The Palestinians have defined themselves ...... they are a culture whose main purpose is to destroy the state of Israel and to wipe out all the Jews. They overwhelmingly have supported Hamas and supported the atrocity of Oct 7th. This is not a close call, a 50-50 split - this is an overwhelming majority in the range of 70-80% or even more. They are not just signalling their purpose, they are shouting it out and leaving not a shred of doubt.
You want to change the goal, you want to change them to a culture of peace .... There is only one way to do it and that is to change what they are being taught in the schools and in the mosques. Nothing else will do it, Nothing.
You are so right Sheri, every Israeli and every Jew in the Diaspora should accept them as a people and get past arguing the history. Just a complete waste of time. Yet at the same time, All of us should finally accept the fact that it is a culture of hate and destruction. Stop pretending otherwise until they are taught otherwise. I really have no tolerance for Left Wing Jews ...... How much freakin proof do they need? Let them go to Gaza and preach and see how long they last.
So whats the solution? the solution is to eradicate Hamas and change the PA leadership and hand it over to the few Palestinians that have shown they want peace and get rid of UNWRA and teach them true history and hopefully in 20 years or less we can talk about a 2 state solution.
I have long ago accepted that theirs is a culture of hate and destruction. If you think I feel otherwise, if you think I am a Left Wing Israeli, then I must not be a very good writer.
BTW -- I don't think we can talk about a 2SS in 20 years or 50 years or even 100 years, or ever. As I wrote, peoples arise and peoples disappear. I believe the fate of those who now call themselves Palestinians is to disappear as a "people" and become reabsorbed into Arab countries, those who are not terrorists, that is.
No Sheri, I did not think for a second that you are a Left Wing Israeli. If I gave you that impression, its only proof that I am the very poor writer😀. (this was the first time I used an emoji - could not figure out how until now)
As far as them disappearing, I respectfully disagree. The world for whatevedr reason will not let them disappear. Either way, I will never find out cuz I will be dead by that time.
Guess thats it. Thanks so much for a wonderful article and for fighting the good fight.
Commendable as it is that you accept the Palestinians, (and that you are still free to say so) that is kind of irrelevant in the bigger picture. The hatred, abuse and violence comes from the Palestinians. That is their choice. They never liked or accepted any peace offerings by Israelis and/ or Others alike because they are steadfast on the annihilation of Israel. Israel believes their rhetoric which is supported by their actions. A lesson we should all learn about politicians: It’s Not What They Say, It Is What They Do. Watch them in Silent-Mode.
Let me clarify -- I did not write that I "accept the Palestinians." I write that I accept the fact that they call themselves that and consider themselves a people for at least a few decades. I assume you read the article and so you know that I expect them to behave like adults and stop behaving like victims.
I don't care what they call themselves because we are going to fight them because of their behaviours and not because of the name they give themselves. I think we are showing what we can do against Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in Lebanon. The turn to do the same to Hamas and the PLO in Judea-Samaria will come if they do not change their terrorist ways (which I do not expect them to do).
My main point is that all this arguing over what they call themselves is a waste of energy and goes nowhere. So I got off that merry-go-round. Does that make sense?
Are Jews defining themselves? I wonder. In America...Canada...etc...we are a religious minority. Otherrwise how many are calling themselves Hungarians, Poles, and so on even if in those countries we are JEWS.
The British and French rightfully set up the boundaries of a new entity based on their knowledge of Jewish history in the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament. Palestine was long used in Europe as the land of Jesus and his ministry. Ottoman Empire purposely ignored the name and didn't use it on their maps as they divided things up into sanjaks and other Ottoman political entities. They didn't want Europe to claim a place called Palestine.
Lebanon is a mountain, Jordan is a river....Iraq is some medieval distinction ....Palestine is Christian usage. See Bernard Lewis.
If you don't or anyone doesn't think the Palestinians are a distinct people see the many many cookbooks ....all beautiful coffee table editions of the unique and distinctive Filasteen cuisine. See their embroidery ...each village has its own design. They make soap They have a brand of beer. Their Arabic has its own distinctive flavor. All this have I learned from looking on line or thumbing through books that tell me that Palestinians are an ancient nation who go back to the beginning of time like Egypt or China. So I can walk through the many halls of Palestine at the Metropolitan Museum. Or visit the vast collection in Ramallah.
Israel Museum?
But we poor Jews....we have nothing distinctive. Gefilte fish and black clothes. ? We are Hungarians and Poles and Greeks and Ethiopians....and Germans. We provided nothing in history to match the magnificence of Palestine and their first great prophet and martyr ....Isa. Killed by the first century Zionists. Learn well Jews. This is why Ireland, Slovenia and Spain so insistent that the State of Palestine without population or boundaries defined be recognized NOW. And hundred plus nations recognize it too.
I had to check your profile to make sure I correctly understood that this is tongue-in-cheek. Yes, we poor Jews -- nothing distinctive. While the Palestinians? ........
I'm glad you cleared that one up, Sheri! I'm afraid it went right over my head and I wondered whether he was some lost Irish soul or other who'd somehow landed on this thread/site by mistake. lol
As always, a most interesting read, Sheri. I generally think of, and refer to the Arab Palestinians either as the Invented People, circa 1964, 1967 or post Oslo, take your pick; otherwise they are the desert-dwelling, sea-faring people from the Aegean Islands and the Arabian Peninsular! (lol) I do understand and accept your premise but with one reservation: Even a history reckoned from as recently as 1994 carries a lot of baggage/weight and the UN and even the USA have invested $billions into the notion of Land for Peace, two-states for two peoples, etc and the term "Palestinians" perpetuates that myth and will likely continue to perpetuate all those delusions because they're hardwired into the minds of many. For instance, how long did it take after October 7th for the Biden administration to again start calling for a two-state solution that would "give the Palestinian people the self-determination they deserve"? A week? Probably less.
I agree it's pointless arguing over speculation that the Philist'im (Invaders) were originally Canaanites or Whateverites lost to the pages of history, and your point that many so-called Palestinians might originally have been Jews forced to convert to Islam following the seventh century conquest is quite ironic, given their present hostility to Israel and all things Jewish. I agree, at an intellectual level, it doesn't matter what they call themselves, or, for that matter, what we call them. BUT, the words Palestine and Palestinian are household brand names and are likely to remain so for the forseeable future.
Nevertheless, I agree that the writing is on the wall for them and that they either change or disappear from the pages of history, just like their mythical forebears have done aeons ago.
exactly. you get it. You get what I was getting at. And you make the important distinction between what they are how they regard themselves versus how those who support them regard them. That might be the basis for a new article. Thanks.
One cannot help but note that the Arabs as a group don’t have accomplished much (true they invented algebra, but nothing recently. Nor do they seem to be following places like Singapore and South Korea.)
So much, hyper-complexified, tortured bull shit in this article: that only ends up surrendering to a great lie, and no lie can ever be surrendered to without self degradation and deviation from our
greatest strength, which is the unwavering embrace of and allegiance to truth from reality. There are no palestinian people-just as there never was a palestine. Both are enemy weapons remaining to be smashed-never capitulated to, as does this article on any rationalized grounds of it being
an ultimately meaningless technicality-it is nothing of the kind. It is a foundational fiction and lie
I surrender nothing. But I can understand how you see it that way. I just don't want to continue this yes-they-are/no-they-are-not cycle that goes nowhere and focus on what is really important -- fighting terrorism and fighting for our lives. If you consider it worthy to continue this going-nowhere debate, you are welcome to it.
Debate I will continue, however, are that about apartheid, illegal occupation, settler-colonialism.
It is more than the Palestinians who are responsible for their behavior. We can start with UNRWA who has given them their "victim" status ad infinitum. It is the UN that has a seat for them labeled, "State of Palestine." It is the world organizations, Hamas, the Western countries, the news media, etc. who reinforce their behaviors. We are speaking of a people who are most definitely Arabs who have been indoctrinated and enabled by all those and more that I mentioned. I enjoyed reading your article, but for me personally, I will not give them a get out of jail free card, nor will I be so generous to think they will one day make the choice of changing who they are.
The people are innocent, the movement has been created ironically by the colonisers, the British. Arabs never had nationhood, it’s a 21st century addition, coming from, you guessed it, the left
Israel is only the Little Satan that the Palestinians are pledged to eradicate. The US, and the West in general, is the Big Satan. What would the Palestinians do if Israel were actually destroyed? Elementary — they would #GlobalizeTheIntifada and try to destroy the West, or else convert it to Islam (and probably eradicate all traces of Western culture).
By the way, martyrdom may be the highest goal of the Palestinian people, but I observe it doesn't seem to be a personal goal of its leaders.
There is that recent poll by the Times of Israel that found that a large percentage of Israeli Arabs actually want to live in peace with Israel. If anyone can turn around the hatred of the people in the tryout Palestinian state of Gaza and the West Bank, it would be them. Every Palestinian has a choice, every day, about what will happen to their people and to their children. We shall see how they choose.
The Palestinians have defined themselves ...... they are a culture whose main purpose is to destroy the state of Israel and to wipe out all the Jews. They overwhelmingly have supported Hamas and supported the atrocity of Oct 7th. This is not a close call, a 50-50 split - this is an overwhelming majority in the range of 70-80% or even more. They are not just signalling their purpose, they are shouting it out and leaving not a shred of doubt.
You want to change the goal, you want to change them to a culture of peace .... There is only one way to do it and that is to change what they are being taught in the schools and in the mosques. Nothing else will do it, Nothing.
You are so right Sheri, every Israeli and every Jew in the Diaspora should accept them as a people and get past arguing the history. Just a complete waste of time. Yet at the same time, All of us should finally accept the fact that it is a culture of hate and destruction. Stop pretending otherwise until they are taught otherwise. I really have no tolerance for Left Wing Jews ...... How much freakin proof do they need? Let them go to Gaza and preach and see how long they last.
So whats the solution? the solution is to eradicate Hamas and change the PA leadership and hand it over to the few Palestinians that have shown they want peace and get rid of UNWRA and teach them true history and hopefully in 20 years or less we can talk about a 2 state solution.
papa j
I have long ago accepted that theirs is a culture of hate and destruction. If you think I feel otherwise, if you think I am a Left Wing Israeli, then I must not be a very good writer.
BTW -- I don't think we can talk about a 2SS in 20 years or 50 years or even 100 years, or ever. As I wrote, peoples arise and peoples disappear. I believe the fate of those who now call themselves Palestinians is to disappear as a "people" and become reabsorbed into Arab countries, those who are not terrorists, that is.
No Sheri, I did not think for a second that you are a Left Wing Israeli. If I gave you that impression, its only proof that I am the very poor writer😀. (this was the first time I used an emoji - could not figure out how until now)
As far as them disappearing, I respectfully disagree. The world for whatevedr reason will not let them disappear. Either way, I will never find out cuz I will be dead by that time.
Guess thats it. Thanks so much for a wonderful article and for fighting the good fight.
ahimsa papa j
Excellent article. The humiliating name of Palestinians is very insightful. A name is so very meaningful.
Commendable as it is that you accept the Palestinians, (and that you are still free to say so) that is kind of irrelevant in the bigger picture. The hatred, abuse and violence comes from the Palestinians. That is their choice. They never liked or accepted any peace offerings by Israelis and/ or Others alike because they are steadfast on the annihilation of Israel. Israel believes their rhetoric which is supported by their actions. A lesson we should all learn about politicians: It’s Not What They Say, It Is What They Do. Watch them in Silent-Mode.
Let me clarify -- I did not write that I "accept the Palestinians." I write that I accept the fact that they call themselves that and consider themselves a people for at least a few decades. I assume you read the article and so you know that I expect them to behave like adults and stop behaving like victims.
I don't care what they call themselves because we are going to fight them because of their behaviours and not because of the name they give themselves. I think we are showing what we can do against Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in Lebanon. The turn to do the same to Hamas and the PLO in Judea-Samaria will come if they do not change their terrorist ways (which I do not expect them to do).
My main point is that all this arguing over what they call themselves is a waste of energy and goes nowhere. So I got off that merry-go-round. Does that make sense?
Are Jews defining themselves? I wonder. In America...Canada...etc...we are a religious minority. Otherrwise how many are calling themselves Hungarians, Poles, and so on even if in those countries we are JEWS.
The British and French rightfully set up the boundaries of a new entity based on their knowledge of Jewish history in the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament. Palestine was long used in Europe as the land of Jesus and his ministry. Ottoman Empire purposely ignored the name and didn't use it on their maps as they divided things up into sanjaks and other Ottoman political entities. They didn't want Europe to claim a place called Palestine.
Lebanon is a mountain, Jordan is a river....Iraq is some medieval distinction ....Palestine is Christian usage. See Bernard Lewis.
If you don't or anyone doesn't think the Palestinians are a distinct people see the many many cookbooks ....all beautiful coffee table editions of the unique and distinctive Filasteen cuisine. See their embroidery ...each village has its own design. They make soap They have a brand of beer. Their Arabic has its own distinctive flavor. All this have I learned from looking on line or thumbing through books that tell me that Palestinians are an ancient nation who go back to the beginning of time like Egypt or China. So I can walk through the many halls of Palestine at the Metropolitan Museum. Or visit the vast collection in Ramallah.
Israel Museum?
But we poor Jews....we have nothing distinctive. Gefilte fish and black clothes. ? We are Hungarians and Poles and Greeks and Ethiopians....and Germans. We provided nothing in history to match the magnificence of Palestine and their first great prophet and martyr ....Isa. Killed by the first century Zionists. Learn well Jews. This is why Ireland, Slovenia and Spain so insistent that the State of Palestine without population or boundaries defined be recognized NOW. And hundred plus nations recognize it too.
I had to check your profile to make sure I correctly understood that this is tongue-in-cheek. Yes, we poor Jews -- nothing distinctive. While the Palestinians? ........
I'm glad you cleared that one up, Sheri! I'm afraid it went right over my head and I wondered whether he was some lost Irish soul or other who'd somehow landed on this thread/site by mistake. lol
As always, a most interesting read, Sheri. I generally think of, and refer to the Arab Palestinians either as the Invented People, circa 1964, 1967 or post Oslo, take your pick; otherwise they are the desert-dwelling, sea-faring people from the Aegean Islands and the Arabian Peninsular! (lol) I do understand and accept your premise but with one reservation: Even a history reckoned from as recently as 1994 carries a lot of baggage/weight and the UN and even the USA have invested $billions into the notion of Land for Peace, two-states for two peoples, etc and the term "Palestinians" perpetuates that myth and will likely continue to perpetuate all those delusions because they're hardwired into the minds of many. For instance, how long did it take after October 7th for the Biden administration to again start calling for a two-state solution that would "give the Palestinian people the self-determination they deserve"? A week? Probably less.
I agree it's pointless arguing over speculation that the Philist'im (Invaders) were originally Canaanites or Whateverites lost to the pages of history, and your point that many so-called Palestinians might originally have been Jews forced to convert to Islam following the seventh century conquest is quite ironic, given their present hostility to Israel and all things Jewish. I agree, at an intellectual level, it doesn't matter what they call themselves, or, for that matter, what we call them. BUT, the words Palestine and Palestinian are household brand names and are likely to remain so for the forseeable future.
Nevertheless, I agree that the writing is on the wall for them and that they either change or disappear from the pages of history, just like their mythical forebears have done aeons ago.
exactly. you get it. You get what I was getting at. And you make the important distinction between what they are how they regard themselves versus how those who support them regard them. That might be the basis for a new article. Thanks.
One cannot help but note that the Arabs as a group don’t have accomplished much (true they invented algebra, but nothing recently. Nor do they seem to be following places like Singapore and South Korea.)
Is it their culture or what?
So much, hyper-complexified, tortured bull shit in this article: that only ends up surrendering to a great lie, and no lie can ever be surrendered to without self degradation and deviation from our
greatest strength, which is the unwavering embrace of and allegiance to truth from reality. There are no palestinian people-just as there never was a palestine. Both are enemy weapons remaining to be smashed-never capitulated to, as does this article on any rationalized grounds of it being
an ultimately meaningless technicality-it is nothing of the kind. It is a foundational fiction and lie
rendering power to itself.
I surrender nothing. But I can understand how you see it that way. I just don't want to continue this yes-they-are/no-they-are-not cycle that goes nowhere and focus on what is really important -- fighting terrorism and fighting for our lives. If you consider it worthy to continue this going-nowhere debate, you are welcome to it.
Debate I will continue, however, are that about apartheid, illegal occupation, settler-colonialism.
It is more than the Palestinians who are responsible for their behavior. We can start with UNRWA who has given them their "victim" status ad infinitum. It is the UN that has a seat for them labeled, "State of Palestine." It is the world organizations, Hamas, the Western countries, the news media, etc. who reinforce their behaviors. We are speaking of a people who are most definitely Arabs who have been indoctrinated and enabled by all those and more that I mentioned. I enjoyed reading your article, but for me personally, I will not give them a get out of jail free card, nor will I be so generous to think they will one day make the choice of changing who they are.
Also there is no P in the Arabic language.
The people are innocent, the movement has been created ironically by the colonisers, the British. Arabs never had nationhood, it’s a 21st century addition, coming from, you guessed it, the left
Israel is only the Little Satan that the Palestinians are pledged to eradicate. The US, and the West in general, is the Big Satan. What would the Palestinians do if Israel were actually destroyed? Elementary — they would #GlobalizeTheIntifada and try to destroy the West, or else convert it to Islam (and probably eradicate all traces of Western culture).
By the way, martyrdom may be the highest goal of the Palestinian people, but I observe it doesn't seem to be a personal goal of its leaders.
There is that recent poll by the Times of Israel that found that a large percentage of Israeli Arabs actually want to live in peace with Israel. If anyone can turn around the hatred of the people in the tryout Palestinian state of Gaza and the West Bank, it would be them. Every Palestinian has a choice, every day, about what will happen to their people and to their children. We shall see how they choose.
There certainly is. In fact, you have about eight months to come up with an appropriate gift for the Palestinian Arab People’s 58th anniversary.