Why is world opinion even a legitimate concern anymore. The lines have been drawn. We know who the friends of isreal are, the others be damed. Who cares what the jew haters say at this point. The liberal jews of America have confused humanity with self loathing Their opinions no longer hold any sway with zionists.
Exactly, 100%. Other people's opinions should never be the reason for our choices (Anyway, no matter what Israel / Jews do, some will hate us. So why bother trying so hard?)
Very well thought-out from many angles. Some bottom lines: 1. There will never be a better time other than right now to remake the Middle East and bring peace, prosperity and coexistence and that will require bold decisions. It would be immoral to miss this opportunity, and 2. Israel must have security and that will involve keeping Judea and Samaria and probably Gaza, and 3. Hamas must be eliminate and another terror state or region can never be tolerated in the Middle East again. All the moderate Arab states (as well as the people of Iran and the UAE) who want the vision of "the dream" as first outlined by Netanyahu understand these things. So what to do about the Arabs living in Gaza? Probably the best thing is to offer voluntary relocation, and for those who want to stay in Gaza and tough it out, they must sign agreements to coexist peacefully with Israel, recognize Israel's right to exist, and renounce Hamas and all violence and renounce teaching hate and destruction in schools and mosques. Those that refuse to agree to those terms must be forcefully removed (and the moral issue is thus resolved by proving that those people have vowed to continue the war on Jews and Israel and thus cannot possibly stay). Those that stay and sign the pledge but violate it by forming new terror cells--prison or expulsion (also then justified).
Yeah, maybe it is. But something must be done to prevent the population from continuing the status quo of terror. At the very least, announcing that they will at least try this "idea" could force the issue by revealing how many Gazans would rather choose to continue death and terror than agree to peace and coexistence and why a two-state solution would only lead to another terror state. You know what I mean?
Dana, your heart is in the right place and this is a very difficult situation which I'm not sure would be satisfied by ANYTHING Israel or the U.S. would advise.
You write convincingly about conundrums piled on top of conundrums. Thank you for holding the issue of Jewish unity up to the light. Most of us already experience serious divisions in our families and friendships — one more reason for sadness in a world gone mad. This Jew finds herself almost entirely on the same page as Stephen Schecter in his comment to this post. Some things are not negotiable, and the rose-colored glasses are off. Eventual, enduring peace feels, and probably is, unattainable. We sure could use a Solomon right about now to envision the best road ahead.
One idea that avoids the problem of other countries not wanting to accept an influx of terror-loving Gazans: Israel permanently seizes a swath of Gaza which borders Israel. No Gazans are allowed to remain there. It's not necessarily ethnic cleansing, since displaced Gazans relocate only a few miles away, within what remains of Gaza. But it gives Israel a buffer while teaching Gazans that every war they start will cost them more land. In fact, Israel should announce that an equal amount of Gaza will be seized, if Gaza repeats (or tries to repeat) 10/7.
I believe that, until relatively recently, international law allowed for a country fighting a defensive war to take land belonging to the aggressor; however, as soon as Israel used this law to its advantage, it was, no surprise, conveniently changed to disallow any gains.
Exactly, but as well know, different standards apply to Israel/Jews. Google: "Uti Possidetis Juris" and you'll understand how Israel is entitled, by long-standing international law, to the entirety of Mandatory Palestine. Period. Yet ...
As I understand it, defensive conquest is controversial under international law, but most authorities hold it to be legal. The UN Charter says that no state shall use force to compromise the territorial integrity or political independence of any other state, but since no independent Palestinian state has ever existed west of the Jordan River, that isn't a problem in Judea and Samaria or Gaza. The main problem is the question of annexation vs occupation.
I find it strange that after such a cogent beginning the author falls into the usual trap of moral handwringing with respect to what is feasible, including worrying about Jewish unity. The fact is there can be no Palestinian state west of the Jordan; Israel must annex Gaza, Judea and Samaria and flood it with Jews. Gaza must be conquered, the PA dismantled, using all military weapons available and minimizing Jewish casualties. Siege warfare and pinpoint military force are obvious weapons. The Palestinians who remain in Gaza, Judea and Samaria after the resistance is wiped out must be put under strict military-civilian control. No votes. No mosques, which will all be closed as they are incendiary hotbeds of Jew hatred and the murder that ensues from them. No international aid. The Palestinians who remain will have to earn their keep. Any who want to leave will be free to do so. This regime will go on for decades until some sign of Palestinian accommodation to peaceful existence with the Jewish state starts to surface. Eventually those Palestinians who adopt such a position can run municipal services. And oh yes, all education to be done in Hebrew. Now what's so hard about that? I bet the Palestinians will move eventually and if not, they will be quiet, because any disturbance of pubic order would lead to severe consequences. Very sever consequences.
This post was originally posted on my personal Substack. After posting it, the handwringing you correctly identify was pointed out to me and I wrote a follow-up where I agreed I had been afraid to follow through to the obvious conclusions of my argument, why I had done so and why I was wrong to have done so. The post is here https://danielgsaunders.substack.com/p/called-out
More important than the language of education is the content. Let them have their Arabic - but with Israel controlling the content. Any sign of a resurgence of the murderous existing “education” system should be severely punished.
All civilizations that are based on Western Enlightenment values face the same potential difficulty: compassion versus justice. Here's the thing: we MUST be able to flip a switch when required to "warrior" mode. Do what needs to be done. Then, after peace and stability is restored, we flip the switch back to peace mode. That is our challenge.
Yes. This is true in The West (where the Fight to maintain Living Standards is the permanent job of The Services here in The West too). The Middle East is permanently at War and has been for Many millennia. Israel has the job of policing this 'Forever War'. This is her vital job and she does this magnificently. Am Chai.
I agree, but voluntary relocation is a rational act that people who would rather martyr themselves are unlikely to choose, and it may be a chunk that is too big even for Trump to bite off and chew.
Except the idiots in the UK who let them in on the grounds of "family reunification" but it is unlikely that Keir Starmer and his lawyer chums will be living next door to them.
A mass voluntary relocations, as you clearly explain, is nearly impossible. What about the more practical and still devastating blow of Israel annexing northern Gaza? And what about the possibility, after Hamas has been defeated, of autonomy deals with clans?
Hamas is in Alliance with the Re-formed Nazi Party and has been since 2014 when we monitored them in London in extensive Hate Speech as they met in that year to do so. This monitoring was verified and handed to the Authorities and each of the affected groups here in London. They were monitored adopting Genocidal Rhetoric against both Israel and more generally against The Jewish People. Ten years later and it has come to pass.
The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem stayed as the guest of The Nazi Party in Berlin for the entirety of World War Two. He is photographed shaking hands with Heinrich Himmler, leader of The SS who executed both The Holocaust and the murder of Ethnic Russians in the East 'for Lebensraum in The East for The Ethnic Germans' (Hitler's words). This Alliance was monitored here in London by a group of us, as The Nazi Party re-formed and met to do so in London in 2013.
He was not only the guest of the Third Reich, but he spent the war broadcasting Nazi propaganda to the Arabs.
He was also the person who suggested gassing the Jews to Hitler as a more “efficient” and quicker way of doing away with us. I don’t recall what Hitler had been planning, but even he and his henchmen hadn’t even conceived of anything so heinous and evil.
The SS was experimenting with Carbon Monoxide Gas Trucks at the beginning of the War. So The SS had been planning the use of Gas. But, yes, The Grand Mufti was complicit in the Holocaust. The Use of Gas, which is heavier than air, was monitored under discussion again in 2014 when The Re-Formed Nazi Party met from 2013 here in London. All of this, and our reports, are with the Authorities here.
With sufficient emolument, many people can be persuaded to do something they initially reject. We cannot help but notice that the Palestinians have revealed themselves to be unprincipled. Diplomacy requires that they sustain an aura of possessing honor and agency, while with the left hand they receive lucrative payoffs. $5,000–$10,000 per person plus a new citizenship should do the trick, and the resettling be accomplished under Arab auspices (also with emoluments.) There is room for creativity.
As the writer notes, there are enough obstacles to pragmatic solutions to not include a divided global Jewish people into the mix. But a fear of a schism cannot be permitted to be yet another obstacle to doing the only thing that has never been tried: moving Arabs out of Gaza, Judea and Samaria.
There is no guarantee that we, as a people, will persist into the future. We can choose to do what is right, just, and necessary even for the violent Arabs on Jewish land—and give them opportunities elsewhere. Or we can cave to the world’s double-standards and permit the Arabs and their Jew hating friends to try to destroy Israel again, and again, and again—no matter what rhetorical nonsense is popularized to the contrary.
The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem stayed as the guest of The Nazi Party in Berlin for the entirety of World War Two. He is photographed shaking hands with Heinrich Himmler, leader of The SS who executed both The Holocaust and the murder of Ethnic Russians in the East 'for Lebensraum in The East for The Ethnic Germans' (Hitler's words). This Alliance was monitored here in London by a group of us, as The Nazi Party re-formed and met to do so in London in 2013.
The long term solution to the Arabs of the West Bank and Gaza is that after their total defeat, the Arab world opens their arms to them as brother Arabs and throws on the garbage heap of history the invention of an Arab Palestine.
Maybe the best (and safest) possibilities would be:
Either:
The removal of entire the Gazan population to an uninhabited group of outhouse-Pacific islands, without any means (let alone any “right”) of return, with compensation conditional upon agreement to permanent, peaceful existence,
Or:
The removal of the same, entire Gazan population to some uninhabited area of desert (e.g. Sahara, Arabian, Siberian or Antarctic), with the same conditional offer of compensation and without any means (let alone any “right”) of return;
Or, if other of these options are refused, the resumption of war by Israel until the “P*****inian” population agrees to one of the above options - or face annihilation!
Why is world opinion even a legitimate concern anymore. The lines have been drawn. We know who the friends of isreal are, the others be damed. Who cares what the jew haters say at this point. The liberal jews of America have confused humanity with self loathing Their opinions no longer hold any sway with zionists.
Exactly, 100%. Other people's opinions should never be the reason for our choices (Anyway, no matter what Israel / Jews do, some will hate us. So why bother trying so hard?)
Very well thought-out from many angles. Some bottom lines: 1. There will never be a better time other than right now to remake the Middle East and bring peace, prosperity and coexistence and that will require bold decisions. It would be immoral to miss this opportunity, and 2. Israel must have security and that will involve keeping Judea and Samaria and probably Gaza, and 3. Hamas must be eliminate and another terror state or region can never be tolerated in the Middle East again. All the moderate Arab states (as well as the people of Iran and the UAE) who want the vision of "the dream" as first outlined by Netanyahu understand these things. So what to do about the Arabs living in Gaza? Probably the best thing is to offer voluntary relocation, and for those who want to stay in Gaza and tough it out, they must sign agreements to coexist peacefully with Israel, recognize Israel's right to exist, and renounce Hamas and all violence and renounce teaching hate and destruction in schools and mosques. Those that refuse to agree to those terms must be forcefully removed (and the moral issue is thus resolved by proving that those people have vowed to continue the war on Jews and Israel and thus cannot possibly stay). Those that stay and sign the pledge but violate it by forming new terror cells--prison or expulsion (also then justified).
Dana, your comment is pure idealism.
Yeah, maybe it is. But something must be done to prevent the population from continuing the status quo of terror. At the very least, announcing that they will at least try this "idea" could force the issue by revealing how many Gazans would rather choose to continue death and terror than agree to peace and coexistence and why a two-state solution would only lead to another terror state. You know what I mean?
Dana, your heart is in the right place and this is a very difficult situation which I'm not sure would be satisfied by ANYTHING Israel or the U.S. would advise.
You write convincingly about conundrums piled on top of conundrums. Thank you for holding the issue of Jewish unity up to the light. Most of us already experience serious divisions in our families and friendships — one more reason for sadness in a world gone mad. This Jew finds herself almost entirely on the same page as Stephen Schecter in his comment to this post. Some things are not negotiable, and the rose-colored glasses are off. Eventual, enduring peace feels, and probably is, unattainable. We sure could use a Solomon right about now to envision the best road ahead.
One idea that avoids the problem of other countries not wanting to accept an influx of terror-loving Gazans: Israel permanently seizes a swath of Gaza which borders Israel. No Gazans are allowed to remain there. It's not necessarily ethnic cleansing, since displaced Gazans relocate only a few miles away, within what remains of Gaza. But it gives Israel a buffer while teaching Gazans that every war they start will cost them more land. In fact, Israel should announce that an equal amount of Gaza will be seized, if Gaza repeats (or tries to repeat) 10/7.
I believe that, until relatively recently, international law allowed for a country fighting a defensive war to take land belonging to the aggressor; however, as soon as Israel used this law to its advantage, it was, no surprise, conveniently changed to disallow any gains.
And yet countries seize each other's territory, constantly. Gaza's not even a country.
Exactly, but as well know, different standards apply to Israel/Jews. Google: "Uti Possidetis Juris" and you'll understand how Israel is entitled, by long-standing international law, to the entirety of Mandatory Palestine. Period. Yet ...
I watched Eugene Kontorovich's lecture on this legal question, years ago. Pretty air tight.
As I understand it, defensive conquest is controversial under international law, but most authorities hold it to be legal. The UN Charter says that no state shall use force to compromise the territorial integrity or political independence of any other state, but since no independent Palestinian state has ever existed west of the Jordan River, that isn't a problem in Judea and Samaria or Gaza. The main problem is the question of annexation vs occupation.
Speaking of solutions that involve redrawing borders, replace the fence with a minefield. Worked for South Korea.
Plus install the Iron Beam system for the next time they send their motorized paraglide squadron. Burn them out of the sky.
Yes. More martyrs for Allah. It works all around.
Comedian Emo Phillips once quipped, "The (jihadists) say they love death like we love life. That should work great for everybody."
Exactly!
Next Time?? Why wasn't there a secure Boarder on Oct 7? NO EXCUSE!!
That IS the question, isn't it? Warnings were issued, but ignored. I dislike criticizing Israel, but heads should roll over this intelligence failure.
Yes! It's the opposite of "I'm sending you to your room." Instead, it's "I'm making your room smaller and smaller."
I find it strange that after such a cogent beginning the author falls into the usual trap of moral handwringing with respect to what is feasible, including worrying about Jewish unity. The fact is there can be no Palestinian state west of the Jordan; Israel must annex Gaza, Judea and Samaria and flood it with Jews. Gaza must be conquered, the PA dismantled, using all military weapons available and minimizing Jewish casualties. Siege warfare and pinpoint military force are obvious weapons. The Palestinians who remain in Gaza, Judea and Samaria after the resistance is wiped out must be put under strict military-civilian control. No votes. No mosques, which will all be closed as they are incendiary hotbeds of Jew hatred and the murder that ensues from them. No international aid. The Palestinians who remain will have to earn their keep. Any who want to leave will be free to do so. This regime will go on for decades until some sign of Palestinian accommodation to peaceful existence with the Jewish state starts to surface. Eventually those Palestinians who adopt such a position can run municipal services. And oh yes, all education to be done in Hebrew. Now what's so hard about that? I bet the Palestinians will move eventually and if not, they will be quiet, because any disturbance of pubic order would lead to severe consequences. Very sever consequences.
This post was originally posted on my personal Substack. After posting it, the handwringing you correctly identify was pointed out to me and I wrote a follow-up where I agreed I had been afraid to follow through to the obvious conclusions of my argument, why I had done so and why I was wrong to have done so. The post is here https://danielgsaunders.substack.com/p/called-out
You propose applying the same global laws and standards to the Arabs on Jewish lands as are applied to every other conflict.
100%
More important than the language of education is the content. Let them have their Arabic - but with Israel controlling the content. Any sign of a resurgence of the murderous existing “education” system should be severely punished.
All civilizations that are based on Western Enlightenment values face the same potential difficulty: compassion versus justice. Here's the thing: we MUST be able to flip a switch when required to "warrior" mode. Do what needs to be done. Then, after peace and stability is restored, we flip the switch back to peace mode. That is our challenge.
Yes. This is true in The West (where the Fight to maintain Living Standards is the permanent job of The Services here in The West too). The Middle East is permanently at War and has been for Many millennia. Israel has the job of policing this 'Forever War'. This is her vital job and she does this magnificently. Am Chai.
I agree, but voluntary relocation is a rational act that people who would rather martyr themselves are unlikely to choose, and it may be a chunk that is too big even for Trump to bite off and chew.
The problem that remains with any relocation idea is that no other country is willing to take them. Understandably.
Except the idiots in the UK who let them in on the grounds of "family reunification" but it is unlikely that Keir Starmer and his lawyer chums will be living next door to them.
I also wrote a short follow-up post to this one here https://danielgsaunders.substack.com/p/called-out
A mass voluntary relocations, as you clearly explain, is nearly impossible. What about the more practical and still devastating blow of Israel annexing northern Gaza? And what about the possibility, after Hamas has been defeated, of autonomy deals with clans?
Hamas is in Alliance with the Re-formed Nazi Party and has been since 2014 when we monitored them in London in extensive Hate Speech as they met in that year to do so. This monitoring was verified and handed to the Authorities and each of the affected groups here in London. They were monitored adopting Genocidal Rhetoric against both Israel and more generally against The Jewish People. Ten years later and it has come to pass.
Hamas is an off-shoot of the Arab Brotherhood from Egypt, who were trained & sponsored by the Nazis during WWII. That's their origin.
The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem stayed as the guest of The Nazi Party in Berlin for the entirety of World War Two. He is photographed shaking hands with Heinrich Himmler, leader of The SS who executed both The Holocaust and the murder of Ethnic Russians in the East 'for Lebensraum in The East for The Ethnic Germans' (Hitler's words). This Alliance was monitored here in London by a group of us, as The Nazi Party re-formed and met to do so in London in 2013.
He was not only the guest of the Third Reich, but he spent the war broadcasting Nazi propaganda to the Arabs.
He was also the person who suggested gassing the Jews to Hitler as a more “efficient” and quicker way of doing away with us. I don’t recall what Hitler had been planning, but even he and his henchmen hadn’t even conceived of anything so heinous and evil.
The SS was experimenting with Carbon Monoxide Gas Trucks at the beginning of the War. So The SS had been planning the use of Gas. But, yes, The Grand Mufti was complicit in the Holocaust. The Use of Gas, which is heavier than air, was monitored under discussion again in 2014 when The Re-Formed Nazi Party met from 2013 here in London. All of this, and our reports, are with the Authorities here.
With sufficient emolument, many people can be persuaded to do something they initially reject. We cannot help but notice that the Palestinians have revealed themselves to be unprincipled. Diplomacy requires that they sustain an aura of possessing honor and agency, while with the left hand they receive lucrative payoffs. $5,000–$10,000 per person plus a new citizenship should do the trick, and the resettling be accomplished under Arab auspices (also with emoluments.) There is room for creativity.
As the writer notes, there are enough obstacles to pragmatic solutions to not include a divided global Jewish people into the mix. But a fear of a schism cannot be permitted to be yet another obstacle to doing the only thing that has never been tried: moving Arabs out of Gaza, Judea and Samaria.
There is no guarantee that we, as a people, will persist into the future. We can choose to do what is right, just, and necessary even for the violent Arabs on Jewish land—and give them opportunities elsewhere. Or we can cave to the world’s double-standards and permit the Arabs and their Jew hating friends to try to destroy Israel again, and again, and again—no matter what rhetorical nonsense is popularized to the contrary.
The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem stayed as the guest of The Nazi Party in Berlin for the entirety of World War Two. He is photographed shaking hands with Heinrich Himmler, leader of The SS who executed both The Holocaust and the murder of Ethnic Russians in the East 'for Lebensraum in The East for The Ethnic Germans' (Hitler's words). This Alliance was monitored here in London by a group of us, as The Nazi Party re-formed and met to do so in London in 2013.
The long term solution to the Arabs of the West Bank and Gaza is that after their total defeat, the Arab world opens their arms to them as brother Arabs and throws on the garbage heap of history the invention of an Arab Palestine.
But none of their brother Arabs want them, and certainly can’t be forced to accept them.
Maybe the best (and safest) possibilities would be:
Either:
The removal of entire the Gazan population to an uninhabited group of outhouse-Pacific islands, without any means (let alone any “right”) of return, with compensation conditional upon agreement to permanent, peaceful existence,
Or:
The removal of the same, entire Gazan population to some uninhabited area of desert (e.g. Sahara, Arabian, Siberian or Antarctic), with the same conditional offer of compensation and without any means (let alone any “right”) of return;
Or, if other of these options are refused, the resumption of war by Israel until the “P*****inian” population agrees to one of the above options - or face annihilation!