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Susan Sullivan's avatar

What a brilliant piece this is! Not just Germany but most Western cultures are the same. It is terrifying. They are so stupid and bringing doom on all of us.

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Debkin's avatar

How do you integrate people without work. Germany’s migrant population has five times the unemployment rate. Among long term unemployed the number of migrants by percentage is extremely high. What’s the game plan? Radicalism can fester in this model bc it breeds resentment and entitlement. The other avenue of radicalization are some mosques. Having more than one unassimilated generation is a societal problem.

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Debkin's avatar

So you think not working is a good thing? I’m not getting your point. You don’t think there’s an assimilation problem in Europe? Do you think immigrants should assimilate to some extent? Do you think mass migration impairs assimilation because it’s too fast? You’re making left field comments that have nothing to do with the article or what I said.

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Leslie Benjamini #🟦's avatar

I think you missed the point, immigrants should assimilate otherwise what was the point of leaving their home country? Yes it’s was too fast. Not to mention the fact that Muslims are never going to assimilate, that is not their end point. Germans murdered a peaceful people who were productive & replaced them with people who are going to end their culture. Not a great swap that I can see.

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Stephen Korn's avatar

Same thing can be said about our Dearborn, MI “friends” right here in the US!

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Robin Alexander's avatar

Not only that, those peaceful people took great pride in being "Germans." We all know that you can assimilate and still have your own cultural twists re food, worship, etc.Immigrants are like adding spice to a stew. But the stew is the predominant thing, by definition. It must always remain so.

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tzipporah batami's avatar

THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE IN THE WORLD WHO DONT WORK AND ARE IMPOVERISHED, YET THEY HAVE MORAL CERTITUDE THEY WOULD LAY DOWN THEIR LIVES FOR. THERE WAS A TIME WHERE MUSLIMS SAVED PEOPLE IN THE HOLOCAUST, MAYBE IT WOULD HELP YOU TO READ IT, START WITH YAD VASHEM RIGHTEOUS AMONG THE NATIONS

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Debkin's avatar

If you are not having babies you’ll need immigrants. But much of the issue is quantity lopsided immigration and screening. Why would you want immigrants with deeply antithetical values to the host country who don’t even want to live and let live while they do their thing. Take America. Most immigrants even illegal ones to a certain time were generally not tainted by criminals. But you open borders by not enforcing any standard of border control encouraging lawbreaking through institutions and you have gang dominated countries that are falling apart (eg Venezuela) what do you think will happen. I’m sad that religious and moderate Muslims aren’t speaking out way more for plurality and tolerance I suspect mosques are dominated by radicals. A certain worldview a purity test prevails. Now you have atheists Christians non practicing who leave to escape to a society with freer values but the problem is anti semitism is rampant in the Mideast. It’s being imported all over the west and welcomed by citizens with an anti western bent. I think countries can benefit from a lot of diversity but not rapidly not without some conditions and not without work which is typically the greatest integrator.

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Robin Alexander's avatar

Yes, immigration should be done slowly and deliberately, with an eye to what skill sets are needed. In addition, certain cultural requirements should be prevail. For example, you can't drive or get a passport, fly, etc. if you can't expose and take a picture of your full face. The only law that should prevail is the law of the land, and not sharia law.

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Wahl's avatar

Indeed a brilliant piece. The only disagreement I have with it is the following: the war of radical Islam against the West has been spreading for decades not only in Germany but also in France, in Britain and in Belgium. Belgium is already an Islamic state, Britain will be the second and France seems at last to be waking up.

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Wahl's avatar

Yes

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Robin Alexander's avatar

This is the most depressing idea imaginable. The West needs to wake up and realize that it is far superior to radical Islam. My opinion, but we have to take a side and I have no problem siding with the West. Sure we did "bad" things in the past. We acknowledge and we move on, doing better. It's not that difficult. What is this lure of self-flagellation? I don't get it. People / cultures "make mistakes".

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Wahl's avatar

But broadly speaking there is little doubt for me that Western civilizations have produced the concerns about human rights, freedom for all, tolerance of the other , a great culture. And what did Islam produce? There is just no comparaison .

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Wahl's avatar

You have to understand that it is all propaganda. Reality does not interest those who spread propaganda. You can tell them facts , until tomorrow. Totally useless. This Muslim Brothers war agaîst the West fabricates lies and they use our freedom of expression to spread those lies. This is a war of information.

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Robin Alexander's avatar

Thanks for the reply. But if their side is all propaganda and lies, which it is, then we need to use more than just information. A declaration out loud and in writing should be required of all citizens, including Muslims. All criminal acts by non-citizens should result in deportation. I'm sure I'm missing a bunch of things that can be done to undermine their agenda. "Hate speech" should not be tolerated. The problem is, I think, that the West has to come out of its complacency, and self-flagellation, and be intent on undermining the intolerance of this group; the group itself.

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Albert Koeman's avatar

"Belgium is already an Islamic state": that's a bold statement without any merit or proof. The current Belgian prime minister, mr. Bart de Wever, is a Flemish nationalist.

The percentage of muslims in Belgium is 7 % - not in a position to control the country.

This kind of nonsense discredits "Future of Jewish".

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Wahl's avatar

I have so many examples in Wallonie. but my time is too scarce

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Albert Koeman's avatar

Isn't saving Belgium worth the effort?

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Wahl's avatar

It is , but it is up to the Belgium people to bring to power determined and couzgeous people….

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Steve S's avatar

After WWII there was a certain amount of guilt, maybe even shame, among the European nations either allowing or not preventing, in a way encouraging, the genocide waged against the Jews of Europe. Outwardly showing anti-semitism was frowned upon but it remained, so the nations of Europe decided to import their Jew haters from Africa and the Arab nations, who could act openly and without shame continue Jew hatred in Europe. Now they are dealing with the consequences.

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Albert Koeman's avatar

In Germany, criticism of Israel is still soon considered to be anti- semitism, immigration of muslims (6.5 % of the population, a slim minority) didnot alter that.

Furthermore, I am afraid Maral Salmassi didn't quite get what a German citizen motivates. Indeed, it's not his country, the Bundesrepublik Deutschland.

A citizen of Bavaria for example is in the first place a Bavarian, not a German.

Germany was a patchwork of States untill 1870, so a true nationalist feeling did hardly exist and of course, the nazis have done everything in theit power to make any nationalism suspect. That's why Germans mostly are avid Europeans who prefer 'Ode an die Freude' above the 'Deutschlandlied'.

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Robin Alexander's avatar

Wow! I have not heard that theory. Brilliant.

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Simon Lucas's avatar

This is beautifully written, and I find myself in agreement with many—if not all—of the central claims. Still, I would want to carefully hedge some of the nuances, which I feel may at times be obscured by the elegance and, occasionally, the rhetorical force of the language. The development of post-war German national identity is portrayed as a linear trajectory—from Auschwitz to a kind of national self-flagellation. But in my view, this framing oversimplifies what has in fact been a more complex and multi-phased evolution.

Initially, the post-war years were indeed marked by a confrontation with the Nazi past, characterized by collective guilt, responsibility, and a vow of non-repetition. Yet, the reunification of the 1990s complicated this narrative, as two divergent political cultures with distinct historical memories endeavored to forge a tentative, often uneasy, shared identity. The late 2000s, symbolized by the 2006 World Cup's celebratory embrace of national symbols, seemed to usher in a more open, pluralistic pride, though this fragile consensus was soon destabilized by the 2015 refugee crisis and renewed cultural anxieties over belonging. Consequently, the prevailing national self-reproach should not be regarded as an inevitable or singular endpoint rooted in a fixed German ethos of identity, but rather as a contingent and multifaceted outcome emerging from ongoing, dynamic tensions within Germany's complex identity discourse—tensions continuously shaped and reshaped by broader global political developments.

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Henry Tobias's avatar

German guilt of the Holocaust resulted in a clause in the German constitution giving ALL refugees asylum in Germany. Hence Angela Merkel gave asylum to ONE MILLION Syrian refugees, most of whom are unlikely to integrate and will pose a threat to German democracy in the future.

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Charles Knapp's avatar

Another example of what you describe so insightfully may be found in the stunning lack of self-awareness of those Western thought leader (and their acolytes) who assert that it is the Jews who took “the wrong lesson” from the Holocaust. The claim is often made to support an ahistorical narrative of the Arab-Israeli conflict and/or an ill-informed (if not malevolent) critique of Zionism.

What seems to bother these “supra-nationalists” the most is the pride Israelis have in their nation state and the confidence they exude in their identity - reflected, in part, in their birthrate which is a rarity in the West as it exceeds replacement.

The lesson the Jews took from the Holocaust, one which has been more than vindicated over time, is that no one will fight for them and so it’s up to them to protect themselves. In effect, it’s a combination of the insights of Herzl, Ben-Gurion and Jabotinsky.

In post-WWII Europe, the inhabitants are still dealing with the guilt and incomprehension not so much of the Holocaust itself but of the continent’s cultural suicide between 1914-45. As an American, I find it very difficult to put myself in the mindset of one who must confront the catastrophic failure of a social system that held itself out to be the best way forward, intellectually, materially and spiritually. True, the decline of the U.S. is an historical inevitability, nothing lasts forever, but we are not there yet, so I can’t know what it feels like beyond intellectual speculation. The Europeans know.

And so the European elite’s reset is, for the most part, as you describe. The fault is ascribed to nationalism and the remedy is supranationalism.

There is an irony to all this in the need for the “Other”, because Europe now imagines two “Others”. The first is, as you mention, Islam and its Ummah, a supranational entity par excellence that, in one telling, got imperialism “right”. Weirdly it has become a sort of model to aspire to … so long as you don’t look too carefully at the details. National identities dissolve into the one “brotherhood of Man” and that seems the new way forward.

The second “Other” is the West’s traditional and always negative standby, the Jews. They stubbornly remind everyone of the value of identity and of the great things that can be achieved by leveraging your particularity for the greater good of the wider world - though it’s that last bit that is often overlooked by those who value conformity and quiet.

Historically, one might say that the Jews have served, unwittingly, as the great falsifiers (in the Karl Popper scientific sense) of every grand scheme of universalism, whether its Christian or Islamic supercessionism, Capitalism or Communism, to name the most obvious.

Maybe it’s the messiness inherent in a discourse that constantly questions, that is never satisfied with any particular answer and that is constantly seeking that so many find so off-putting and unsettling.

In trying to cope with a chaotic world and an impossible to control human nature, humans seek eternal truths and the predictability that comes from such things. The Islamic “Other” promises exactly that.

The Jews, as they say, not so much. And we all know the human preference in dealing with unwanted messages … and so it has been with the Jews, and yet, they are still around. Perhaps there’s a lesson worth learning from the Jewish experience after all.

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Saul's avatar

A superbly insightful piece. Perhaps it takes an outsider to write with such clarity and honesty? While I try to avoid making generalisations based on nationality, there seems to be a kind of absolutism within the German psyche that renders it unusually susceptible to extremism. It’s more than understandable that for the post WW2 generations any display of nationalism, no matter how mild would be verboten, but pacifism is another kind of extremism. It’s as if Germans could not trust themselves to reign in their baser instincts so they decided to escape from such internal conflict by adopting the extreme ideology of pacifism. Now, three generations later, Germany has to look in the mirror once more (there surely must be a multi-syllable term for such a phenomenon).

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Wahl's avatar

Actually it has already spread all over the Western countries.

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Heddy Breuer Abramowitz's avatar

You wrote: "Tolerance without reciprocity leads to submission instead of harmony..." Indeed, Jihadist Islam, indeed the very word Islam, means submission.

With no intention to trivialize the issues, I am not the only one who viewed the voting Saturday night's Eurovision as a sort of informal but highly accurate poll revealing the state of world opinion on the state of nationalism. In the popular vote, despite considerable obstacles, our Israeli contestant Yuval Raphael literally rocked it to first place. Ironically coming in 2d after Austria once the official panels weighed in - who are heavily political.

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Ezekiel Detroit's avatar

It's more of a twitch than a swing. Trade the swastika for a shmata and you're there.

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tzipporah batami's avatar

THERE IS NO SWING. THE AMALEKITES THAT WERE LEFT OVER WERE PRESENT AMONG NAZISM AND ARE WORSHIPPED AMONG RADICAL ISLAM

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Robin Alexander's avatar

One more thought: "These movements stripped away the comforting rituals of Catholicism, leaving individuals alone with their guilt — anxious, morally isolated, and primed to seek relief in authority." Seems to me Catholicism is also known for its guilt-inducing tendencies, and then there's self-flagellation, also a Catholic invention. So so comforting all the time.

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Robin Alexander's avatar

This is so well written and so needed. It explains so much. Great to hear that the younger generation is starting to realize the danger. I hope that this is so.

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Daisy Moses Chief Crackpot's avatar

So spot-on.... an' tragic in a way... Methinks it's that the Germans couldn't stand the shame/emBareAssMint!, horror of the crimes that putta black mark on their "noble" legacy so they chucked it all an' became known fer their "ruthless empathy".... ruthless becuz completely self-destructive an' none were spared...ironically, includin' "da joos."

Back in the late 80's/90's I schpent time livin' in Berlin (an' doin' a bit've travel throughout Germany) cuz I loved so much 'bout the "kulcha"--the iconoclasts! Klaus Nomi! Nina Hagen! Kraftwerk, Robert Gorl.... not ta mention Wim Wenders, Fassbinder, Ulrike Ottinger, Volker Schlöndorff... Joseph Beuys, Jörg Immendorff, an' the legacy "meister" ahrtists.... Dürer, Friedrich.... in moosic Strauss, Felix Mendelssohn (a chew!), Beethoven, Wagner (oy...but yup, I'mma fan), Mahler.. Brecht, Weill (chewish!), Beckman ('nther chew!), Ernst, Klee, Grosz, Hartfield, Dix, an' of course the great filmmakers Fritz Lang, Billy Wilder, Murnau, Wiene (all joos I think?).... I'm missin' many but if Germany embraced all it's briliant scions an' just owned the stain on their hist'try under Hitler (who declared some of the best ahrt degenerate while he himself wuz involved in all sorta occult an' perverse doin's with da boyz he wuz groomin' fer Ayran InventedGermanViking "StarDumb")... then like many naytions that have their points of both pride & shame, Germany would'a kept their pride an' their once-breathtakin' "kulcha" an' would not have turned inta the sorry-ass lame-land filled with destructive "radi-CULLS" that have ZERO appreciation for all that wuz once German...an' fine & "gut."

Maral, you've laid out the twisted psychosis of the land....hat's off ta ya. I just don't see how Germans have no IDEAR (I-Dear, literally!) of what they should cherish... (an' shoot, I near-fergot ta list all the authors too... Doblin, Hesse, Nietzsche, Goethe...) DANG that's some legacy! Talk 'bout visibly overcompensatin' with self erasure while retainin' an angry bitterness... an' still hatin' us joos....! (never "vill" understand it fully...)

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Doug Israel's avatar

The common people of Germany and other European countries are not going to willingly subjugate themselves to Islam. They WILL revolt. And it will be violent as Europe always is and what replaces the current failed system will not be liberal Democracy.

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