Reducing Israel to a binary stance is not just reductive; it is the intellectual equivalent of a fast-food meal: satisfying in the moment, but devoid of any real substance.
While you're correct that the terms "pro-Israel" and "anti-Israel" are reductionist and binary, none of this conversation would even be necessary if there was not a worldwide, somewhat coordinated, effort to delegitimize, demonize and apply double standards to Israel (yes, I'm quite deliberately invoking Sharansky's "3D" definition of antisemitism). Those who oppose, for example, the homophobic, misogynistic and tyrannical rule of the mullahs in Tehran aren't concluding "therefore, the Persian people have forfeited their right to national self-determination". Same with China, Turkey, Russia, and so on. Only in the case of Israel does "anti" far too often mean that. (Standard disclaimer: you do need to ask what someone means when they say they're "anti-Israel"; maybe they just oppose the way Israel is conducting the war, and so on, without descending into antisemitism.) And regardless of whether they are engaging with the complexity of the country and the society or a caricature of it, anyone advocating for the elimination of Jewish self-determination needs to be called out. At the same time, we can and should help those calling it out to understand the incredibly messy nature of Israeli society and its government!
So the existence of "anti-Israel" people requires those of us who support the existence of the Jewish state to oppose them. We can say we're "pro-Israel", we can say we are "Zionist," but regardless of how we say it we are indicating our opposition to the antisemitic viewpoint. Now "pro-Israel" can also have a wide spectrum; one can absolutely support the right of the people of Israel to determine their own future without agreeing with every decision their government takes. I don't think anyone would question that ZOA is supportive of Israel, but they have strongly criticized the ceasefire with Lebanon that the elected government of Israel just agreed to. There are also those who claim to be "pro-Israel" and support an arms embargo against it, which strikes me as a fundamentally inconsistent position. But things like that do muddy the waters of discourse considerably. Nonetheless, as long as the antisemitic viewpoint exists, we are obligated to oppose it. What term you'd want to use to describe that can certainly be discussed.
I'd only say that those who "maybe ...just oppose the way Israel is conducting the war" I would bet have never experienced any kind of conflict of any sort, in any way, never mind been involved in 'conducting' a conflict and therefore, their armchair opinions are irrelevant. Does one think they express an opinion on how Ukraine is conducting their war against Russia?
Democracy is about everyone making their opinions known, without any test other than age and citizenship to qualify them to cast a vote. So while everyone does indeed have a right to their opinion, we also have a right to call them out for having no specific knowledge or real-world experience on which to base it. That's the marketplace of ideas!
I would say that for those of us who are pro-Israel, Zionist or whatever other term you use, that we also have a moral obligation to render those opinions with a certain degree of humility if we don't live in Israel with direct exposure to the consequences of those opinions. That not only goes for the supposedly "pro-Israel" organizations that call for an arms embargo against Israel from the relative safety of America, but it also goes for the "don't give an inch, don't accept any ceasefire" crowd that is vocally opposing the Israeli government (also from the relative safety of America). That doesn't mean we can't hold and promote our opinions, but that we should recognize 1) our relative lack of standing compared to Israelis and 2) the effect within our diaspora society of doing so. This doesn't mean we don't have a right to speak up! I believe that as a Zionist Jew, I have a stake in Israel, even if only as a potential refuge (though in my case it's far more than that; I've been a public activist for Israel for 20 years). So as an example: I am strongly opposed to much of the judicial reform proposals that the government was trying to enact. (Am I an expert in Israel's legal system? No. But I have read quite a bit from both proponents and opponents of the proposals). And while I was very comfortable standing in Kaplan Street and outside the PM's residence in Jerusalem in rallies about it, my own line was that I would not participate in such rallies in the US.
Everyone's mileage will vary on this point. But those of us outside Israel should, at a minimum, recognize that we simply do not have the "skin in the game" that Israelis do.
Quite the situation for the American public . Their opinions are predicated on a mix of endless propaganda, misunderstandings, and little to no experience with a people under existential crisis !
The only double standard applied to Israel is that it can commit genocide and be defended, it can commit rape and call it a tool of war and be supported, it can openly call for the ethnic cleansing and complete destruction of a neighbor which it has held prisoner for more than 75 years and still be called moral. The only difference between Israel and Nazi Germany is the language they speak.
It’s not antisemitism to call out a cult of murder and ethnic cleansing.
You people show no empathy so you are bound to reap what you sow, which is most of the world despising, loathing the state of Israel. Sane people have had enough, the Israeli state needs to be dismantled in the same way South Africa was.
What other society has operated in such a violent , terroristic, and with vitriolic hatred , and allowed to continue in this path with only verbal and written objection, and fully with the unquestionable cooperation and endorsement of another society? Don’t believe this has taken place at another time in human history!!
Very well said, Joshua!!! Excellent writing. I honestly had to look up a few simple words that I should have know the meaning of years ago!
I agree with your point entirely.
I honestly love Israel with her complexities and as you say flaws of which I know very little. The reason I admire Israel is because I have been there and served during the time of the bombing of the U.S. Marine Barracks in Beirut, Lebanon and was there when we rescued Yasser Arafat when Israel had him and his troops pushed against the sea. Something I thought at the time, and still do, was a mistake. We should have let Israel finish this terrorist off. I am aware of the enemy, Hezbollah from the time of the terrorist bombing conducted by Hezbollah. Because if this experience is recognized the complexities that you described. Only, that is the limit of my knowledge of those complexities. Yet my limited awareness of those complexities causes me to find clarity in the reality that Israel must defend herself from a determined host of enemies that surround her like a pack of ravaging wolves that makes conditional love of county an extremely stupid and dangerous luxury that only friended from a huge distance can afford to entertain. Israelis must love their country without conditions. Yes, when the can. They must be critical of themselves while staying armed and read to defend their right to exist as country even when their country may need, for its own sake to correct errors or flaws. When I was growing in America it was our country, right or wrong it is our country.. We will challenge and correct ourselves but we will fight anyone else in the world seeking to correct us against our will!
I see that spirit in the face of the IDF forces and all Israelis who justifiably love their country, right or wrong, unconditionally.
In the interest of full disclosure at this point I will also confess that my respect for Israel is greatly influenced by my Christian faith that from my childhood taught me the virtues and vices of the Old Testament characters of Moses, the prophets, the kings and the Ten Commandments and the wisdom of Solomon etc. this would explain my idealistic respect underpinning a bias toward Israel. But it does not influence my unconditional love for the nation and people of Israel. That comes from my experience with them when I spent time integration and in the city of Haifa during the Lebanese civil war.
I understand your point and it is do true. The leftist are using any conflict in the world to push for their global agenda. They do not care why Israel must fight for survival. They are using Israel to achieve their aim. That is why they actually join hands with the, “river to the sea” crowd.
Many on the right do similar things to further their anti leftists cause.
I support Israel without conditions in solidarity with their righteous cause to exist in the world as a self governed people determining their own destinies based upon their needs, requirements and rights to live as human beings in this world.
Those who want Israel to pack up and leave cannot tell them where they should go other than where they are now. So the choice for them is to accept extinction or resist tyranny. I support the resistance of the tyrannical idea of the destruction of Israel as a people and a nation. I support it unconditionally. It is my view that Israel should accept nothing short of unconditional surrender from their enemies or the utter destruction of them.
Great piece. I’ve never thought about how weird it is to be “pro” or “anti-Israel,” as evidenced by how weird it feels to say “pro-Japan” or “pro-France.” It does seem to signal that it has less to do with Israel than the projections or fever dreams people have in their own minds. I continue to be horrified by what’s happening to Jews the world over and I never seem to find anyone who cares, is worried about, or even aware of it in real life.
It's not weird to be anti-israel because that literally means anti-apartheid, anti-occupation, anti-islamophobia, anti-racist, anti-fascist, and anti-military spending. You should reevaluate your understanding of the phrase and your understanding of what Israel is and what it does.
I’m not going to try to change your mind, but I do want to note how damaging it is to use a country as synecdoche for all those things. Can you understand that viewpoint or would you like me to clarify? Thinking wholistically, do you believe Israel is nothing more than occupying, islamophobic, fascist military spenders? I encourage you to say, ‘of course not,’ since the people of the country go back some 3000 years. I also encourage people to critique all governing bodies. It’s important to be verbose in the distinction, as shorthand lends itself to reaffirming toxic ideals over time, and laypeople won’t often ask for clarification.
Yes, description in the third sentence is perfect. Israel is literally nothing more than a state of occupying islamophobic fascist religious supremacists. The government, the populace, the media, all of it, from top to bottom. This is borne out by all of the available evidence, which the Israelis proudly flaunt. I don't believe in ownership of land so your colonial return bullshit is just more supremacist nonsense. The modern state of Israel was founded on ethnic cleansing, by design. Theodor herzl wrote it himself.
Thanks for replying. Could you address my first two sentences as well? It's odd to include the populace within the opinion, given Israel has many religious groups - do you limit your vitriol to only Jews?
Do you believe in ethical colonization then? Since Arabs are from Arabia (and Jews are from Judea) but have since spread out further. Jews have been in the land longer, that's consistently provable.
And you can't play the Jewish card, because I'm f****** Jewish. I am safer as a Jewish American than anyone has ever been in the illegal apartheid state of Israel. It is a fascist colonial project intended to help maintain control of the region and extract oil through endless wars. That's what you're defending. I consider you a Nazi.
I just rode out a whole reply and that apparently Substack didn't save it, so I'll summarize. You are sea lioning, you are being disingenuous, Israel is an illegal apartheid ethno supremacist genocide State committing terrorism, the entire israeli- Jewish population is terroristic to the point of arranging class trips and family trips to go on boats and to looking platforms to watch a genocide occur in real time, to literally watch the bombs as they massacre men and women and children relentlessly forever. It was created on a basis of ethnic cleansing according to the founders. The only reason the United States supports it with so many billions of dollars is because it is the only place from which the Western imperialist powers can launch their forever wars against the Muslim world and the oil-rich Nations that it seeks to exploit. Jewish supremacy is as cancerous as white supremacy, and what Israel is doing is at least as bad as what the Europeans did to the natives of turtle Island. You are defending a Holocaust. I consider you a Nazi. But even the Nazis weren't filming themselves dancing on the corpses of Jews and taking their kids to point and laugh as other kids were slaughtered by the tens of thousands. The Nazis at least knew that they should be ashamed of what they were doing, and attempted to keep it hidden. The Israelis do it f****** proudly. I stand for the complete and total dissolution of the state of Israel permanently and the return of a free Palestine in which all peoples can live peacefully as they already had for hundreds of years.
I just looked up sea lioning since I've never heard that before, here is a copy paste from Wikipedia: "Sealioning is a type of trolling or harassment that consists of pursuing people with relentless requests for evidence, often tangential or previously addressed, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity ("I'm just trying to have a debate"), and feigning ignorance of the subject matter."
I have not:
requested evidence
pursued you relentlessly
harassed you
and none of my comment was tangential. Read the original post, this is exactly the subject of the post we are commenting on, and you continue to avoid the main point of my comments.
Only twitter could make civility a bad thing, haha. I only wanted you to address my comment fully. You then didn't respond to my next comment - at all - and called me a Nazi. I wasn't looking for a debate, I wanted to have a conversation and hear your viewpoint in a more fleshed out manner than a youtube comment or tweet. I'm not interested anymore!
Well written and its almost all true. But Israel is not a normal country. It is not a normal country for a lot of reasons but here are a few.
1. It is under relentless assault by its much larger neighbors, formerly the Arabs now the Mullah regime of Iran and its proxies.
2. It is the world's only Jewish majority state made up of history's most relentlessly persecuted people.
3. It is hated with a relentless obsession by the vast majority of the Islamic world.
4. It is of vital religious importance to millions of Christians in a way that no other country is or can be.
5. It is the relentless focus (and has been for many decades) of the world's leftists as an example extraordinaire of Western colonialism entirely falsely.
All the above is true and also true are the things you say about Israel and it's messy and wonderful complexity.
The first part of the essay where you focus on so called supporters of Israel who's willingness that Israel survive be contingent on its being what they want it to be could have been written to describe Thomas Friedman of the NY Times and his ilk. They are not supporters of Israel. They are fakers. Support and loyalty are not contingent. Nor is love. Lovers of Israel when critical do not do so in common cause with Israel's enemies. We do it internally. With each other.
Good writing and presentation. However, it misses the crux of the matter for me. The basis is spiritual. Here is where I stand.
A few thousand years ago God, for whatever reason, chose Abraham Isaac and Jacob and promised the land of Israel to them and their offspring with the implication that said real estate was precious to Him. But, there was the need to wait 400 years for them to take possession of that land because the “iniquity” of the current occupants was not yet complete i.e. it would require another 400 years for them to be hopelessly degraded and corrupted. Furthermore, they would spend most of those years as slaves in what turned out to be Egypt. Then God shepherded them out of slavery into the land of promise and assisted them to possess it. Then they(the Jews) in turn became corrupted and were in their turn expelled from the land of promise, but not without Gods declaration that He would recover them and again bring them back to this land as His people whose hearts were turned to Him.
We see this clearly in the Bible. The suffering of the Jews and their return to the land is plainly prophesied. The suffering isn’t over yet. Many of the indicators of the end of this age, which are also clearly prophesied in the holy writings, are “knocking at the door” eager to be manifested. Israel, “the land of Immanuel” is loved by God and therefore hated by Satan, the “prince of this world”, who is opposing God. This is the source of the anger of the governments of this earth toward Jews comprising the nation of Israel. The armies of the nations of the earth are being gathered together for their destruction by the returning Messiah leading the army of heaven.
The last few years have brought into the open the hatred of the governments of the earth for Jews and Christians.
So, as Joshua questioned the visitor to the camp of Israel as to whose “side” he was on and received the response that as captain of the hosts of God he had come — so where do I stand in the current situation? I stand with God who gave the land of Israel to the Jews and consider those who would overturn that as my enemies.
A most interesting prospective from a Christian theological perspective. I very much respect your views and concur with your conclusion. Thanks for writing.
I know what you mean Joshua, I've known a few "I used to be for Israel, but" people over the years. There was a noticeable change here in the UK back in the seventies which went from folk chanting "don't give in to Arab blackmail" in 1970 to voices expressing concern about "Israeli aggressions" soon after. There was a shift from viewing Israel as the underdog to seeing the newly invented Palestinian Arab people as worthy of that designation. Even more fair weather friends have come and gone as recently as 2009 and 2014 when the "but" became Gaza, and, I don't doubt the current war has produced similar results. Having said that, there are signs that October 7th has opened the eyes of some to the irrational hatred underpinning much of the anti-Israel discourse. Being a non-Jewish Zionist is a choice and it has lost me friends and sadly even relatives over the years. In my own modest way, I kind of hope I am the most annoying pro-Israel person I possibly can be, only, hopefully not in the eyes of the Jewish community.
Not sure you can rightly call it "discourse." It's just pure noise-hate that makes a spectacle of itself, congratulates itself for being so righteous, and then summarily collapses onto the floor and starts to chew on the rug.
Call it what you want, it exists. I try not to see things in black and white and look for grey areas, or nuance. Valid criticism of Israel exists alongside the detritus you have addressed, which I myself addressed with the words "the irrational hatred underpinning much of the anti-Israel discourse."
While I agree with the sentiments there is a more practical need - to distinguish between beliefs and actual behaviour...
You can believe what you want, but it is your actions that truly determine your "values". You can be pro-Israel but when you shrink away from e.g. denouncing an anti-Semitic slur your values aren't exactly worth all that much. A neutral who acts in support of liberal values is a better ally than a philo-semite who goes schtum when the road gets rough.
In my own mental progression toward being a supporter of Israel it wasn't the history nor ideology that swayed me but actions - any person who advocates for human rights and liberalism simply has no choice but to support the state that upholds these (imperfectly) versus an entity that explicitly rejects them.
Very good article. What I find extremely interesting is how many Jews instead of trying to understand what happening & challenging their knowledge aren’t interested in understanding international law but prefer to be swayed by the media which tends to be equally as ignorant. Then there are those who don’t understand Judaism as a belief system & the extreme left dislikes all religions & are equally unable to comprehend the complexities of a nation that’s both Sacred/Spiritual & Secular; they’re culturally so entangled & inseparable that both aspects are a vital part of what Israel stands for. I hope this makes sense. The differences are equal in importance & need to be acknowledged & given their due respect.
There are pro-Israel because there are anti-Israel who want this country dead. Without those anti-Israel, the pro-Israel would still love this country, and would also criticize it, its crazy administration, its too high taxes or other stuffs. However with the goal to improve it, not to destroy it.
There is another country that gets the pro anti treatment, of course, and that’s America. The term ‘anti-American’ is used often domestically to refer to specific attitudes and values that go against the American ethos, but it’s also used in reference to the whole country by non Americans. At least, that was my experience in Canada growing up where in the 1970s it was de rigeur to be anti American. I thought of myself as anti American, though I didn’t know really what the hell I meant by that. Just that it was a big bully or something. I don’t think I was challenging the legitimacy of the country or anything like that.
On the other hand, nowadays it’s very possible to meet people who are anti Canada. They wouldn’t use that language exactly, but they might refer to Canada as ‘so-called’ or put Canada in scare quotes. And they are indeed challenging the legitimacy of its existence. Most likely they would see themselves as championing indigenous rights against ‘settler colonialism’ You can know from that, of course, what their stance on Israel would be.
Looking back, my theory is it was a period of Canada beginning to assert itself, Trudeau's impact, anti-war feeling, 'identity' debates, Can-con, the rise of Canlit etc. and one aspect being anti-Americanism. One of my friends was very pro-American and we used to get into long arguments. Today, I'd likely agree with him more than not.
An inimitable and classic piece of writing, Mr. Hoffman. I'm personally quite grateful to have read this marvelous essay on Thanksgiving Day in the U.S. Perhaps someone -- any one and every one -- in every Jewish neighborhood, temple, synagogue, shul, yeshiva, and the very pulpit itself should be required to read this expository every day of their lives.
The double standard Israel faces irritates me to no end. Yes I’m an American Democrat and my family voted for Harris. But the deference shown to American Palestinians really pisses me off. I know I’m living under fascism now. I’ll never see my hard earned Social Security or Medicare.
But I hope, with complete sincerity, that I never have to witness another Pro Hamas demonstration ever again on American soil. I love it that Rashida Tlaib is barking mad that she won’t get funding from the feds to support Muslim “charities” that support terrorism.
That sounds fairly condescending. It’s almost as annoying as the Democrats who try to convince me that men can magically turn into women. I
I’m sorry Penny, I’m smarter than that. Americans have decided that they want to live under totalitarianism. Give The People what they want. Read about The Heritage Foundations’ Project 2025. I’ve been studying the Heritage Foundation for a decade. Republicans adopt every freaky conspiracy theory without question. But they don’t talk about Project 2025. Get ready for the future, because there’s no going back now.
Julia I agree it’s very difficult to know any real truths. Our governments lie to us, they lie to the media. We are left squabbling between ourselves.
I honestly believe the majority of people do not hate Jewish people. Most people simply want the killing to stop. The Palestinian people are outnumbered and outgunned, October 7th was a direct result of the futility of the situation they have been stuck in for decades.
The only people that can stop this now are the Israeli people themselves yet how can they do this when the hatred is so ingrained, so complete? Compassion and empathy is the only answer, this can be stopped I think.
I don’t want to fight with you, I don’t want to fight with anyone, yet I find the frustration of the situation driving me this way. Once again I apologise for attacking you.
I accept your apology without reservation Darryl. And It fills me with gratitude and respect for you on a personal level. Take good care of yourself. ☮️
I’m sorry Darryl, I mean that. I must seem like a horrible person. I’m not I promise. Sometimes it’s hard for me to know what the truth is. The US and Israel are all alone in the ME. And the US is in severe decline. This must end, for everyone involved. Yes, most importantly the precious children.
Where do you find expressions of pro- Palestinian support without acknowledging the widespread endorsements of pro-Israel, (except Zionisim is left out due to its selfish supremacist behavior). ?
I have no patience for antisemitism. Especially from a group with super sensitive reactions to any critique of political Islam. It’s hypocritical and it’s ugly. If Palestinians care about their own lives, I would suggest they pay attention to their own military endeavors.
World circumstances are changing rapidly. I hope American pro Hamas elements don’t decide to ‘protest’ the trump admin. It won’t end well. Ok?
Brilliant. Made me examine this semantical perspective in a way I’ve overlooked. Another tool to disarm the horde of virtue signalers who typically know only what the legacy media feeds them.
While you're correct that the terms "pro-Israel" and "anti-Israel" are reductionist and binary, none of this conversation would even be necessary if there was not a worldwide, somewhat coordinated, effort to delegitimize, demonize and apply double standards to Israel (yes, I'm quite deliberately invoking Sharansky's "3D" definition of antisemitism). Those who oppose, for example, the homophobic, misogynistic and tyrannical rule of the mullahs in Tehran aren't concluding "therefore, the Persian people have forfeited their right to national self-determination". Same with China, Turkey, Russia, and so on. Only in the case of Israel does "anti" far too often mean that. (Standard disclaimer: you do need to ask what someone means when they say they're "anti-Israel"; maybe they just oppose the way Israel is conducting the war, and so on, without descending into antisemitism.) And regardless of whether they are engaging with the complexity of the country and the society or a caricature of it, anyone advocating for the elimination of Jewish self-determination needs to be called out. At the same time, we can and should help those calling it out to understand the incredibly messy nature of Israeli society and its government!
So the existence of "anti-Israel" people requires those of us who support the existence of the Jewish state to oppose them. We can say we're "pro-Israel", we can say we are "Zionist," but regardless of how we say it we are indicating our opposition to the antisemitic viewpoint. Now "pro-Israel" can also have a wide spectrum; one can absolutely support the right of the people of Israel to determine their own future without agreeing with every decision their government takes. I don't think anyone would question that ZOA is supportive of Israel, but they have strongly criticized the ceasefire with Lebanon that the elected government of Israel just agreed to. There are also those who claim to be "pro-Israel" and support an arms embargo against it, which strikes me as a fundamentally inconsistent position. But things like that do muddy the waters of discourse considerably. Nonetheless, as long as the antisemitic viewpoint exists, we are obligated to oppose it. What term you'd want to use to describe that can certainly be discussed.
I'd only say that those who "maybe ...just oppose the way Israel is conducting the war" I would bet have never experienced any kind of conflict of any sort, in any way, never mind been involved in 'conducting' a conflict and therefore, their armchair opinions are irrelevant. Does one think they express an opinion on how Ukraine is conducting their war against Russia?
Democracy is about everyone making their opinions known, without any test other than age and citizenship to qualify them to cast a vote. So while everyone does indeed have a right to their opinion, we also have a right to call them out for having no specific knowledge or real-world experience on which to base it. That's the marketplace of ideas!
I would say that for those of us who are pro-Israel, Zionist or whatever other term you use, that we also have a moral obligation to render those opinions with a certain degree of humility if we don't live in Israel with direct exposure to the consequences of those opinions. That not only goes for the supposedly "pro-Israel" organizations that call for an arms embargo against Israel from the relative safety of America, but it also goes for the "don't give an inch, don't accept any ceasefire" crowd that is vocally opposing the Israeli government (also from the relative safety of America). That doesn't mean we can't hold and promote our opinions, but that we should recognize 1) our relative lack of standing compared to Israelis and 2) the effect within our diaspora society of doing so. This doesn't mean we don't have a right to speak up! I believe that as a Zionist Jew, I have a stake in Israel, even if only as a potential refuge (though in my case it's far more than that; I've been a public activist for Israel for 20 years). So as an example: I am strongly opposed to much of the judicial reform proposals that the government was trying to enact. (Am I an expert in Israel's legal system? No. But I have read quite a bit from both proponents and opponents of the proposals). And while I was very comfortable standing in Kaplan Street and outside the PM's residence in Jerusalem in rallies about it, my own line was that I would not participate in such rallies in the US.
Everyone's mileage will vary on this point. But those of us outside Israel should, at a minimum, recognize that we simply do not have the "skin in the game" that Israelis do.
Quite the situation for the American public . Their opinions are predicated on a mix of endless propaganda, misunderstandings, and little to no experience with a people under existential crisis !
The only double standard applied to Israel is that it can commit genocide and be defended, it can commit rape and call it a tool of war and be supported, it can openly call for the ethnic cleansing and complete destruction of a neighbor which it has held prisoner for more than 75 years and still be called moral. The only difference between Israel and Nazi Germany is the language they speak.
And thank you for illustrating the antisemitic viewpoint I was describing, troll.
It’s not antisemitism to call out a cult of murder and ethnic cleansing.
You people show no empathy so you are bound to reap what you sow, which is most of the world despising, loathing the state of Israel. Sane people have had enough, the Israeli state needs to be dismantled in the same way South Africa was.
What other society has operated in such a violent , terroristic, and with vitriolic hatred , and allowed to continue in this path with only verbal and written objection, and fully with the unquestionable cooperation and endorsement of another society? Don’t believe this has taken place at another time in human history!!
Very well said, Joshua!!! Excellent writing. I honestly had to look up a few simple words that I should have know the meaning of years ago!
I agree with your point entirely.
I honestly love Israel with her complexities and as you say flaws of which I know very little. The reason I admire Israel is because I have been there and served during the time of the bombing of the U.S. Marine Barracks in Beirut, Lebanon and was there when we rescued Yasser Arafat when Israel had him and his troops pushed against the sea. Something I thought at the time, and still do, was a mistake. We should have let Israel finish this terrorist off. I am aware of the enemy, Hezbollah from the time of the terrorist bombing conducted by Hezbollah. Because if this experience is recognized the complexities that you described. Only, that is the limit of my knowledge of those complexities. Yet my limited awareness of those complexities causes me to find clarity in the reality that Israel must defend herself from a determined host of enemies that surround her like a pack of ravaging wolves that makes conditional love of county an extremely stupid and dangerous luxury that only friended from a huge distance can afford to entertain. Israelis must love their country without conditions. Yes, when the can. They must be critical of themselves while staying armed and read to defend their right to exist as country even when their country may need, for its own sake to correct errors or flaws. When I was growing in America it was our country, right or wrong it is our country.. We will challenge and correct ourselves but we will fight anyone else in the world seeking to correct us against our will!
I see that spirit in the face of the IDF forces and all Israelis who justifiably love their country, right or wrong, unconditionally.
In the interest of full disclosure at this point I will also confess that my respect for Israel is greatly influenced by my Christian faith that from my childhood taught me the virtues and vices of the Old Testament characters of Moses, the prophets, the kings and the Ten Commandments and the wisdom of Solomon etc. this would explain my idealistic respect underpinning a bias toward Israel. But it does not influence my unconditional love for the nation and people of Israel. That comes from my experience with them when I spent time integration and in the city of Haifa during the Lebanese civil war.
I understand your point and it is do true. The leftist are using any conflict in the world to push for their global agenda. They do not care why Israel must fight for survival. They are using Israel to achieve their aim. That is why they actually join hands with the, “river to the sea” crowd.
Many on the right do similar things to further their anti leftists cause.
I support Israel without conditions in solidarity with their righteous cause to exist in the world as a self governed people determining their own destinies based upon their needs, requirements and rights to live as human beings in this world.
Those who want Israel to pack up and leave cannot tell them where they should go other than where they are now. So the choice for them is to accept extinction or resist tyranny. I support the resistance of the tyrannical idea of the destruction of Israel as a people and a nation. I support it unconditionally. It is my view that Israel should accept nothing short of unconditional surrender from their enemies or the utter destruction of them.
Great piece. I’ve never thought about how weird it is to be “pro” or “anti-Israel,” as evidenced by how weird it feels to say “pro-Japan” or “pro-France.” It does seem to signal that it has less to do with Israel than the projections or fever dreams people have in their own minds. I continue to be horrified by what’s happening to Jews the world over and I never seem to find anyone who cares, is worried about, or even aware of it in real life.
It's not weird to be anti-israel because that literally means anti-apartheid, anti-occupation, anti-islamophobia, anti-racist, anti-fascist, and anti-military spending. You should reevaluate your understanding of the phrase and your understanding of what Israel is and what it does.
I’m not going to try to change your mind, but I do want to note how damaging it is to use a country as synecdoche for all those things. Can you understand that viewpoint or would you like me to clarify? Thinking wholistically, do you believe Israel is nothing more than occupying, islamophobic, fascist military spenders? I encourage you to say, ‘of course not,’ since the people of the country go back some 3000 years. I also encourage people to critique all governing bodies. It’s important to be verbose in the distinction, as shorthand lends itself to reaffirming toxic ideals over time, and laypeople won’t often ask for clarification.
Yes, description in the third sentence is perfect. Israel is literally nothing more than a state of occupying islamophobic fascist religious supremacists. The government, the populace, the media, all of it, from top to bottom. This is borne out by all of the available evidence, which the Israelis proudly flaunt. I don't believe in ownership of land so your colonial return bullshit is just more supremacist nonsense. The modern state of Israel was founded on ethnic cleansing, by design. Theodor herzl wrote it himself.
Thanks for replying. Could you address my first two sentences as well? It's odd to include the populace within the opinion, given Israel has many religious groups - do you limit your vitriol to only Jews?
Do you believe in ethical colonization then? Since Arabs are from Arabia (and Jews are from Judea) but have since spread out further. Jews have been in the land longer, that's consistently provable.
And you can't play the Jewish card, because I'm f****** Jewish. I am safer as a Jewish American than anyone has ever been in the illegal apartheid state of Israel. It is a fascist colonial project intended to help maintain control of the region and extract oil through endless wars. That's what you're defending. I consider you a Nazi.
I just rode out a whole reply and that apparently Substack didn't save it, so I'll summarize. You are sea lioning, you are being disingenuous, Israel is an illegal apartheid ethno supremacist genocide State committing terrorism, the entire israeli- Jewish population is terroristic to the point of arranging class trips and family trips to go on boats and to looking platforms to watch a genocide occur in real time, to literally watch the bombs as they massacre men and women and children relentlessly forever. It was created on a basis of ethnic cleansing according to the founders. The only reason the United States supports it with so many billions of dollars is because it is the only place from which the Western imperialist powers can launch their forever wars against the Muslim world and the oil-rich Nations that it seeks to exploit. Jewish supremacy is as cancerous as white supremacy, and what Israel is doing is at least as bad as what the Europeans did to the natives of turtle Island. You are defending a Holocaust. I consider you a Nazi. But even the Nazis weren't filming themselves dancing on the corpses of Jews and taking their kids to point and laugh as other kids were slaughtered by the tens of thousands. The Nazis at least knew that they should be ashamed of what they were doing, and attempted to keep it hidden. The Israelis do it f****** proudly. I stand for the complete and total dissolution of the state of Israel permanently and the return of a free Palestine in which all peoples can live peacefully as they already had for hundreds of years.
I just looked up sea lioning since I've never heard that before, here is a copy paste from Wikipedia: "Sealioning is a type of trolling or harassment that consists of pursuing people with relentless requests for evidence, often tangential or previously addressed, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity ("I'm just trying to have a debate"), and feigning ignorance of the subject matter."
I have not:
requested evidence
pursued you relentlessly
harassed you
and none of my comment was tangential. Read the original post, this is exactly the subject of the post we are commenting on, and you continue to avoid the main point of my comments.
Only twitter could make civility a bad thing, haha. I only wanted you to address my comment fully. You then didn't respond to my next comment - at all - and called me a Nazi. I wasn't looking for a debate, I wanted to have a conversation and hear your viewpoint in a more fleshed out manner than a youtube comment or tweet. I'm not interested anymore!
Well written and its almost all true. But Israel is not a normal country. It is not a normal country for a lot of reasons but here are a few.
1. It is under relentless assault by its much larger neighbors, formerly the Arabs now the Mullah regime of Iran and its proxies.
2. It is the world's only Jewish majority state made up of history's most relentlessly persecuted people.
3. It is hated with a relentless obsession by the vast majority of the Islamic world.
4. It is of vital religious importance to millions of Christians in a way that no other country is or can be.
5. It is the relentless focus (and has been for many decades) of the world's leftists as an example extraordinaire of Western colonialism entirely falsely.
All the above is true and also true are the things you say about Israel and it's messy and wonderful complexity.
The first part of the essay where you focus on so called supporters of Israel who's willingness that Israel survive be contingent on its being what they want it to be could have been written to describe Thomas Friedman of the NY Times and his ilk. They are not supporters of Israel. They are fakers. Support and loyalty are not contingent. Nor is love. Lovers of Israel when critical do not do so in common cause with Israel's enemies. We do it internally. With each other.
Good writing and presentation. However, it misses the crux of the matter for me. The basis is spiritual. Here is where I stand.
A few thousand years ago God, for whatever reason, chose Abraham Isaac and Jacob and promised the land of Israel to them and their offspring with the implication that said real estate was precious to Him. But, there was the need to wait 400 years for them to take possession of that land because the “iniquity” of the current occupants was not yet complete i.e. it would require another 400 years for them to be hopelessly degraded and corrupted. Furthermore, they would spend most of those years as slaves in what turned out to be Egypt. Then God shepherded them out of slavery into the land of promise and assisted them to possess it. Then they(the Jews) in turn became corrupted and were in their turn expelled from the land of promise, but not without Gods declaration that He would recover them and again bring them back to this land as His people whose hearts were turned to Him.
We see this clearly in the Bible. The suffering of the Jews and their return to the land is plainly prophesied. The suffering isn’t over yet. Many of the indicators of the end of this age, which are also clearly prophesied in the holy writings, are “knocking at the door” eager to be manifested. Israel, “the land of Immanuel” is loved by God and therefore hated by Satan, the “prince of this world”, who is opposing God. This is the source of the anger of the governments of this earth toward Jews comprising the nation of Israel. The armies of the nations of the earth are being gathered together for their destruction by the returning Messiah leading the army of heaven.
The last few years have brought into the open the hatred of the governments of the earth for Jews and Christians.
So, as Joshua questioned the visitor to the camp of Israel as to whose “side” he was on and received the response that as captain of the hosts of God he had come — so where do I stand in the current situation? I stand with God who gave the land of Israel to the Jews and consider those who would overturn that as my enemies.
A most interesting prospective from a Christian theological perspective. I very much respect your views and concur with your conclusion. Thanks for writing.
I know what you mean Joshua, I've known a few "I used to be for Israel, but" people over the years. There was a noticeable change here in the UK back in the seventies which went from folk chanting "don't give in to Arab blackmail" in 1970 to voices expressing concern about "Israeli aggressions" soon after. There was a shift from viewing Israel as the underdog to seeing the newly invented Palestinian Arab people as worthy of that designation. Even more fair weather friends have come and gone as recently as 2009 and 2014 when the "but" became Gaza, and, I don't doubt the current war has produced similar results. Having said that, there are signs that October 7th has opened the eyes of some to the irrational hatred underpinning much of the anti-Israel discourse. Being a non-Jewish Zionist is a choice and it has lost me friends and sadly even relatives over the years. In my own modest way, I kind of hope I am the most annoying pro-Israel person I possibly can be, only, hopefully not in the eyes of the Jewish community.
Not sure you can rightly call it "discourse." It's just pure noise-hate that makes a spectacle of itself, congratulates itself for being so righteous, and then summarily collapses onto the floor and starts to chew on the rug.
Call it what you want, it exists. I try not to see things in black and white and look for grey areas, or nuance. Valid criticism of Israel exists alongside the detritus you have addressed, which I myself addressed with the words "the irrational hatred underpinning much of the anti-Israel discourse."
While I agree with the sentiments there is a more practical need - to distinguish between beliefs and actual behaviour...
You can believe what you want, but it is your actions that truly determine your "values". You can be pro-Israel but when you shrink away from e.g. denouncing an anti-Semitic slur your values aren't exactly worth all that much. A neutral who acts in support of liberal values is a better ally than a philo-semite who goes schtum when the road gets rough.
In my own mental progression toward being a supporter of Israel it wasn't the history nor ideology that swayed me but actions - any person who advocates for human rights and liberalism simply has no choice but to support the state that upholds these (imperfectly) versus an entity that explicitly rejects them.
Very good article. What I find extremely interesting is how many Jews instead of trying to understand what happening & challenging their knowledge aren’t interested in understanding international law but prefer to be swayed by the media which tends to be equally as ignorant. Then there are those who don’t understand Judaism as a belief system & the extreme left dislikes all religions & are equally unable to comprehend the complexities of a nation that’s both Sacred/Spiritual & Secular; they’re culturally so entangled & inseparable that both aspects are a vital part of what Israel stands for. I hope this makes sense. The differences are equal in importance & need to be acknowledged & given their due respect.
There are pro-Israel because there are anti-Israel who want this country dead. Without those anti-Israel, the pro-Israel would still love this country, and would also criticize it, its crazy administration, its too high taxes or other stuffs. However with the goal to improve it, not to destroy it.
There is another country that gets the pro anti treatment, of course, and that’s America. The term ‘anti-American’ is used often domestically to refer to specific attitudes and values that go against the American ethos, but it’s also used in reference to the whole country by non Americans. At least, that was my experience in Canada growing up where in the 1970s it was de rigeur to be anti American. I thought of myself as anti American, though I didn’t know really what the hell I meant by that. Just that it was a big bully or something. I don’t think I was challenging the legitimacy of the country or anything like that.
On the other hand, nowadays it’s very possible to meet people who are anti Canada. They wouldn’t use that language exactly, but they might refer to Canada as ‘so-called’ or put Canada in scare quotes. And they are indeed challenging the legitimacy of its existence. Most likely they would see themselves as championing indigenous rights against ‘settler colonialism’ You can know from that, of course, what their stance on Israel would be.
Canadian here. I remember the anti-American feeling—it was the fashion in some groups (not my group though).
Looking back, my theory is it was a period of Canada beginning to assert itself, Trudeau's impact, anti-war feeling, 'identity' debates, Can-con, the rise of Canlit etc. and one aspect being anti-Americanism. One of my friends was very pro-American and we used to get into long arguments. Today, I'd likely agree with him more than not.
An inimitable and classic piece of writing, Mr. Hoffman. I'm personally quite grateful to have read this marvelous essay on Thanksgiving Day in the U.S. Perhaps someone -- any one and every one -- in every Jewish neighborhood, temple, synagogue, shul, yeshiva, and the very pulpit itself should be required to read this expository every day of their lives.
The double standard Israel faces irritates me to no end. Yes I’m an American Democrat and my family voted for Harris. But the deference shown to American Palestinians really pisses me off. I know I’m living under fascism now. I’ll never see my hard earned Social Security or Medicare.
But I hope, with complete sincerity, that I never have to witness another Pro Hamas demonstration ever again on American soil. I love it that Rashida Tlaib is barking mad that she won’t get funding from the feds to support Muslim “charities” that support terrorism.
You are not living under fascism. Stop letting media undermine your mental wellbeing. Take Care.
That sounds fairly condescending. It’s almost as annoying as the Democrats who try to convince me that men can magically turn into women. I
I’m sorry Penny, I’m smarter than that. Americans have decided that they want to live under totalitarianism. Give The People what they want. Read about The Heritage Foundations’ Project 2025. I’ve been studying the Heritage Foundation for a decade. Republicans adopt every freaky conspiracy theory without question. But they don’t talk about Project 2025. Get ready for the future, because there’s no going back now.
Julia I agree it’s very difficult to know any real truths. Our governments lie to us, they lie to the media. We are left squabbling between ourselves.
I honestly believe the majority of people do not hate Jewish people. Most people simply want the killing to stop. The Palestinian people are outnumbered and outgunned, October 7th was a direct result of the futility of the situation they have been stuck in for decades.
The only people that can stop this now are the Israeli people themselves yet how can they do this when the hatred is so ingrained, so complete? Compassion and empathy is the only answer, this can be stopped I think.
I don’t want to fight with you, I don’t want to fight with anyone, yet I find the frustration of the situation driving me this way. Once again I apologise for attacking you.
I accept your apology without reservation Darryl. And It fills me with gratitude and respect for you on a personal level. Take good care of yourself. ☮️
I’m sorry Darryl, I mean that. I must seem like a horrible person. I’m not I promise. Sometimes it’s hard for me to know what the truth is. The US and Israel are all alone in the ME. And the US is in severe decline. This must end, for everyone involved. Yes, most importantly the precious children.
There’s nothing to be confused about when it comes to children being shot in the head. Don’t support it please. I apologise for the name calling.
Where do you find expressions of pro- Palestinian support without acknowledging the widespread endorsements of pro-Israel, (except Zionisim is left out due to its selfish supremacist behavior). ?
I have no patience for antisemitism. Especially from a group with super sensitive reactions to any critique of political Islam. It’s hypocritical and it’s ugly. If Palestinians care about their own lives, I would suggest they pay attention to their own military endeavors.
World circumstances are changing rapidly. I hope American pro Hamas elements don’t decide to ‘protest’ the trump admin. It won’t end well. Ok?
And the world has lost its patience for people like you.
You made your own bed, now enjoy it.
Ok.
“Amnesty International accused Israel of Genocide”.
What’s it like to be a modern day Nazi? 🤔
Loser
Those institutions are compromised. They, along with UN/UNRWA, do not apply their supposed values to all equally.
Brilliant. Made me examine this semantical perspective in a way I’ve overlooked. Another tool to disarm the horde of virtue signalers who typically know only what the legacy media feeds them.
Excellent! ❤️ Thank you!
Beautifully said!
Brilliant!
Thank you for this!!