Much of the West still clings to the fantasy that Islamists can be coaxed into moderation. But Islamists only see such gestures as weakness to be exploited.
“The only way to deal with such ideologies is to defeat them — just as the world defeated Nazi Germany, fascist Italy, Imperial Japan, and eventually the Soviet Union. Anything less is appeasement, and appeasement always ends in bloodshed.” Bravo!! Thank you for speaking the truth! This “21 point plan” is what they call in law school “an agreement to agree”, which is not a binding contract. And that’s an understatement. Why is the US once again pushing Israel to compromise with homicidal maniacs? And treating Qatar as if it’s an honest broker? They are Islamic supremacists. Jew haters and killers. Hamas supporters. This is all beyond shameful. My heart is broken.
Hats off to Qatar .. ‘with money, you get honey’ and the wider world is being bought by islamist finance from the tiny gulf state, which is in cahoots with Iran and Turkey.
I agree! I believe that Netanyahu has agreed to this because he knows it will fail. We all know that these people are indoctrinated to their core. The only way to convince the weak leaders of the West is to prove that a two state solution cannot work. As for Qatar, I will never understand why Trump agreed a deal with them. I don’t think it will be long before Hamas fights back, wherever they are!
I don’t know if it will or will not fail but at this juncture I can no longer support Trump…as for the leftist lunatics they can burn in hell with the terrorists whom they love…but for Trump to do this is appalling
He is not a liar and you are quite wrong about him because we know him personally. Do you to even say what you did? No I didn’t think so! If you have TDS please keep it to yourself! So quite frankly you do not know what in the world you are talking about! Instead of being like si many others who do not know the man it would beg give you to watch out! Karma is not a pleasant thing as I am told… so beware!
As a starting point Hamas isn't going to agree to either release the hostages or vanish into exile. However if they did...This is actually a good plan. Nobody really thinks this is going to end the conflict. Certainly not Israel. But the deal would accomplish a good deal and would allow Israel to end the conflixt with a strategic victory. 1. The remaining living hostages would be freed which is a vital issue to a huge part of Israeli society and cannot be dismissed. 2. the remaining Hamas fighters would leave Gaza and head to Turkey along with whatever murderers Israel is forced to free 3. The entire Hamas infrastructure including all the tunnels would be destroyed. 4. The IDF would remain deployed pending further negotiation and agreement and Israel would have all the leverage to ensure that whatever happens there is no return to the old status quo with UNWRA poisoning more generations.
Is it peace? no. Is it perfect? no. Is it victory for Israel? Yes. But again for these very reasons, the Hamas death cult won't agree to it.
I don't think they will either. But if they agree to do so they will do so or the war will continue as Israel would not be withdrawing. It is not a despicable bs plan but by far the best one that is going to get full buy in from the United States.
"To negotiate with them is to negotiate with an ideology that does not recognize legitimacy outside of its own absolutist framework." Hamas is a cult in that they recognize nothing but their creed to destroy Israel. Trump is making an effort to end this conflict but I'm sure he knows who he's dealing with which is why he gave them a warning. The only way to negotiate with them is to utterly destroy their organization by force, period.
He’s warned them before, including when he told them they’d better release all the hostages by the day of his inauguration “or else”. They didn’t. He did nothing. There have been other warnings too, also not followed up with action. He talks to them as if they’re rational actors. They aren’t. Does he know this? I’m afraid he does, but instead of backing Israel 100% in defeating them, he pressures them to compromise with these barbaric, cold- blooded antisemitic rapists and killers. Shame on him, shame on the US government, and shame on the formerly-civilized “western world” for giving in to Islamism. God help us.
Amen, brother! Trump's level of understanding the Middle East only shows that he has not yet spoken with Mordechai Kedar. If that were to happen, he wouldn't continue to prove to the A-rabs that he doesn't have a clue. ...It's embarrassing to be stupid!!
A sobering and candid piece, that holds nothing back, Joshua! It is blunt and to the point. Indeed, Hamas will turn down Trump’s peace plan. They’ll see it as yet another sign of western weakness. I give President Trump credit for trying but I don’t think he or his administration understand the psychology behind Hamas. Jihadists don’t care about liberal democracy, human rights, pluralism, free-market capitalism, or any of those lofty ideals. The only thing they respect is force. Unless you take action and take it to them using sheer military might they’ll just laugh at you, which is probably what they’re doing right now as they speak. Also, even if they did by some miracle agree to the plan they would as Joshua points out, take power back once the GITA dissolved or murder and overthrow them, whichever comes first. Remember 2005? Remember how they slaughtered the PA? Does no one learn from history?
Leaving Hamas in tact to any significant degree also guarantees they’ll be back. Hamas will just spend every waking minute planning their comeback. Yasser Arafat engaged in the Oslo Accords for western aid and to get back in the good graces of the Arab League. He smiled and posed for the camera will Yitzhak Rabin. But in private he spoke of merely using the new Palestinian state as jumping off point with which to take the rest of Israel. Hamas wouldn’t hesitate for a second to do the same thing. Jihadists don’t adhere to western values, they seek to destroy them. You can’t compromise with them, they demand nothing less then the whole world under their control. Nothing else will do, they’re playing for keeps. Give them all the incentives, international recognition and concessions you want, it won’t moderate them one bit.
So please international community, no more stupid idealistic peace plans. Instead, back Israel ALL the way and give them free reign to do whatever they need to do! Stop trying to flirt with these Jihadists, they’re basically the mean popular girl who’s stuck up and won’t even give you the time of day. Hamas are genocidal religious fanatics. You don’t negotiate with them and they don’t respect peace negotiations. Israel understands this, you don’t because you’re not from the Middle East. The Abraham Accords didn’t happen because those countries love Israel, they happened because Israel showed strength, which in turn created peace and cooperation.
He has good company with every Prez since maybe Truman. It's hard for a transactional politician (not to mention someone who's not insane) to accept the fact that with some people there is no poss deal to be made, no compromise they will ever agree to.
The choice has always been the same as far as dealing with the Palestinians: either move them all, kill them all, or kick the can and hope the issue becomes someone else's problem. That's why everyone's always chosen #3 .
Western liberals (and I mean this in the most expansive sense) are deeply secular and practical and have no theory of mind for people who are so wildly different. Westerners can't really understand insular sects like the Amish or the Hasids—that they would surrender maximum personal autonomy (our highest good) to live the faith of their ancestors seems bizarre and like some sort of self-imprisonment—so the jihadist seems even more foreign and unknowable.
We the people of the West believe in individualism, pluralism, tolerance, free critical inquiry etc—and we also not so secretly believe 1) that our values and worldviews represent the height of human achievement (even our supposed anti-West "decolonial" Leftists speak full Western liberal-ese when they preach constantly of equality and liberation); and 2) that all people on earth want what we want, want to be just like us, and can be transformed into placid tolerant liberals through the ministrations of well-funded teachers, shrinks and social workers. Inside the heart of every jihadist hides the ghost of Thomas Jefferson, if we just know how to coax it out!
The problem for Israel is that they can't indulge this fantasy—the jihadists aren't only on their TV screens, but just a few miles down the road—yet at the same time it is simply impossible for Western liberals to abandon this dogma, as it provides a foundation for their worldview as well as for its business interests, the belief that a one-world global market and govt is inevitable and it's our historical destiny to achieve this. Sentimental egalitarian humanitarianism is the last sacred belief of our Western progressive oligarchy, their therapeutic self-help (and self-flattering) replacement for religion.
Our Western leaders (political, business, cultural etc) will never look the Medusa of jihadism square in the face, as this would spell the end of their sleepwalking and require them to make some difficult choices they'd prefer to avoid. The Palestinians are like feral children who've been passed between multiple foster families who try to help and save them, before they give up and send them back to where they came from (next door to Israel). There is no hope of any of this changing anytime soon, which I assume most Israelis and their leaders know better than I do, as this situation has been static for almost a century. Oy!
Regarding Western liberals, it’s true they can’t imagine jihadists are motivated by completely different values. Jihadists abhor tolerance and free speech unless they demand it from Westerners. And, sadly, many Westerners are delighted, perhaps unwittingly for some, that they can finally freely express their Jew hatred, previously latent, but now given free expression, masquerading as save the women and children in Gaza from those dastardly Israelis.
1. fully agree, this is BEYOND depressin'--I mean why play the game as it means LIVES lost (IDF)--an' how many terrorists git released ta murder again? WHY duz Israel lose Judea & Sumeria? Why is Israel forced not ta take out killers in "Cutter" if needed? What about PLO runnin' Gaza (chuzzah ta that one....) AWFUL. Awful awful awful.
2. "Netanyahu must show the Israeli public that he is doing everything possible to pursue peace and diplomacy, the hallmarks of the Western world to which Israel belongs." REALLY? Israel has done this zoooooo many times--duz not work. It's like sayin' pat the viscious attack-trained pittbull on the head again--this time mebbe you'll keep a finger....
I'd hoped BiBi would not stand down....this is perp walk frog hop humiliation.... for shame.... an' after such a good speech at the UN.... Throwin' up my hands (virtually at least!)
I think President Trump and Netanyahu made this plan for “peace” knowing it would not work with Hamas. Then, the IDF can go in there and finally clean them out.
Also part of the PR informational war with the Islamists! What better way to get all of the usual suspects (ie western govt leaders MSM the woke leftists) to see that Israel stands for peace and prosperity throughout the MidEast… all the while knowing that Hamas will likely reject the terms of the agreement.
If then, Trump should demand that Qatar cut loose Hamas leadership from its land, and tell the Israelis … to finish the job!
So Israel captures Gaza City, while hundreds of Hamas terrorists just move out with the civilian population and perpetuate this Whack-a Mole forever...and while Israelis languish in this forever war. How is "Total Victory"?
I agree. It's not total victory, it's just kicking the can.
Trump has been equally unsuccessful in solving the Ukraine war. Wars are easy to start and hard to end.
The Gaza war will end when one side loses willpower to continue, or succeeds in subjugating the other. Israel has the capability to win but (so far) not the will.
The Allies did not allow any self-government to Germany and Japan after World War II. Similarly, Israel needs to control Gaza and the West Bank militarily for several generations to ensure that the population is truly pacified and not spreading anti-Semitism to the next generation. That would be a possible solution, but a much better one would be to eliminate any Palestine from being created by removing all Arabs from the West Bank and Gaza and populating with Jews.
Amen! The Arab countries murdered and expelled 850,000 Jews in 1948. Not to mention the many, many times the peaceful, law-abiding Jews have been either expelled, forcibly converted, or killed over the centuries-including in Europe- just for being Jewish. Was there any outcry when this horrific treatment was visited upon the Jews? Shamefully, no. Israel had paid too high a price already for attempting to be fair and generous to those who just want to kill them. When does this madness end?
“The only way to deal with such ideologies is to defeat them — just as the world defeated Nazi Germany, fascist Italy, Imperial Japan, and eventually the Soviet Union. Anything less is appeasement, and appeasement always ends in bloodshed.” Bravo!! Thank you for speaking the truth! This “21 point plan” is what they call in law school “an agreement to agree”, which is not a binding contract. And that’s an understatement. Why is the US once again pushing Israel to compromise with homicidal maniacs? And treating Qatar as if it’s an honest broker? They are Islamic supremacists. Jew haters and killers. Hamas supporters. This is all beyond shameful. My heart is broken.
💯
Hats off to Qatar .. ‘with money, you get honey’ and the wider world is being bought by islamist finance from the tiny gulf state, which is in cahoots with Iran and Turkey.
I agree! I believe that Netanyahu has agreed to this because he knows it will fail. We all know that these people are indoctrinated to their core. The only way to convince the weak leaders of the West is to prove that a two state solution cannot work. As for Qatar, I will never understand why Trump agreed a deal with them. I don’t think it will be long before Hamas fights back, wherever they are!
Why did Trump agree to deal with Qatar? Susan - you know the answer ….$$$$$
Yes! It will come back on him, they are so totally corrupt! 😡
I agree, he at least, has stood by Israel.
Clearly no perfect party in the US
I don’t know if it will or will not fail but at this juncture I can no longer support Trump…as for the leftist lunatics they can burn in hell with the terrorists whom they love…but for Trump to do this is appalling
What were you expecting from a narcissist who does not care for Israel but only for his personal gain? A liar can not be trusted, ever.
His proposals are orders of magnitude better than the idiotic ideas proposed by Joe Biden and Tony Blinken or Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.
He is not a liar and you are quite wrong about him because we know him personally. Do you to even say what you did? No I didn’t think so! If you have TDS please keep it to yourself! So quite frankly you do not know what in the world you are talking about! Instead of being like si many others who do not know the man it would beg give you to watch out! Karma is not a pleasant thing as I am told… so beware!
It is tiresome to have any communication with people of your ilk! Bye
To Dorothee Burney:
Another Kamala Harris/Obama/Biden voter has now spoken.
Not really. I am German and can't vote in the USA.
As a starting point Hamas isn't going to agree to either release the hostages or vanish into exile. However if they did...This is actually a good plan. Nobody really thinks this is going to end the conflict. Certainly not Israel. But the deal would accomplish a good deal and would allow Israel to end the conflixt with a strategic victory. 1. The remaining living hostages would be freed which is a vital issue to a huge part of Israeli society and cannot be dismissed. 2. the remaining Hamas fighters would leave Gaza and head to Turkey along with whatever murderers Israel is forced to free 3. The entire Hamas infrastructure including all the tunnels would be destroyed. 4. The IDF would remain deployed pending further negotiation and agreement and Israel would have all the leverage to ensure that whatever happens there is no return to the old status quo with UNWRA poisoning more generations.
Is it peace? no. Is it perfect? no. Is it victory for Israel? Yes. But again for these very reasons, the Hamas death cult won't agree to it.
The terrorists are not leaving & of that you can be certain; this is a despicable bs plan
"The terrorists are not leaving"
Well, they will be leaving for paradise soon, and 72 goats
I don't think they will either. But if they agree to do so they will do so or the war will continue as Israel would not be withdrawing. It is not a despicable bs plan but by far the best one that is going to get full buy in from the United States.
Perhaps but I cannot support this! My family and friends have lost their lives and I just cannot support this in any way!
I get how you feel. Believe me I do.
"To negotiate with them is to negotiate with an ideology that does not recognize legitimacy outside of its own absolutist framework." Hamas is a cult in that they recognize nothing but their creed to destroy Israel. Trump is making an effort to end this conflict but I'm sure he knows who he's dealing with which is why he gave them a warning. The only way to negotiate with them is to utterly destroy their organization by force, period.
He’s warned them before, including when he told them they’d better release all the hostages by the day of his inauguration “or else”. They didn’t. He did nothing. There have been other warnings too, also not followed up with action. He talks to them as if they’re rational actors. They aren’t. Does he know this? I’m afraid he does, but instead of backing Israel 100% in defeating them, he pressures them to compromise with these barbaric, cold- blooded antisemitic rapists and killers. Shame on him, shame on the US government, and shame on the formerly-civilized “western world” for giving in to Islamism. God help us.
Ask the janitors in Fordow what they think of Trump.
They aren't negotiating with them. Hamas is going to be offered this deal and its either yes or no. Count on no.
I pray you are correct
Or a bunch of alternatives!
Amen, brother! Trump's level of understanding the Middle East only shows that he has not yet spoken with Mordechai Kedar. If that were to happen, he wouldn't continue to prove to the A-rabs that he doesn't have a clue. ...It's embarrassing to be stupid!!
Or to his own US Israeli Ambassador, M Huckabee
The Islamists’ koran tells them they are free to LIE at lib. They can NEVER be counted on as honest brokers.
100% an' AraRat did this already an' even owned it gloatin' 'bout it!
Exactly…TAQIYYA all the way for them… they only know how to LIE cheat steal and push tons of propaganda
A sobering and candid piece, that holds nothing back, Joshua! It is blunt and to the point. Indeed, Hamas will turn down Trump’s peace plan. They’ll see it as yet another sign of western weakness. I give President Trump credit for trying but I don’t think he or his administration understand the psychology behind Hamas. Jihadists don’t care about liberal democracy, human rights, pluralism, free-market capitalism, or any of those lofty ideals. The only thing they respect is force. Unless you take action and take it to them using sheer military might they’ll just laugh at you, which is probably what they’re doing right now as they speak. Also, even if they did by some miracle agree to the plan they would as Joshua points out, take power back once the GITA dissolved or murder and overthrow them, whichever comes first. Remember 2005? Remember how they slaughtered the PA? Does no one learn from history?
Leaving Hamas in tact to any significant degree also guarantees they’ll be back. Hamas will just spend every waking minute planning their comeback. Yasser Arafat engaged in the Oslo Accords for western aid and to get back in the good graces of the Arab League. He smiled and posed for the camera will Yitzhak Rabin. But in private he spoke of merely using the new Palestinian state as jumping off point with which to take the rest of Israel. Hamas wouldn’t hesitate for a second to do the same thing. Jihadists don’t adhere to western values, they seek to destroy them. You can’t compromise with them, they demand nothing less then the whole world under their control. Nothing else will do, they’re playing for keeps. Give them all the incentives, international recognition and concessions you want, it won’t moderate them one bit.
So please international community, no more stupid idealistic peace plans. Instead, back Israel ALL the way and give them free reign to do whatever they need to do! Stop trying to flirt with these Jihadists, they’re basically the mean popular girl who’s stuck up and won’t even give you the time of day. Hamas are genocidal religious fanatics. You don’t negotiate with them and they don’t respect peace negotiations. Israel understands this, you don’t because you’re not from the Middle East. The Abraham Accords didn’t happen because those countries love Israel, they happened because Israel showed strength, which in turn created peace and cooperation.
It is such a disappointment to understand the president as being this naive.
He has good company with every Prez since maybe Truman. It's hard for a transactional politician (not to mention someone who's not insane) to accept the fact that with some people there is no poss deal to be made, no compromise they will ever agree to.
The choice has always been the same as far as dealing with the Palestinians: either move them all, kill them all, or kick the can and hope the issue becomes someone else's problem. That's why everyone's always chosen #3 .
This President can be bought; he loves $$$$
Western liberals (and I mean this in the most expansive sense) are deeply secular and practical and have no theory of mind for people who are so wildly different. Westerners can't really understand insular sects like the Amish or the Hasids—that they would surrender maximum personal autonomy (our highest good) to live the faith of their ancestors seems bizarre and like some sort of self-imprisonment—so the jihadist seems even more foreign and unknowable.
We the people of the West believe in individualism, pluralism, tolerance, free critical inquiry etc—and we also not so secretly believe 1) that our values and worldviews represent the height of human achievement (even our supposed anti-West "decolonial" Leftists speak full Western liberal-ese when they preach constantly of equality and liberation); and 2) that all people on earth want what we want, want to be just like us, and can be transformed into placid tolerant liberals through the ministrations of well-funded teachers, shrinks and social workers. Inside the heart of every jihadist hides the ghost of Thomas Jefferson, if we just know how to coax it out!
The problem for Israel is that they can't indulge this fantasy—the jihadists aren't only on their TV screens, but just a few miles down the road—yet at the same time it is simply impossible for Western liberals to abandon this dogma, as it provides a foundation for their worldview as well as for its business interests, the belief that a one-world global market and govt is inevitable and it's our historical destiny to achieve this. Sentimental egalitarian humanitarianism is the last sacred belief of our Western progressive oligarchy, their therapeutic self-help (and self-flattering) replacement for religion.
Our Western leaders (political, business, cultural etc) will never look the Medusa of jihadism square in the face, as this would spell the end of their sleepwalking and require them to make some difficult choices they'd prefer to avoid. The Palestinians are like feral children who've been passed between multiple foster families who try to help and save them, before they give up and send them back to where they came from (next door to Israel). There is no hope of any of this changing anytime soon, which I assume most Israelis and their leaders know better than I do, as this situation has been static for almost a century. Oy!
Regarding Western liberals, it’s true they can’t imagine jihadists are motivated by completely different values. Jihadists abhor tolerance and free speech unless they demand it from Westerners. And, sadly, many Westerners are delighted, perhaps unwittingly for some, that they can finally freely express their Jew hatred, previously latent, but now given free expression, masquerading as save the women and children in Gaza from those dastardly Israelis.
This plan to use a medical abbreviation is DOA
Excellent
1. fully agree, this is BEYOND depressin'--I mean why play the game as it means LIVES lost (IDF)--an' how many terrorists git released ta murder again? WHY duz Israel lose Judea & Sumeria? Why is Israel forced not ta take out killers in "Cutter" if needed? What about PLO runnin' Gaza (chuzzah ta that one....) AWFUL. Awful awful awful.
2. "Netanyahu must show the Israeli public that he is doing everything possible to pursue peace and diplomacy, the hallmarks of the Western world to which Israel belongs." REALLY? Israel has done this zoooooo many times--duz not work. It's like sayin' pat the viscious attack-trained pittbull on the head again--this time mebbe you'll keep a finger....
I'd hoped BiBi would not stand down....this is perp walk frog hop humiliation.... for shame.... an' after such a good speech at the UN.... Throwin' up my hands (virtually at least!)
I think President Trump and Netanyahu made this plan for “peace” knowing it would not work with Hamas. Then, the IDF can go in there and finally clean them out.
Shana Tova everyone, calm down.
Excellent
Also part of the PR informational war with the Islamists! What better way to get all of the usual suspects (ie western govt leaders MSM the woke leftists) to see that Israel stands for peace and prosperity throughout the MidEast… all the while knowing that Hamas will likely reject the terms of the agreement.
If then, Trump should demand that Qatar cut loose Hamas leadership from its land, and tell the Israelis … to finish the job!
Israel says Yes, Hamas will say No, and then Israel has justification (and domestic support) o finish conquering Gaza City.
So Israel captures Gaza City, while hundreds of Hamas terrorists just move out with the civilian population and perpetuate this Whack-a Mole forever...and while Israelis languish in this forever war. How is "Total Victory"?
I agree. It's not total victory, it's just kicking the can.
Trump has been equally unsuccessful in solving the Ukraine war. Wars are easy to start and hard to end.
The Gaza war will end when one side loses willpower to continue, or succeeds in subjugating the other. Israel has the capability to win but (so far) not the will.
Agree but it would be nice if you could make your comments more concise. It would make for a more cogent opinion. Thanks!
The Allies did not allow any self-government to Germany and Japan after World War II. Similarly, Israel needs to control Gaza and the West Bank militarily for several generations to ensure that the population is truly pacified and not spreading anti-Semitism to the next generation. That would be a possible solution, but a much better one would be to eliminate any Palestine from being created by removing all Arabs from the West Bank and Gaza and populating with Jews.
Amen! The Arab countries murdered and expelled 850,000 Jews in 1948. Not to mention the many, many times the peaceful, law-abiding Jews have been either expelled, forcibly converted, or killed over the centuries-including in Europe- just for being Jewish. Was there any outcry when this horrific treatment was visited upon the Jews? Shamefully, no. Israel had paid too high a price already for attempting to be fair and generous to those who just want to kill them. When does this madness end?