“From the river to the sea” is not merely a slogan - it’s the Palestinian ethos. Palestinian nationalism is not about building a Palestinian state but destroying a Jewish one. This is why the Palestinians have walked away from every negotiation, why their maps erase Israel, why their schools preach jihad, why they build tunnels instead of an economy, why they pay the families of terrorists, why the Palestinians rejoiced on 10/7. October 7th didn’t happen because the Palestinians didn’t have a state; it happened because they did.
Agree. Until there is a caliphate replacing what is Israel, there will be no peace. This is really what they want. Reprogramming Palestinians and their children will take years and even then there is no guarantee. PA and Hamas leaders might want to be included in the reprogramming.
And how about the announced alliance between the Turks, Pakistan and the Saudi government. Quick on the heels of the announcement comes some gack from the Paki’s about the bs that Israel must be eliminated. A few weeks ago I seem to recall the Muslim Brotherhood affiliated leader of Turkey talking about conquering yerushaliam.
If and I do mean If Turkey conquers yerushaliam, they will be heading for Mecca and Medina. That gives them control of the 3 holy cities and the Caliphate, just as the Ottoman Empire once held.
As a bonus, I believe they will take control of the Suez canal as well.
Eventually the PA will become less corrupt, and the Arabs of Judea and Samaria will be given more albeit Limited Autonomy, and full voting rights to the PA. They govern themselves and their own affairs at present anyway, and this will continue. But they will not be given the right to an army, nor external borders to smuggle Heavy weapons across. The war against Hamas and The Muslim Brotherhood, whose Charter demands worldwide Islam and the Caliphate, will continue as it does in and by The West because of this fact. This is the Global and Local reality. The Malthusian struggle for living space is eternal. So get used to this fact.
Reductive arguments won’t change anything . It's like saying
“Forest fires are caused by oxygen, period.” Demonstrably true. Unhelpful. (Actually, considering 21% of the atmosphere is Oxygen, and almost 26% of the world is Islamic, that’s not far off).
Wouldn’t it be better to distinguish peaceful Islam (and if there were no such thing, with 2 billion Muslims, the world would be done by tonight) from Jihadist, and try to suss out what leads folks from one side to the other?
We know that, but try telling that to President Trump and others we could think off. Sadly these people appear to have gone deaf on this whole subject, since they keep trying to make deals and peace treaties that are beyond detrimentally, unequivocally dangerous to the entire world, not just Israel.
Trump needs someone to teach him the real truth more clearly and loudly though that's the problem. I know you're trying to tell him but his so called aids are useless and now the one who could have helped has sadly passed. Send in Ted Cruse
You right like a typical anti-Jewish leftist. I am quite familiar with the whole monologue as I have a cousin married to someone like you. Trump is not in this for the money. Trump has done some things I object, but that does not change the fact that he has done more for Israel than any other US President.
You right like a typical anti-Jewish leftist. I am quite familiar with the whole monologue as I have a cousin married to someone like you. Trump is not in this for the money. Trump has done some things I object, but that does not change the fact that he has done more for Israel than any other US President.
As a rule, I do not bother looking at profiles. I did look at yours, and I see where I may have made a error with that label, that is a maybe, but I will decide later.
It could be that your Hate and Hard Left attitude has killed off too many of your brain cells. Trump is not in this for the money.
No he is not. But that doesn't mean he is capable of carrying this war with Iran and its proxies to a succesful conclusion. In fact he is almost certainly not.
It is a bit hasty for that broad of a conclusion. A successful conclusion is their absolute destruction Israel unchained can eliminate Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, the Palestine Authority and more. That leaves the Houthi, He just needs bigger bombs on the Mad Mollos and their minions.
You are right. So Israel has to eliminate the Palestinian threat once and for all. Just as Jews in the diaspora have to arm themselves and turn the hate back on their enemies.
The Gaza expulsion of Jews from their historical ancestral homeland was another folly of the Israeli political leadership emanating from the Oslo Disaster.
While true, it also proves the falsity of everything the Moslems say. Gaza was given to the Moslems in 2007. Gaza was the same size in 1948 as it was on October 7, 2023, there was nothing occupied. Hamas is in revolt against the recognized government, the PA and as such Hamas has no legal right to exist. Israel needs to remain in position until Hamas disarms and disbands.
“The problem is, Israel is not the problem. The root of this conflict is the Palestinian and larger Arab and Muslim unwillingness to abide the presence of self-determined Jewish people in the indigenous homeland of the Jews. That’s it. That’s the problem. And as long as we blame everything except the real cause of the problem, we will never reach a resolution.
Palestinian violence is the reason for the “occupation,” not the other way around.
When Palestinians agree to live in peace, there will be a Palestinian state. It actually is this simple.”
That is not entirely true. This war is because the Palestinians who are not even Palestinians, are waging a ideological religious war, and they have no intention of living in peace with Israel, it's people, not ever or any other country if we are completely honest at all. There will never ever be a Palestinian State, not ever.
There are similar occupations in that the bulk of Spain, Portugal, and about 1/5 of France is occupied territory. The same goes for Greece through the Balkans north to Vienna, but not including Vienna. Also, included are the islands of the Mediterranean Sea. Any land taken during a Jihad is Islamic land forever, even if they do not control it. It is occupied territory, the same as Israel.
There is no people in the world less ready for and less entitled to a state. Everyone knows it will instantly be a failed terror haven which will exist to make war on Israel. The whole idea of it is insane.
Radical Islam came home for me on 9/11, when downtown Manhattan (where I live and had my business) was closed until further notice. Since then Iraq went down badly, the Taliban rule in
Afghanistan, the Houthis in Yemen, Hamas in Gaza, and Hezbollah keeps Lebanon as a more or less failed state. And yet Israel has not rid anyone of these threats, most of which emanate from or are backed by Iran, with whom the US is presently at war and which we appear to be losing. So yes, the Palestinians seem incapable of proper self governance, iIsrael has become a pariah state involved in its own forever war (which it has not won), and the Democrats at home are electing 'progressive' Muslims to key offices while the Republicans' innate antisemitism grows. That both countries -Israel and the US - need better leaders, is clear now, although neither needs new leadership as badly as Palestine, as this article explains so well.
Gaza was completely abandoned by Israel in 2005. It was a turn-key country, just do it. Instead we got an Iranian military base that was used for murder and depraved sex crimes against Jews. The two-state solution was tried and it failed.
The Palestinians want their own state. It just so happens to be exactly where Israel currently is. And they only want 1 state, not 2.
It's really quite simple. It's the reason that they have refused any/every 2 state proposal from even before the official 1948 partition of the land. And it's the reason they will, unfortunately, refuse every future offer, until they have been beaten in combat badly enough to be unable, actually unable, to carry on with their fight.
How that happens, I have no idea. I just hope it does happen, some time soon. And I hope it happens with Israel and it's people, and it's neighbours, still able to enjoy the peace that comes after that.
"Palestinian politics has never fully resolved the contradiction between building “Palestine” and undoing Israel."
It never intended to. In keeping with its politco-religious system of belief and practice, the goal is the reestablishment of the caliphate in the name of Islam for the Ummah. Even a cursory reading of the charters of the PA, Hamas, Hezbollah, and Palestine Islamic Jihad explicitly state this is their endgame.
Two states, a Jewish and Muslim Arab "Palestinian" already exists in the region: Israel and Jordan. Only that having already experienced what it means to turn itself into a pure "Palestinian" state in the 1960s, Jordan will be loathe to repeat that disaster. And who can blame them. These people have been a social and political disruptive force destabilizing in
every society, every country that have entered, whether in the Middle East, Europe, or the Americas. They bring their chaos with them wherever they go.
“there was no occupation of the West Bank by Israel in 1947. There were no Israeli settlements in the West Bank. There was no Israeli control of Gaza. Yet partition was still unacceptable.”
Because there was no West Bank. Jordan christened it with that name in 1950 to obliterate any Jewish connection to the area. Until then it was known for millennia as Judea and Samaria. Sadly, many Jews are buying into that erasure, oblivious to the fact that when you describe yourself the way your enemy describes you, you lose the battle.
“The international community has spent decades asking: What must Israel give the Palestinians so that peace becomes possible? “
The answer is simple and straightforward: a Judenrein, effaced Israel.
To end the conflict “Palestinians would have to accept . . . The Jewish state is permanent.
Not until the next war. Not until the next generation."
Ah, but the Treaty of al-Hudaybiya set the precedent that such agreements may be broken when has grown sufficiently strong enough to overthrow the khufars.
"For decades, the two-state solution has been marketed as though the Israeli-Palestinian conflict were fundamentally a real-estate dispute. "
It is a regious dispute masquerading as a real-estate dispute just as Islam is a ruthless organized crime syndicate with zero morality masquerading as a relgion.
Without detracting from the author’s obviously correct point that the Palestinians need to radically change their view of Israel, as always I’m left wondering how, even once that (hopefully) happens, Israel’s ongoing land grab and greenlighting of settler violence in the WB is supposed to help get us to peace someday.
“From the river to the sea” is not merely a slogan - it’s the Palestinian ethos. Palestinian nationalism is not about building a Palestinian state but destroying a Jewish one. This is why the Palestinians have walked away from every negotiation, why their maps erase Israel, why their schools preach jihad, why they build tunnels instead of an economy, why they pay the families of terrorists, why the Palestinians rejoiced on 10/7. October 7th didn’t happen because the Palestinians didn’t have a state; it happened because they did.
Exactly…. Oct 7 demonstrated exactly what the Palestine Arabs always do when given their own state, means and opportunity.
Spot on Danny. There is no living in peace with those people...never. Get them off Israel's land.
Agree. Until there is a caliphate replacing what is Israel, there will be no peace. This is really what they want. Reprogramming Palestinians and their children will take years and even then there is no guarantee. PA and Hamas leaders might want to be included in the reprogramming.
I would say the bulk of the programming is done by the Imam of the local mosque.
The reason there can't be any so-called "two state solution" is Islam, period.
And how about the announced alliance between the Turks, Pakistan and the Saudi government. Quick on the heels of the announcement comes some gack from the Paki’s about the bs that Israel must be eliminated. A few weeks ago I seem to recall the Muslim Brotherhood affiliated leader of Turkey talking about conquering yerushaliam.
If and I do mean If Turkey conquers yerushaliam, they will be heading for Mecca and Medina. That gives them control of the 3 holy cities and the Caliphate, just as the Ottoman Empire once held.
As a bonus, I believe they will take control of the Suez canal as well.
Eventually the PA will become less corrupt, and the Arabs of Judea and Samaria will be given more albeit Limited Autonomy, and full voting rights to the PA. They govern themselves and their own affairs at present anyway, and this will continue. But they will not be given the right to an army, nor external borders to smuggle Heavy weapons across. The war against Hamas and The Muslim Brotherhood, whose Charter demands worldwide Islam and the Caliphate, will continue as it does in and by The West because of this fact. This is the Global and Local reality. The Malthusian struggle for living space is eternal. So get used to this fact.
Reductive arguments won’t change anything . It's like saying
“Forest fires are caused by oxygen, period.” Demonstrably true. Unhelpful. (Actually, considering 21% of the atmosphere is Oxygen, and almost 26% of the world is Islamic, that’s not far off).
Wouldn’t it be better to distinguish peaceful Islam (and if there were no such thing, with 2 billion Muslims, the world would be done by tonight) from Jihadist, and try to suss out what leads folks from one side to the other?
We know that, but try telling that to President Trump and others we could think off. Sadly these people appear to have gone deaf on this whole subject, since they keep trying to make deals and peace treaties that are beyond detrimentally, unequivocally dangerous to the entire world, not just Israel.
I and other Americans are telling him.
Trump needs someone to teach him the real truth more clearly and loudly though that's the problem. I know you're trying to tell him but his so called aids are useless and now the one who could have helped has sadly passed. Send in Ted Cruse
Trump is not capable of "learning" anything at this point.
Trump's only interested in his own wealth and glory. He's betrayed Israel before and he will do so again.
On that I don't agree
Chaya Iliza Siobhan Cartwright
You right like a typical anti-Jewish leftist. I am quite familiar with the whole monologue as I have a cousin married to someone like you. Trump is not in this for the money. Trump has done some things I object, but that does not change the fact that he has done more for Israel than any other US President.
You right like a typical anti-Jewish leftist. I am quite familiar with the whole monologue as I have a cousin married to someone like you. Trump is not in this for the money. Trump has done some things I object, but that does not change the fact that he has done more for Israel than any other US President.
You clearly know nothing about me. I am centre left, but I'm very pro-Israel, as you'd notice if you looked at my profile the things I've restacked.
As a rule, I do not bother looking at profiles. I did look at yours, and I see where I may have made a error with that label, that is a maybe, but I will decide later.
It could be that your Hate and Hard Left attitude has killed off too many of your brain cells. Trump is not in this for the money.
No he is not. But that doesn't mean he is capable of carrying this war with Iran and its proxies to a succesful conclusion. In fact he is almost certainly not.
It is a bit hasty for that broad of a conclusion. A successful conclusion is their absolute destruction Israel unchained can eliminate Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, the Palestine Authority and more. That leaves the Houthi, He just needs bigger bombs on the Mad Mollos and their minions.
Lol lol I can't be anti Jew and two, I'm not a leftist either. So try not to be so presumptuous
My comment was meant Chaya Iliza Siobhan Cartwright, I replied to her, but I missed the fact her name does not show up in my reply.
I may have just corrected it.
Lol OK no worries xx
You are right. So Israel has to eliminate the Palestinian threat once and for all. Just as Jews in the diaspora have to arm themselves and turn the hate back on their enemies.
The Gaza expulsion of Jews from their historical ancestral homeland was another folly of the Israeli political leadership emanating from the Oslo Disaster.
While true, it also proves the falsity of everything the Moslems say. Gaza was given to the Moslems in 2007. Gaza was the same size in 1948 as it was on October 7, 2023, there was nothing occupied. Hamas is in revolt against the recognized government, the PA and as such Hamas has no legal right to exist. Israel needs to remain in position until Hamas disarms and disbands.
Pat Johnson, substack:
“The problem is, Israel is not the problem. The root of this conflict is the Palestinian and larger Arab and Muslim unwillingness to abide the presence of self-determined Jewish people in the indigenous homeland of the Jews. That’s it. That’s the problem. And as long as we blame everything except the real cause of the problem, we will never reach a resolution.
Palestinian violence is the reason for the “occupation,” not the other way around.
When Palestinians agree to live in peace, there will be a Palestinian state. It actually is this simple.”
That is not entirely true. This war is because the Palestinians who are not even Palestinians, are waging a ideological religious war, and they have no intention of living in peace with Israel, it's people, not ever or any other country if we are completely honest at all. There will never ever be a Palestinian State, not ever.
There is no occupation.
There are similar occupations in that the bulk of Spain, Portugal, and about 1/5 of France is occupied territory. The same goes for Greece through the Balkans north to Vienna, but not including Vienna. Also, included are the islands of the Mediterranean Sea. Any land taken during a Jihad is Islamic land forever, even if they do not control it. It is occupied territory, the same as Israel.
The “two state solution” was always going to be a one state FINAL solution.
There is no people in the world less ready for and less entitled to a state. Everyone knows it will instantly be a failed terror haven which will exist to make war on Israel. The whole idea of it is insane.
Radical Islam came home for me on 9/11, when downtown Manhattan (where I live and had my business) was closed until further notice. Since then Iraq went down badly, the Taliban rule in
Afghanistan, the Houthis in Yemen, Hamas in Gaza, and Hezbollah keeps Lebanon as a more or less failed state. And yet Israel has not rid anyone of these threats, most of which emanate from or are backed by Iran, with whom the US is presently at war and which we appear to be losing. So yes, the Palestinians seem incapable of proper self governance, iIsrael has become a pariah state involved in its own forever war (which it has not won), and the Democrats at home are electing 'progressive' Muslims to key offices while the Republicans' innate antisemitism grows. That both countries -Israel and the US - need better leaders, is clear now, although neither needs new leadership as badly as Palestine, as this article explains so well.
You’re wasting your time even discussing this. It’s not going to happen
Gaza was completely abandoned by Israel in 2005. It was a turn-key country, just do it. Instead we got an Iranian military base that was used for murder and depraved sex crimes against Jews. The two-state solution was tried and it failed.
The Palestinians want their own state. It just so happens to be exactly where Israel currently is. And they only want 1 state, not 2.
It's really quite simple. It's the reason that they have refused any/every 2 state proposal from even before the official 1948 partition of the land. And it's the reason they will, unfortunately, refuse every future offer, until they have been beaten in combat badly enough to be unable, actually unable, to carry on with their fight.
How that happens, I have no idea. I just hope it does happen, some time soon. And I hope it happens with Israel and it's people, and it's neighbours, still able to enjoy the peace that comes after that.
The “Palestinians” already have a state. It’s Jordan.
"Palestinian politics has never fully resolved the contradiction between building “Palestine” and undoing Israel."
It never intended to. In keeping with its politco-religious system of belief and practice, the goal is the reestablishment of the caliphate in the name of Islam for the Ummah. Even a cursory reading of the charters of the PA, Hamas, Hezbollah, and Palestine Islamic Jihad explicitly state this is their endgame.
Two states, a Jewish and Muslim Arab "Palestinian" already exists in the region: Israel and Jordan. Only that having already experienced what it means to turn itself into a pure "Palestinian" state in the 1960s, Jordan will be loathe to repeat that disaster. And who can blame them. These people have been a social and political disruptive force destabilizing in
every society, every country that have entered, whether in the Middle East, Europe, or the Americas. They bring their chaos with them wherever they go.
“there was no occupation of the West Bank by Israel in 1947. There were no Israeli settlements in the West Bank. There was no Israeli control of Gaza. Yet partition was still unacceptable.”
Because there was no West Bank. Jordan christened it with that name in 1950 to obliterate any Jewish connection to the area. Until then it was known for millennia as Judea and Samaria. Sadly, many Jews are buying into that erasure, oblivious to the fact that when you describe yourself the way your enemy describes you, you lose the battle.
“The international community has spent decades asking: What must Israel give the Palestinians so that peace becomes possible? “
The answer is simple and straightforward: a Judenrein, effaced Israel.
To end the conflict “Palestinians would have to accept . . . The Jewish state is permanent.
Not until the next war. Not until the next generation."
Ah, but the Treaty of al-Hudaybiya set the precedent that such agreements may be broken when has grown sufficiently strong enough to overthrow the khufars.
"For decades, the two-state solution has been marketed as though the Israeli-Palestinian conflict were fundamentally a real-estate dispute. "
It is a regious dispute masquerading as a real-estate dispute just as Islam is a ruthless organized crime syndicate with zero morality masquerading as a relgion.
Without detracting from the author’s obviously correct point that the Palestinians need to radically change their view of Israel, as always I’m left wondering how, even once that (hopefully) happens, Israel’s ongoing land grab and greenlighting of settler violence in the WB is supposed to help get us to peace someday.