And 15% of Republicans supported Hamas, too. So what? The poll was actually a reminder to Democrats that 75% of them reject Hamas. AOC is a hypocritical joke. Rashida Tlaib (whom I personally know) is an antisemite. All that is true and I agree that the Democratic Party and the "progressives" have gone way too far to the left. But the lesson is not to abandon our other core beliefs. The lesson is that American Jews need to base their support on issues, not labels. I'm pro-choice. I'm anti-DEI. I support Trump's E.O.'s related to Israel and terrorism. I oppose his E.O. on birthright citizenship (if Americans want that changed it should be through the very clear constitutional process). I could go on and on. Yes, Israel and antisemitism are currently my main concerns, but when it comes to those issues, there is work to do on both sides of the spectrum. I'll end where I began. Fifteen percent of (assumedly Jew-hating) Republicans support Hamas over Israel. (P.S. Ritchie Torres has been one of Israel's and the Jews' most vocal supporters, so what does that mean? It means that this does not need to be a partisan issue. Jews don't need to pick the side that likes us the best. We need to get rid of the ones in both parties who hate us.)
When were these numbers gathered? Does this include all age groups in those parties? Are we talking about Republican and Democratic citizens or those in Congress? I've seen different numbers for different age groups.
Admitting that some of this went over my head, I am using it as a learning tool to help me figure out how and why I have been misguided, and how to influence a return to sanity. Thank you for enriching my Shabbat morning Torah study. When in doubt, return to the text. I appreciate your having done that.
Quite thought-provoking to this long-time American Liberal. The answer is neither Right nor Left. We need to strive for some version of "in-between." For Israel, the Right seems more in line with supporting the land of our people against massive threats. No mushy, "we have to be worried about the innocent Moslems," [who want us dead.] But there's plenty to criticize about their views on other issues, like book banning, strict anti-abortion policies, deporting DACA young folks who've spent most of their lives in the US, etc. The Left, has gone off the deep end with their support of Hamas, criticism of Israel's defending itself, opening the gates to any immigrant who can get to the southern border, etc. Joe Lieberman [may his memory be a blessing] had the right idea, for a "middle" party. Too bad we're so polarized. There's way too much ignorance out there.
It is easy for me to misinterpret the following: " And right now, many “liberal” movements are imploding because of increasingly illiberal politicians, policies, and partnerships." I am not at all sure of who even some of those " illiberal politicians, policies, and partnerships" are. If you were implying that the "imploding" is because liberal movements' "politicians, policies, and partnerships" are in fact illiberal then I would understand and agree. I'm not so sure that said liberal movements are imploding due to outside forces. At least not primarily. My bias is that they are imploding because they are rotting from within and have long been rotten. Prof Thomas Sowell has been articulate and outspoken about that in writings and in numerous interviews available on youtube. Shakespeare told us about such matters in Hamlet "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark". When Hilary said the followers of the other American candidate were "deplorables" was the omen I read as "The Repulisverats will win because the Dumbocraps just lost due to hubris". The Dumbocraps are not inclined to admit responsibility. There are a number of FANTASTIC Senators and Congressmen/women who are conservatives and who are attached to their own Repulsiverats party. Nonetheless ... WOW some of them are amazing people and leaders. The Dumbocraps 'best' are mainly scumbuckets from hell and that includes several of 'our own' who are the most extreme 'best of the worst and worst of the best'.
Excellent scholarship indeed. But the real problem is that many Americans are so intellectually isolated that these things are merely ideas or thought experiments.
To those Jews who live in some sort of isolation from others, it is hard to understand with depth of experience.
To those Jews who have worked with others for decades recognize exactly what this essay is conveying. I have said the conservatives are really neo liberals but I cannot find a term for “liberals” who are a danger to the Jewish population. In my personal life I have been attacked by multiple people and organizations by their “Liberal” statements of antisemitism, such as holding pro Palestinian rallies( four human rights groups), accused by former friends as not a Jew because I don’t go to synagogue , and isolation.
I have personally learned of the dangers of “liberals” because I have worked with. Them and trusted them.
Obviously, it has been a perfect camouflage for those who seek to hide their illiberal inclinations for ages. That does not mean the American Left is controlled by extremists.
From fellow-travellers in Roosevelt's days to Hamas admirers in the current Democratic Party - it's a big tent. ( One might even argue that the Republican Party nowadays is hijacked by reactionaries, when staunch conservatives like Romney and Cheney leave the scene)
It's a consequence of a two party system: In Europe with its multi-party system 'liberalism' is more clearly defined. As in Israel, actually.
the rank hypocrisy and the illogical and irrational support for THE MOST ILLIBERAL AND ANTI PROGRESSIVE AND RACIST SUPREMACIST MOVEMENT has been well commented on. Many times and many places. NY Times and The Guardian are leaders of the Orwellian hate Israel contingent. Add to that one communist ...life long, a senator nominally Jewish like Trotsky who made aliyah to all white Vermont and his privileged not from the block Latina princess. I voted against her...she still got easily reelected.
Claiming Spinoza for the Jewish tradition is certainly a take, considering how badly he was treated by the religious establishment of his time and how much his thought rejects the ritualism, insularity and particularism of that tradition. Certainly a great many individuals of Jewish ethnicity contributed to the Enlightenment and Liberal thought to the modern day, but how many can you name that championed specifically Jewish thought? Claiming that the Hebrew Bible “emphasizes the inherent value of every individual as being created in the image of God” is a surface level reading that ignores the contradictions that emerge when one actually applies that interpretation to the actions of God in that same text. Human life is considered rather cheap throughout, to be expended as punishment for the actions of parents, rulers and the people as a whole. It is true that Liberalism takes the (unrealistic and idealistic) surface level take and ignores the practical considerations, which leads to much angst and handwringing over war casualties. Being a conservative, I see no reason to give that tradition much in the way of kudos.
Your description of events and current "liberal philosophy" reminds me of the history of the Soviet Union. That too started as an experiment in social liberalism but eventually could not be maintained without the threat of a trip to the gulag or worse. But also eventually, that system dissolved for the same reasons you described here. Unfortunately, it took the payment of many lives to get there. Which brings us to today. A number of years ago, Arthur Schlesinger, Jr. wrote a book titled "The Cycles of American History". His observations led him to the theory that the pendulum of American politics swings from left to right every 16 years or so. My observation leads me to the judgment that those swings are becoming more extreme. Especially as the generations who have shared a common national experience (WW2, Kennedy's (both) and King assassinations, Vietnam), and therefore have some empathy for each other even as they disagree, die off. We are left with the extremes. Regardless of our judgments regarding the election of Pres. Trump, I believe that we have all dodged a big-time bullet by changing our leadership. Glad you came around Joshua. In closing, the radical libs can K.M.F.A.
The problem with, "Hate speech is not free speech" is how to define hate speech and who gets to define it. If you *ban* hate speech against Jews, where do the bans stop? In the past four years, it was considered "hate speech" to say or write, "There are only two genders." Or, "Almost all terrorism of the past 40 years is due to Muslim Extremists." Or, "I don't think drag queens should be performing for young children." So, unless speech directly encourages violence against any group, as in, "Let's all meet tomorrow at noon and go hunt and kill Jews," then ... we are stuck.
You took the words right out of my mouth. Anyone who expresses a dislike of “diversity” or the Pakistani grooming gangs in the UK is currently being visited by police and locked up. They are releasing actual violent criminals from prisons to free up cells for “hate speech criminals.” The chants of “globalize the intifada” and “from the river to the sea” are definite threats of violence—to Jews and Western Civilization.. How to get people to agree upon this while protecting speech that merely criticizes—such as “I hate Islamism” or “There are only two genders” or calling for a “Ceasefire” (even if I believe the people calling for Ceasefire hate Jews and Israel) is the question. Prior to October 7th, the ADL was wasting its time and money promoting all of the woke causes and condemning people for “misgendering” someone. Their big tag line is “No place for hate.” I believe there is a indeed place for hate. Decent people should hate Hamas and other barbaric death cults that murder, torture and rape innocent people.
I don’t consider myself ‘stuck’. I am considering my own past and present opinions, migrating from the left into the center, reading, learning, searching, figuring out who deserves my vote, having conversations, clarifying my new positions in my mind and in my stated opinions. I think most folks reading “Future of Jewish” are doing the same.
I distinguish liberalism from progressives and the far left. Rather than abandon liberalism, I fully claim it. And there are many Republicans who uphold liberal values but disdain progressives in the far left, who dislike democracy and often seek authoritarianism.
As you imply, the problem is not liberalism itself but a misinterpretation of what it entails by many would-be liberals. They tend to presuppose some metaphysically preordained scopes and limits for liberal rights—a kind of "one true liberalism." This approach, in effect, leans toward moral fundamentalism, undermining the idea that liberalism, at its core, involves the allocation of various rights that inherently impose mutual limitations on one another—tensions that are, arguably, best addressed in practice through majority decisions and democratic processes as the default procedural means.
Another Hoffman bullseye ❤️⭐
And 15% of Republicans supported Hamas, too. So what? The poll was actually a reminder to Democrats that 75% of them reject Hamas. AOC is a hypocritical joke. Rashida Tlaib (whom I personally know) is an antisemite. All that is true and I agree that the Democratic Party and the "progressives" have gone way too far to the left. But the lesson is not to abandon our other core beliefs. The lesson is that American Jews need to base their support on issues, not labels. I'm pro-choice. I'm anti-DEI. I support Trump's E.O.'s related to Israel and terrorism. I oppose his E.O. on birthright citizenship (if Americans want that changed it should be through the very clear constitutional process). I could go on and on. Yes, Israel and antisemitism are currently my main concerns, but when it comes to those issues, there is work to do on both sides of the spectrum. I'll end where I began. Fifteen percent of (assumedly Jew-hating) Republicans support Hamas over Israel. (P.S. Ritchie Torres has been one of Israel's and the Jews' most vocal supporters, so what does that mean? It means that this does not need to be a partisan issue. Jews don't need to pick the side that likes us the best. We need to get rid of the ones in both parties who hate us.)
Actually 19% of Republicans support Hamas and 25% Democrats. Both pretty low, but was surprised about Republicans.
I don’t see much support for Hamas on conservative-leaning platforms but I admit it’s just my impression.
There is a deeply anti-Semitic fringe who are so odd that I can’t classify them politically.
And of course the illiberal left.
When were these numbers gathered? Does this include all age groups in those parties? Are we talking about Republican and Democratic citizens or those in Congress? I've seen different numbers for different age groups.
Admitting that some of this went over my head, I am using it as a learning tool to help me figure out how and why I have been misguided, and how to influence a return to sanity. Thank you for enriching my Shabbat morning Torah study. When in doubt, return to the text. I appreciate your having done that.
Quite thought-provoking to this long-time American Liberal. The answer is neither Right nor Left. We need to strive for some version of "in-between." For Israel, the Right seems more in line with supporting the land of our people against massive threats. No mushy, "we have to be worried about the innocent Moslems," [who want us dead.] But there's plenty to criticize about their views on other issues, like book banning, strict anti-abortion policies, deporting DACA young folks who've spent most of their lives in the US, etc. The Left, has gone off the deep end with their support of Hamas, criticism of Israel's defending itself, opening the gates to any immigrant who can get to the southern border, etc. Joe Lieberman [may his memory be a blessing] had the right idea, for a "middle" party. Too bad we're so polarized. There's way too much ignorance out there.
It is easy for me to misinterpret the following: " And right now, many “liberal” movements are imploding because of increasingly illiberal politicians, policies, and partnerships." I am not at all sure of who even some of those " illiberal politicians, policies, and partnerships" are. If you were implying that the "imploding" is because liberal movements' "politicians, policies, and partnerships" are in fact illiberal then I would understand and agree. I'm not so sure that said liberal movements are imploding due to outside forces. At least not primarily. My bias is that they are imploding because they are rotting from within and have long been rotten. Prof Thomas Sowell has been articulate and outspoken about that in writings and in numerous interviews available on youtube. Shakespeare told us about such matters in Hamlet "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark". When Hilary said the followers of the other American candidate were "deplorables" was the omen I read as "The Repulisverats will win because the Dumbocraps just lost due to hubris". The Dumbocraps are not inclined to admit responsibility. There are a number of FANTASTIC Senators and Congressmen/women who are conservatives and who are attached to their own Repulsiverats party. Nonetheless ... WOW some of them are amazing people and leaders. The Dumbocraps 'best' are mainly scumbuckets from hell and that includes several of 'our own' who are the most extreme 'best of the worst and worst of the best'.
Yes I meant that they are rotting from within.
Excellent scholarship indeed. But the real problem is that many Americans are so intellectually isolated that these things are merely ideas or thought experiments.
To those Jews who live in some sort of isolation from others, it is hard to understand with depth of experience.
To those Jews who have worked with others for decades recognize exactly what this essay is conveying. I have said the conservatives are really neo liberals but I cannot find a term for “liberals” who are a danger to the Jewish population. In my personal life I have been attacked by multiple people and organizations by their “Liberal” statements of antisemitism, such as holding pro Palestinian rallies( four human rights groups), accused by former friends as not a Jew because I don’t go to synagogue , and isolation.
I have personally learned of the dangers of “liberals” because I have worked with. Them and trusted them.
https://rjrwx2.substack.com/p/thoughts-from-a-conservative-jew-c59
Anybody can wear the 'liberal' gawn.
Obviously, it has been a perfect camouflage for those who seek to hide their illiberal inclinations for ages. That does not mean the American Left is controlled by extremists.
From fellow-travellers in Roosevelt's days to Hamas admirers in the current Democratic Party - it's a big tent. ( One might even argue that the Republican Party nowadays is hijacked by reactionaries, when staunch conservatives like Romney and Cheney leave the scene)
It's a consequence of a two party system: In Europe with its multi-party system 'liberalism' is more clearly defined. As in Israel, actually.
Canada is similar to the US. The traditional leftist parties have become so obsessed with identity politics that they’re polling very low just now.
the rank hypocrisy and the illogical and irrational support for THE MOST ILLIBERAL AND ANTI PROGRESSIVE AND RACIST SUPREMACIST MOVEMENT has been well commented on. Many times and many places. NY Times and The Guardian are leaders of the Orwellian hate Israel contingent. Add to that one communist ...life long, a senator nominally Jewish like Trotsky who made aliyah to all white Vermont and his privileged not from the block Latina princess. I voted against her...she still got easily reelected.
Well stated!
Claiming Spinoza for the Jewish tradition is certainly a take, considering how badly he was treated by the religious establishment of his time and how much his thought rejects the ritualism, insularity and particularism of that tradition. Certainly a great many individuals of Jewish ethnicity contributed to the Enlightenment and Liberal thought to the modern day, but how many can you name that championed specifically Jewish thought? Claiming that the Hebrew Bible “emphasizes the inherent value of every individual as being created in the image of God” is a surface level reading that ignores the contradictions that emerge when one actually applies that interpretation to the actions of God in that same text. Human life is considered rather cheap throughout, to be expended as punishment for the actions of parents, rulers and the people as a whole. It is true that Liberalism takes the (unrealistic and idealistic) surface level take and ignores the practical considerations, which leads to much angst and handwringing over war casualties. Being a conservative, I see no reason to give that tradition much in the way of kudos.
https://rjrwx2.substack.com/p/thoughts-from-a-conservative-jew-c59
Your description of events and current "liberal philosophy" reminds me of the history of the Soviet Union. That too started as an experiment in social liberalism but eventually could not be maintained without the threat of a trip to the gulag or worse. But also eventually, that system dissolved for the same reasons you described here. Unfortunately, it took the payment of many lives to get there. Which brings us to today. A number of years ago, Arthur Schlesinger, Jr. wrote a book titled "The Cycles of American History". His observations led him to the theory that the pendulum of American politics swings from left to right every 16 years or so. My observation leads me to the judgment that those swings are becoming more extreme. Especially as the generations who have shared a common national experience (WW2, Kennedy's (both) and King assassinations, Vietnam), and therefore have some empathy for each other even as they disagree, die off. We are left with the extremes. Regardless of our judgments regarding the election of Pres. Trump, I believe that we have all dodged a big-time bullet by changing our leadership. Glad you came around Joshua. In closing, the radical libs can K.M.F.A.
I would add that identity politics have warped the left. People hate it, but the mainstream left is holding on.
Brilliant!
What Martin said. Right on Joshua. Sharing.
The problem with, "Hate speech is not free speech" is how to define hate speech and who gets to define it. If you *ban* hate speech against Jews, where do the bans stop? In the past four years, it was considered "hate speech" to say or write, "There are only two genders." Or, "Almost all terrorism of the past 40 years is due to Muslim Extremists." Or, "I don't think drag queens should be performing for young children." So, unless speech directly encourages violence against any group, as in, "Let's all meet tomorrow at noon and go hunt and kill Jews," then ... we are stuck.
You took the words right out of my mouth. Anyone who expresses a dislike of “diversity” or the Pakistani grooming gangs in the UK is currently being visited by police and locked up. They are releasing actual violent criminals from prisons to free up cells for “hate speech criminals.” The chants of “globalize the intifada” and “from the river to the sea” are definite threats of violence—to Jews and Western Civilization.. How to get people to agree upon this while protecting speech that merely criticizes—such as “I hate Islamism” or “There are only two genders” or calling for a “Ceasefire” (even if I believe the people calling for Ceasefire hate Jews and Israel) is the question. Prior to October 7th, the ADL was wasting its time and money promoting all of the woke causes and condemning people for “misgendering” someone. Their big tag line is “No place for hate.” I believe there is a indeed place for hate. Decent people should hate Hamas and other barbaric death cults that murder, torture and rape innocent people.
Psalm 139:21 David said,”Do not I hate them that hate You O Lord….”
I don’t consider myself ‘stuck’. I am considering my own past and present opinions, migrating from the left into the center, reading, learning, searching, figuring out who deserves my vote, having conversations, clarifying my new positions in my mind and in my stated opinions. I think most folks reading “Future of Jewish” are doing the same.
I used "stuck" in reference to our free speech laws, not to people.
https://rjrwx2.substack.com/p/thoughts-from-a-conservative-jew-c59
I distinguish liberalism from progressives and the far left. Rather than abandon liberalism, I fully claim it. And there are many Republicans who uphold liberal values but disdain progressives in the far left, who dislike democracy and often seek authoritarianism.
So where does that leave Democrats?
As you imply, the problem is not liberalism itself but a misinterpretation of what it entails by many would-be liberals. They tend to presuppose some metaphysically preordained scopes and limits for liberal rights—a kind of "one true liberalism." This approach, in effect, leans toward moral fundamentalism, undermining the idea that liberalism, at its core, involves the allocation of various rights that inherently impose mutual limitations on one another—tensions that are, arguably, best addressed in practice through majority decisions and democratic processes as the default procedural means.