Me too: "But somewhere along the way, we began confusing the Jewish tradition of disagreement with the Jewish habit of being disagreeable." I said to myself "them's fightin' words!" I had a running tally in my head. The count was 3 and 2, and then she hit it out of the ballpark.
The Hews: The zionist answer to the Houtis. Seriously, though, you are right. There is a time for sonnets and there is a time for bullets. Now is the time for bullets.
I have heard from more than one Jew-hater that the Talmud is a wicked book against Christians. It's been used for hundreds of years in this way to justify pogroms. However, having studied religious commentaries, I know that it's dialogical.
The Talmud is not a rigid list of rules or a single manifesto; that part of it called the Gemara records centuries of continuous, spirited academic and legal debate. If you cherry-pick an egregious passage to represent the whole, it's misleading. This is done by atheists with the Bible all the time, picking violent passages and ignoring historical and theological context. One can misrepresent almost any text in this way.
Cherry-picking verses is also used by some 'replacement theology' Christians as well to misrepresent Jesus as being anti-Jewish when, in fact, his teachings are grounded in Judaism. For example, the 19th-century "Talmud Unmasked" falsely claims that Judaism teaches hatred of Christians. Jesus was a Jewish rabbi who taught from the Hebrew Scriptures and engaged in the same types of debates that were common among rabbis of his time (such as the debates between the Houses of Hillel and Shammai). Christianity originated as a sect of Second Temple Judaism.
Adversarial debate is also how the Western legal and parliamentary systems are structured. Rather than enforce a rigid dogma, issues are understood to be complex and in need of spirited debate to examine them, to get to the truth of the matter. The West inherited its systems of critical thinking from two ancient sources: the Socratic method (where a question is examined from all angles) and Jewish tradition (where rabbis analyze and debate the law to understand its nuances). It has provided the foundations for the best traditions of modern civilization. In Western law, a judge and jury arrive at the truth by listening to spirited, adversarial debate between two opposing sides.
Western society accepts that complex issues require rigorous examination rather than a single, unquestionable dictate. Islamic theocracies and Communist dictatorships employ rigid dictates. Societies that lack dialogue and debate become oppressive and narrow-minded. Western Europe is going down that path, unfortunately, by engaging in censorship.
Freedom of speech is necessary to allow the nuances of issues to be examined. A society's health depends on its willingness to allow diverse views and spirited debate. The ability to argue an issue from multiple angles without fear of persecution is a cornerstone of a free and thriving civilization. We owe this to the Jewish tradition of debate. What I also appreciate about such debate is the use of Jewish humor. A relevant example:
Two neighbors were having a fierce argument and decided to go to the village rabbi to settle their dispute. The first neighor presented his side of the case with great passion. The rabbi listened carefully, nodded, and said, "You know, you are right." The second neighbour, outraged, stepped forward and argued the exact opposite side with equal passion. The rabbi listened carefully, nodded, and said, "You know, you are right."The Rabbi's Wife: She was sitting in the corner and could not believe her ears. She said, "Husband, how can you tell them they are both right? Their arguments completely contradict each other!"The Rabbi: He looked at his wife, thought for a moment, and said, "You know, you are also right."
Love of ISRAEL is the refuah where we are one light.
On this all agree who bear and have throughout the ages born witness. On this love of G-D all are predestined to agree.
Without JEWISH light utter chaos and darkness will
overtake all the living.
It is imperative to shed all fear stand in support of her, united by this G-D given virtue at all times, in all places, as true defenders of HIS children in concert, in unison devoid of any fracuture on this ine point -
as one people healing from centuries of rising up, awakening.
✍🏻RL in the mikveh of tears as I bear witness. May the mourners on the battlefield upholding our
lives, truly fighting for our land, rights know by deeds done throughout the diaspora are not alone, and shall never be abandoned.
These are great insights. While reading this, I kept thinking of Rabbi Sacks, who wrote about the urgent need for such concepts as tact and restraint. I think you are right that those are as foundational to Talmudic debate as arguing, and perhaps more important.
Vanessa, I was all set to argue with you... then I read the article. No argument here. 😄 Excellent piece.
Me too: "But somewhere along the way, we began confusing the Jewish tradition of disagreement with the Jewish habit of being disagreeable." I said to myself "them's fightin' words!" I had a running tally in my head. The count was 3 and 2, and then she hit it out of the ballpark.
Argument possibility.
If she hit it out of the ballpark, it still would be a tie game.
The Jewish future will be secured by Hews who can shoot instead of argue. The IDF will insure survival . The Jamie Tadkins will march into boxcars
The Hews: The zionist answer to the Houtis. Seriously, though, you are right. There is a time for sonnets and there is a time for bullets. Now is the time for bullets.
I have heard from more than one Jew-hater that the Talmud is a wicked book against Christians. It's been used for hundreds of years in this way to justify pogroms. However, having studied religious commentaries, I know that it's dialogical.
The Talmud is not a rigid list of rules or a single manifesto; that part of it called the Gemara records centuries of continuous, spirited academic and legal debate. If you cherry-pick an egregious passage to represent the whole, it's misleading. This is done by atheists with the Bible all the time, picking violent passages and ignoring historical and theological context. One can misrepresent almost any text in this way.
Cherry-picking verses is also used by some 'replacement theology' Christians as well to misrepresent Jesus as being anti-Jewish when, in fact, his teachings are grounded in Judaism. For example, the 19th-century "Talmud Unmasked" falsely claims that Judaism teaches hatred of Christians. Jesus was a Jewish rabbi who taught from the Hebrew Scriptures and engaged in the same types of debates that were common among rabbis of his time (such as the debates between the Houses of Hillel and Shammai). Christianity originated as a sect of Second Temple Judaism.
Adversarial debate is also how the Western legal and parliamentary systems are structured. Rather than enforce a rigid dogma, issues are understood to be complex and in need of spirited debate to examine them, to get to the truth of the matter. The West inherited its systems of critical thinking from two ancient sources: the Socratic method (where a question is examined from all angles) and Jewish tradition (where rabbis analyze and debate the law to understand its nuances). It has provided the foundations for the best traditions of modern civilization. In Western law, a judge and jury arrive at the truth by listening to spirited, adversarial debate between two opposing sides.
Western society accepts that complex issues require rigorous examination rather than a single, unquestionable dictate. Islamic theocracies and Communist dictatorships employ rigid dictates. Societies that lack dialogue and debate become oppressive and narrow-minded. Western Europe is going down that path, unfortunately, by engaging in censorship.
Freedom of speech is necessary to allow the nuances of issues to be examined. A society's health depends on its willingness to allow diverse views and spirited debate. The ability to argue an issue from multiple angles without fear of persecution is a cornerstone of a free and thriving civilization. We owe this to the Jewish tradition of debate. What I also appreciate about such debate is the use of Jewish humor. A relevant example:
Two neighbors were having a fierce argument and decided to go to the village rabbi to settle their dispute. The first neighor presented his side of the case with great passion. The rabbi listened carefully, nodded, and said, "You know, you are right." The second neighbour, outraged, stepped forward and argued the exact opposite side with equal passion. The rabbi listened carefully, nodded, and said, "You know, you are right."The Rabbi's Wife: She was sitting in the corner and could not believe her ears. She said, "Husband, how can you tell them they are both right? Their arguments completely contradict each other!"The Rabbi: He looked at his wife, thought for a moment, and said, "You know, you are also right."
The Talmud is the most beautiful expression of all that is human, through a Jewish lens, ever put to print.
Love of ISRAEL is the refuah where we are one light.
On this all agree who bear and have throughout the ages born witness. On this love of G-D all are predestined to agree.
Without JEWISH light utter chaos and darkness will
overtake all the living.
It is imperative to shed all fear stand in support of her, united by this G-D given virtue at all times, in all places, as true defenders of HIS children in concert, in unison devoid of any fracuture on this ine point -
as one people healing from centuries of rising up, awakening.
✍🏻RL in the mikveh of tears as I bear witness. May the mourners on the battlefield upholding our
lives, truly fighting for our land, rights know by deeds done throughout the diaspora are not alone, and shall never be abandoned.
Fantastic points articulated perfectly.
Should we arm wrestle instead?
rotfl
Excellent discussion, Vanessa. I couldn't agree more.
These are great insights. While reading this, I kept thinking of Rabbi Sacks, who wrote about the urgent need for such concepts as tact and restraint. I think you are right that those are as foundational to Talmudic debate as arguing, and perhaps more important.
Excellent points and particularly important before the election. But, let’s not loudly broadcast this to those who already hate us.