposal.
Unfortunately, the Arafat / Sinwar / Abbas / Hamas / Hezbollah / Iranian tendency are not interested in historical accuracy and certainly not interested in logical, practical, sensible proposals - if they were, there would have been two States 77 years ago.
All they are interested in is destroying Israel and every Jew between the Jordan & the Med.
And the Israeli government & Knesset knows this.
And the terrorists are not going to change.
Once upon a time there was a terrorist separatist organisation that also demanded a State of their own.
They were called the 'Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam', or more commonly, the 'Tamil Tigers'.
All sorts of peace plans were tried, all sorts of offers - but the terrorists wouldn't accept any compromise and eventually the Sri Lankan government ran out of patience.
Anyone heard from the Tamil Tigers recently?
(Inevitably, the Sri Lankan government was faced with allegations of war crimes and crimes against humanity, but those allegations became fish & chip wrappings sixteen years ago)
I believe the Israeli government has similarly run out of patience; I watched a recent interview with a bereaved father who lost his daughter at the Nova Festival. He said something to the effect that he had been empathetic with the 'Palestinians' in Gaza all his life - but that he was no longer so minded.
It was a very affecting interview.
And I believe I would feel the same.
With President Trump squeezing Iran via sanctions and with the quite incredible actions of the IDF, (clearly the most effective Army & Air Force in the world), I believe we are seeing the beginning of the end of the 'Palestinian' cause.
I don't believe there is such a thing as a negotiated peace - the bad guys don't want it, they would rather become martyrs.
Israel is very tiny, surrounded by huge Muslim states: Create a "Palestine" from one of the Muslim countries. Israel deserves, and NEEDS, all of their land, intact. Not only for security but also because it is JEWISH land. Also, Israel will need the land as the New Middle East takes off and Israel--not America--becomes the protector and enforcer of the New Middle East. Israel will need more military installations, factories to supply weapons, population expansion, and again--security. If Israel isn't secure, ain't no one in the M.E. is going to be secure.
The arabs of gaza and the west bank are the same levant arabs that lived in the Ottoman area for hundreds of years .. the same levant arabs that were part of the British Mandated territory, of which 78% became Jordan .. Jordanian arabs are of the same cloth.
Israel must not give up strategic west bank, nor share Jerusalem as a capital.
Jordan in reality, is the second state of the two state solution.
Jordan is not to be trusted. King Abdullah's recent tirade against Israel at the UN reveals the true nature of the peace with Jordan, which has an anti-normalization committee that blackballs any rapprochement with Israel by any Jordanian professional. A Palestinian overwhelming majority in Jordan would tear the country apart and result in an armed threat against Israel worse than the PA. If any Arab country and especially Saudi Arabia were sincere in wanting peace with Israel it would seek it without attaching it to the Palestinian cause and boldly lead the Arab Muslim world to true peace with no strings attached instead of using the Palestinian cause as a stick with which to beat Israel up and fan the irredentist Palestinian mentality and Jew hatred endemic to the Arab Muslim world. Israel needs to extend sovereignty over Gaza, Judea and Samaria, lock down the "Palestinians" who live there and escort them out eventually. Egypt is a failed state rife with officially sponsored antisemitism, making the peace with Israel cold indeed and perennially dangerous, as exemplified by the Egyptian military build-up in the Sinai violating the peace treaty. Not to mention Turkey stirring things up constantly from afar. Israel can rely only on itself and its historic borders.
Absolutely NOT! History has shown that the writer's thinking is in no way based on reality, or understanding of Arab mentality or frankly anything that has been going on for the past 75 years.
Too much thinking while reading before my coffee but there is no statehood awarded to murderers who still have innocent, civilian hostages. Anyway, HaShem gave a detailed description of Gaza coastline property and it goes to Judah after He rids it of the inhabitants who soiled it. Judaea/Samaria are not negotiable. Cream and sugar?
I’m living through the second instantiation of Balaam’s ass. For what it’s worth given the world sentiment turning against us perhaps we will have to live briefly with such an enemy. They undoubtedly will attack us and then by the grace of Hashem our second chance at Behouhosai will happen our 5 will conquer their thousands. Something we all are going to hate is going to happen. God will provide.
Your reasoning is a tidy Liberal minded argument which will not hold up to the bitter reality of the Region. The Arabs of Gaza and Judea and Samaria want to ERASE Israel. They would Absolutely do so if given a State-entity to re-arm with. Here in London we have monitored The re-formation of The Nazi Party, and they are now in Alliance with Hamas. Legally, countries who have status at the U.N. have the right to armies, whether or not lying Arab politicians renounced this right in the short term. This would ABSOLUTELY be used to continue the Nazi and the Arab war of Genocide against The Jewish People. Thus State entity for the Arabs of Gaza CAN NOW NO LONGER BE. Ever. Sad, but just so. Get used to this as fact.
Exactly. Does this person live in Israel? Does he comprehend there is no logic in ME thinking? Does he comprehend fanaticism that rivals ISIS? Does he comprehend Jordan is an actual enemy and at best a frigid neighbour? Does he comprehend that for the Palestinians it is all or nothing and even at the best of times want all Jews slaughtered? Does he understand the geography of Judea and Samaria which are on hills and can shoot one metre and kill Israelis on the other side of the border? This sounds like the worst of delusional Progressive thinking of someone with the chutzpah to tell Israelis how and when to live and die, but would have a meltdown if Israel told American Jews they must all move to Dearborn so they can make peace with the Muslims.
Amen!
This is an interesting idea, but Dan is right about the likely ultimate outcome.
The “Palestinians” would never accept your notion of the “right of return,” because that makes zero sense. The land they want to “return” to is Israel, period. And they *were* once there. They left voluntarily, which they refuse to admit, but it actually was there. It’s not land per se that they want, it’s *that specific* land only.
Giving up the entire “West Bank” should never be considered an option by Israel, and likely would not be. It would render the country indefensible.
Jordan, regardless of the actual name, is highly unlikely to grant equal citizenship to the Jewish settlers, and the Palestinians would be even less inclined to do so. They are Muslim countries, and that is just simply not how Islam operates. You need to learn about how the Koran mandates treating anyone who refuses to convert to Islam - “infidels”, aka “kafirs,” - and about taqqiya and tawriya. *
At best* they would be regarded as “dhimmies” (second class citizens), required to pay a very high tax called “jizya,” and be limited in how they would be allowed to practice their religion.
Still, I like the creativity of your thinking, and I agree that a new, outside-the-box solution might be the only viable option.
It's an extremely well written article, historically accurate and with a logical, practical sensible proposal.
Unfortunately, the Arafat / Sinwar / Abbas / Hamas / Hezbollah / Iranian tendency are not interested in historical accuracy and certainly not interested in logical, practical, sensible proposals - if they were, there would have been two States 77 years ago.
All they are interested in is destroying Israel and every Jew between the Jordan & the Med.
And the Israeli government & Knesset knows this.
And the terrorists are not going to change.
Once upon a time there was a terrorist separatist organisation that also demanded a State of their own.
They were called the 'Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam', or more commonly, the 'Tamil Tigers'.
All sorts of peace plans were tried, all sorts of offers - but the terrorists wouldn't accept any compromise and eventually the Sri Lankan government ran out of patience.
Anyone heard from the Tamil Tigers recently?
(Inevitably, the Sri Lankan government was faced with allegations of war crimes and crimes against humanity, but those allegations became fish & chip wrappings sixteen years ago)
I believe the Israeli government has similarly run out of patience; I watched a recent interview with a bereaved father who lost his daughter at the Nova Festival. He said something to the effect that he had been empathetic with the 'Palestinians' in Gaza all his life - but that he was no longer so minded.
It was a very affecting interview.
And I believe I would feel the same.
With President Trump squeezing Iran via sanctions and with the quite incredible actions of the IDF, (clearly the most effective Army & Air Force in the world), I believe we are seeing the beginning of the end of the 'Palestinian' cause.
I don't believe there is such a thing as a negotiated peace - the bad guys don't want it, they would rather become martyrs.
I have no problem with that.
Hamas Delenda Est
Precisely ..
Israel is very tiny, surrounded by huge Muslim states: Create a "Palestine" from one of the Muslim countries. Israel deserves, and NEEDS, all of their land, intact. Not only for security but also because it is JEWISH land. Also, Israel will need the land as the New Middle East takes off and Israel--not America--becomes the protector and enforcer of the New Middle East. Israel will need more military installations, factories to supply weapons, population expansion, and again--security. If Israel isn't secure, ain't no one in the M.E. is going to be secure.
The arabs of gaza and the west bank are the same levant arabs that lived in the Ottoman area for hundreds of years .. the same levant arabs that were part of the British Mandated territory, of which 78% became Jordan .. Jordanian arabs are of the same cloth.
Israel must not give up strategic west bank, nor share Jerusalem as a capital.
Jordan in reality, is the second state of the two state solution.
Any notion of a two state solution is dead and buried .. that ship sailed years ago.
yes, but there are STILL some folks pushing the idea.
Jordan is not to be trusted. King Abdullah's recent tirade against Israel at the UN reveals the true nature of the peace with Jordan, which has an anti-normalization committee that blackballs any rapprochement with Israel by any Jordanian professional. A Palestinian overwhelming majority in Jordan would tear the country apart and result in an armed threat against Israel worse than the PA. If any Arab country and especially Saudi Arabia were sincere in wanting peace with Israel it would seek it without attaching it to the Palestinian cause and boldly lead the Arab Muslim world to true peace with no strings attached instead of using the Palestinian cause as a stick with which to beat Israel up and fan the irredentist Palestinian mentality and Jew hatred endemic to the Arab Muslim world. Israel needs to extend sovereignty over Gaza, Judea and Samaria, lock down the "Palestinians" who live there and escort them out eventually. Egypt is a failed state rife with officially sponsored antisemitism, making the peace with Israel cold indeed and perennially dangerous, as exemplified by the Egyptian military build-up in the Sinai violating the peace treaty. Not to mention Turkey stirring things up constantly from afar. Israel can rely only on itself and its historic borders.
Absolutely NOT! History has shown that the writer's thinking is in no way based on reality, or understanding of Arab mentality or frankly anything that has been going on for the past 75 years.
Too much thinking while reading before my coffee but there is no statehood awarded to murderers who still have innocent, civilian hostages. Anyway, HaShem gave a detailed description of Gaza coastline property and it goes to Judah after He rids it of the inhabitants who soiled it. Judaea/Samaria are not negotiable. Cream and sugar?
This essay should have begun with, "Once upon a time. . ." It's too early in the morning for me for fairy tales.
I’m living through the second instantiation of Balaam’s ass. For what it’s worth given the world sentiment turning against us perhaps we will have to live briefly with such an enemy. They undoubtedly will attack us and then by the grace of Hashem our second chance at Behouhosai will happen our 5 will conquer their thousands. Something we all are going to hate is going to happen. God will provide.