To have a phobia is to have an irrational fear of something. I don't think it is irrational to fear the virulent antisemitism in the Muslim community. Remember, the Jews who actually existed in Muslim majority countries long before the advent of Islam were ethnically cleansed from those countries. It didn't happen because they were loved or respected.
It's not paranoia when they really are out to get you. It's not islamaphobia when they openly say they are going to kill you. Fear and loathing are the appropriate responses.
You lost me at #3. Islam isn't a race, so I'm not sure how you're seeing "racist" hatred of Muslims. The way I think of it today, Islam is, at best, a death-cult ideology with a political component that masquerades, when convenient, as a religion. But it isn't a religion -- not in the Judeo-Christian sense. Instead of "love they neighbor", they peach kill thy neighbor. Sure, not all of them do, but enough do to make the world a much worse place.
The synagogue in our city is forced to spend about $375,000.00 dollars every year on armed security. This is no different than an Islamic dhimmy tax on Jews. Instead of spending that money on educational programs, building improvement, or free/discounted tuition for those in need, the Jews in every community I know are forced to spend that money just to ensure they and their kids aren't all murdered while praying for peace.
Sadly most people are ignorant of the way Islam treated Jews for the last 1400 years. Khybar is a point of pride for Islam instead of a source of shame.
It is sad. For decades Al Jazeera has projected their narrative--that Muslims and Sephardic Jews were getting along just great before 1948--as a central axiom of their relentless dogma . This gargantuan lie has actually worked in America. Like all of the most effective propaganda, this story offers seemingly plausible explanations that are specially customized for people known to have zero historical knowledge. It's sad too that most Americans can identify Hitler, and Hitler alone, as the only personified symbol of genocidal jew hatred. Americans in general are (i) not really aware of the savagery and scale of pogroms in Eastern Europe that significantly pre-dated Hitler, (ii) generally clueless about the centrality and scale of jew hatred as a foundational force in establishing early stages of the Spanish Inquisition, and (iii) blissfully ignorant as to the Grand Mufti and multiple other Euro-influenced cultural vectors that mainlined hard-core Nazi values into the cultural mainstream throughout the middle East in ways that thrive and persist to this day in normalizing straight ahead Nazi myths at population scale in the middle east, and (iv) have no idea how common it was in the middle east to have Eastern Europe style Pogroms (Safed, 1834; Damascus, 1840; Aleppo, 1850; Marrakesh, 1863; Fez, 1912; Mossul, 1920s–1930s; Jaffa, 1921; Hebron, 1929; Safed, 1929; Baghdad (Farhud), 1941; Tripoli (Lebanon), 1945; Tripoli (Libya), 1945). This intellectual void explains a lot of the gullibility of westerners to Al Jazeera style agitprop and it certainly goes a long way towards explaining how the very people who carelessly identify American conservatives with Nazism are celebrating, lionizing and often joining forces with actual literal Nazis.
Even more sad is that these people don’t want to know. They like being hateful,angry and shouting when there’s no risks of consequences. Indeed very spine less bullies and cowards.
I would also add that ‘Islamophobia’ is term that was created by the Muslim Brotherhood to prevent legitimate criticism of radical Islam. I never use. I prefer the term ‘anti-Muslim’. Another I always hear people say not to lump all Muslims together and that the majority of Muslims are peace abiding people. But where were those Muslim voices after 7/10 saying ‘not in our name’ and ‘this is not my Islam?’. Where were the marches condemning the atrocities? Not a peep. Likewise when people say not to equate Gazans with Hamas even though the majority of Gazans celebrated what happened on 7/10 and Gazan civilians themselves, including someone participated in rapes, murder, theft and kidnappings. During the Shoah there were righteous gentiles who hid and risked their lives to save Jews. Not one person in Gaza has helped the hostages. Even when Israel offered $5 million dollars for their whereabouts, no one came forward. This speaks volumes about ‘ordinary’Gazans.
Of all the nasty tricks the Muslims have accomplished, the most insidious one has been getting Western governments to insist they are victims and to refuse to criticize them in any way. The leftists have helped them tremendously.
This title and subject are so deeply uncomfortable to my American soul. Actually physically uncomfortable.
Three things it made me think about:
1. That Muslims are never asked to separate their religion from their national alliances or politics the way Jews are.
2. The turn-the-other-cheek mentality of the West is Christian. Jews are expected to abide by this in a sort of perverse passion play for the world.
3. I see a lot of actual hatred (the old fashioned racist kind) online nowadays against Muslims. It's probably not going to go well in the long run, which would be a tragedy in the American sense of freedom and opportunity and equality for all religions.
The online hate against Muslims is nothing—NOTHING—compared to the Jew hate out there. Same with attacks on Jews—not even close. And when Muslim terror attacks start ramping up again, guess who the haters will blame? Not the Muslims themselves. They will blame the Jews as many haters already do.
I'm a Christian. The turn-the-other-cheek principle was what caused me almost physical discomfort back in my late teens when i was trying my best to be a practicing Catholic, as it was irreconcilable with any sense of ethics whatsoever. At the end i just said "sod it" and became irreligious.
(I still spend an inordinate amount of time staring at thin air & trying to understand the nature of G_d, but it always presents itself in mathematical / physical riddles.)
I came to the realization that I am becoming anti-Muslim myself. Those shit-eating grins on their faces as they learned of the carnage that had taken place in Israel on 10/7/2023. That was shocking and almost unbelievable. If I were Jewish, it wouldn’t have been shocking at all. I didn’t understand what “globalize the Intifada” meant until fairly recently. Yes, I was blissfully unaware.
Israelis were right to keep a close eye on Palestinians. I wish Muslims and Christian Nationalists would go somewhere far away and neutralize each other. They are a menace!
Islam is a disgusting evil violent philosophy invented by a war-mongering woman-hating thief, murderer, slave trader, rapist and paedophile. To fear it is perfectly rational and therefore by definition is not a phobia.
In my old corner of coldwar-era Central Europe the few muslims / arabs (and blacks) we encountered were university students and those who settled after studies, got married, worked. Patently normal, decent, civilised people, "just like us". I thought all were just like them. Took me a fairly short time living in "the West" to begrudgingly realise that they were the atypicals and outliers. Not the norm.
Nowadays my gut reaction to the sight of a hijab is a sudden urge to vomit. Then i remind myself that i shouldn't be so visceral really.
Yes, i'm islamophobic. I would be concerned about my sanity if i weren't.
I used to be antiracist once upon a time, and it was a sentiment rooted in ignorance.
@Joshua whilst the street demonstrations post October 7 have many Hamas and Hezbollah supporting Muslims, many of those marching, if not the majority, are white Caucasians. In Britain, these whites range in age from kids and teenagers, to seniors in their 80s.
Many have not got a clue about ‘which river and which sea’ when they chant ‘from the river to the sea’. I believe that expression is outlawed in Germany.
Many on these demonstrations are misguided by the biased propaganda being pedalled by social media and mainstream media.
Many are ignorant to the facts of the conflict; many are attending because it appears fashionable .. and many are useful idiots .. ie gays for Gaza .. which is like ‘turkeys for Christmas’
An excellent point was made in one of the earlier messages, islamophobia does NOT exist .. phobias are an irrational fear, and a fear of Islam is totally rational.
The reason why so many white middle class British people join in is because of their guilt about colonialism. Brown=good, white=bad. Since most of our families didn't arrive in the UK in time to benefit from the empire (which imo was not all bad), and we are not all "white", we don't need to feel bad about that, although there are some liberal Jews who appear to have succumbed. The soupcon of sexual hysteria adds to the excitement of a jolly good day out, I suppose.
You have lost me. I can’t get my head around what you mean by the guilt of colonialism.
I believe that the narrative of “ a land called Palestine taken over by european colonialists” has been played out so well by the mainstream media, together with the constant lie of Israel being an apartheid state.
So much of mainstream media has fallen for this fake palestinian narrative, with the Guardian, Channel 4, Sky and the BBC, with their bias against Israel, that the knock on effect of Jew hate sky rockets.
The education in schools of how the Ottoman Empire collapsed in 1918, and the ensuing nations evolved, is so poorly taught. The British population remain blind to the facts, are misguided and whipped into hysteria by ignorance and fashion.
It's all "intersectional", if you are a "good" liberal, all of this stuff, race-baiting, feeling bad about the British Empire (even if you had no part in it), your skin colour because Jews are all "white-adjacent" settlers, even the ones who were forced out of Arab countries, gender ideology, no matter what Hamas and Islamists in general do to gay people...all of it goes together, then they have to figure out the hierarchy of oppression, but we're at the bottom of their pile of condescension.
Ruth, all the jargon that you use, might be every day words to you and those in the political sphere but it shows we’re very different with our use of dictionary.
Your last line, ‘but we’re at the bottom of their pile of condescension’ needs a bit more of my grey matter analysis.
You know I would like to say you are wrong. But I honestly can't I am seeing it, experiencing it every single day and it is being supported by all too many useful idiots on the left. I am currently reading Douglas Murray"s Democracies and Death Cults. And he would agree. Is it wise at the moment to shout it from the rooftops. No! Is it wise at the moment to carry on with our eyes wide open and being prepared for the worst case scenario. Yes! It is very wise!
To have a phobia is to have an irrational fear of something. I don't think it is irrational to fear the virulent antisemitism in the Muslim community. Remember, the Jews who actually existed in Muslim majority countries long before the advent of Islam were ethnically cleansed from those countries. It didn't happen because they were loved or respected.
....agree completely - no such thing as Islamophobia - because it's a RATIONAL fear!
Well summarised … 🎗️
It's not paranoia when they really are out to get you. It's not islamaphobia when they openly say they are going to kill you. Fear and loathing are the appropriate responses.
Yup!!
You lost me at #3. Islam isn't a race, so I'm not sure how you're seeing "racist" hatred of Muslims. The way I think of it today, Islam is, at best, a death-cult ideology with a political component that masquerades, when convenient, as a religion. But it isn't a religion -- not in the Judeo-Christian sense. Instead of "love they neighbor", they peach kill thy neighbor. Sure, not all of them do, but enough do to make the world a much worse place.
The synagogue in our city is forced to spend about $375,000.00 dollars every year on armed security. This is no different than an Islamic dhimmy tax on Jews. Instead of spending that money on educational programs, building improvement, or free/discounted tuition for those in need, the Jews in every community I know are forced to spend that money just to ensure they and their kids aren't all murdered while praying for peace.
Sadly so.
Sadly most people are ignorant of the way Islam treated Jews for the last 1400 years. Khybar is a point of pride for Islam instead of a source of shame.
It is sad. For decades Al Jazeera has projected their narrative--that Muslims and Sephardic Jews were getting along just great before 1948--as a central axiom of their relentless dogma . This gargantuan lie has actually worked in America. Like all of the most effective propaganda, this story offers seemingly plausible explanations that are specially customized for people known to have zero historical knowledge. It's sad too that most Americans can identify Hitler, and Hitler alone, as the only personified symbol of genocidal jew hatred. Americans in general are (i) not really aware of the savagery and scale of pogroms in Eastern Europe that significantly pre-dated Hitler, (ii) generally clueless about the centrality and scale of jew hatred as a foundational force in establishing early stages of the Spanish Inquisition, and (iii) blissfully ignorant as to the Grand Mufti and multiple other Euro-influenced cultural vectors that mainlined hard-core Nazi values into the cultural mainstream throughout the middle East in ways that thrive and persist to this day in normalizing straight ahead Nazi myths at population scale in the middle east, and (iv) have no idea how common it was in the middle east to have Eastern Europe style Pogroms (Safed, 1834; Damascus, 1840; Aleppo, 1850; Marrakesh, 1863; Fez, 1912; Mossul, 1920s–1930s; Jaffa, 1921; Hebron, 1929; Safed, 1929; Baghdad (Farhud), 1941; Tripoli (Lebanon), 1945; Tripoli (Libya), 1945). This intellectual void explains a lot of the gullibility of westerners to Al Jazeera style agitprop and it certainly goes a long way towards explaining how the very people who carelessly identify American conservatives with Nazism are celebrating, lionizing and often joining forces with actual literal Nazis.
And before that for hundreds of years the Muslim persecution of Jews was bitter and brtual.
Even more sad is that these people don’t want to know. They like being hateful,angry and shouting when there’s no risks of consequences. Indeed very spine less bullies and cowards.
I would also add that ‘Islamophobia’ is term that was created by the Muslim Brotherhood to prevent legitimate criticism of radical Islam. I never use. I prefer the term ‘anti-Muslim’. Another I always hear people say not to lump all Muslims together and that the majority of Muslims are peace abiding people. But where were those Muslim voices after 7/10 saying ‘not in our name’ and ‘this is not my Islam?’. Where were the marches condemning the atrocities? Not a peep. Likewise when people say not to equate Gazans with Hamas even though the majority of Gazans celebrated what happened on 7/10 and Gazan civilians themselves, including someone participated in rapes, murder, theft and kidnappings. During the Shoah there were righteous gentiles who hid and risked their lives to save Jews. Not one person in Gaza has helped the hostages. Even when Israel offered $5 million dollars for their whereabouts, no one came forward. This speaks volumes about ‘ordinary’Gazans.
Of all the nasty tricks the Muslims have accomplished, the most insidious one has been getting Western governments to insist they are victims and to refuse to criticize them in any way. The leftists have helped them tremendously.
100% Thank You!
This title and subject are so deeply uncomfortable to my American soul. Actually physically uncomfortable.
Three things it made me think about:
1. That Muslims are never asked to separate their religion from their national alliances or politics the way Jews are.
2. The turn-the-other-cheek mentality of the West is Christian. Jews are expected to abide by this in a sort of perverse passion play for the world.
3. I see a lot of actual hatred (the old fashioned racist kind) online nowadays against Muslims. It's probably not going to go well in the long run, which would be a tragedy in the American sense of freedom and opportunity and equality for all religions.
The online hate against Muslims is nothing—NOTHING—compared to the Jew hate out there. Same with attacks on Jews—not even close. And when Muslim terror attacks start ramping up again, guess who the haters will blame? Not the Muslims themselves. They will blame the Jews as many haters already do.
I'm a Christian. The turn-the-other-cheek principle was what caused me almost physical discomfort back in my late teens when i was trying my best to be a practicing Catholic, as it was irreconcilable with any sense of ethics whatsoever. At the end i just said "sod it" and became irreligious.
(I still spend an inordinate amount of time staring at thin air & trying to understand the nature of G_d, but it always presents itself in mathematical / physical riddles.)
You’re right Joshua Hoffman- you put into words what many of us are thinking and feeling. Thank you for that. It requires both clarity and courage.
I came to the realization that I am becoming anti-Muslim myself. Those shit-eating grins on their faces as they learned of the carnage that had taken place in Israel on 10/7/2023. That was shocking and almost unbelievable. If I were Jewish, it wouldn’t have been shocking at all. I didn’t understand what “globalize the Intifada” meant until fairly recently. Yes, I was blissfully unaware.
Israelis were right to keep a close eye on Palestinians. I wish Muslims and Christian Nationalists would go somewhere far away and neutralize each other. They are a menace!
Islam is a disgusting evil violent philosophy invented by a war-mongering woman-hating thief, murderer, slave trader, rapist and paedophile. To fear it is perfectly rational and therefore by definition is not a phobia.
Exactly.
So true! We are all Islamophobic because of the litany of cruelty and medieval killings they carry out!
You're not alone.
In my old corner of coldwar-era Central Europe the few muslims / arabs (and blacks) we encountered were university students and those who settled after studies, got married, worked. Patently normal, decent, civilised people, "just like us". I thought all were just like them. Took me a fairly short time living in "the West" to begrudgingly realise that they were the atypicals and outliers. Not the norm.
Nowadays my gut reaction to the sight of a hijab is a sudden urge to vomit. Then i remind myself that i shouldn't be so visceral really.
Yes, i'm islamophobic. I would be concerned about my sanity if i weren't.
I used to be antiracist once upon a time, and it was a sentiment rooted in ignorance.
@Joshua whilst the street demonstrations post October 7 have many Hamas and Hezbollah supporting Muslims, many of those marching, if not the majority, are white Caucasians. In Britain, these whites range in age from kids and teenagers, to seniors in their 80s.
Many have not got a clue about ‘which river and which sea’ when they chant ‘from the river to the sea’. I believe that expression is outlawed in Germany.
Many on these demonstrations are misguided by the biased propaganda being pedalled by social media and mainstream media.
Many are ignorant to the facts of the conflict; many are attending because it appears fashionable .. and many are useful idiots .. ie gays for Gaza .. which is like ‘turkeys for Christmas’
An excellent point was made in one of the earlier messages, islamophobia does NOT exist .. phobias are an irrational fear, and a fear of Islam is totally rational.
The reason why so many white middle class British people join in is because of their guilt about colonialism. Brown=good, white=bad. Since most of our families didn't arrive in the UK in time to benefit from the empire (which imo was not all bad), and we are not all "white", we don't need to feel bad about that, although there are some liberal Jews who appear to have succumbed. The soupcon of sexual hysteria adds to the excitement of a jolly good day out, I suppose.
You have lost me. I can’t get my head around what you mean by the guilt of colonialism.
I believe that the narrative of “ a land called Palestine taken over by european colonialists” has been played out so well by the mainstream media, together with the constant lie of Israel being an apartheid state.
So much of mainstream media has fallen for this fake palestinian narrative, with the Guardian, Channel 4, Sky and the BBC, with their bias against Israel, that the knock on effect of Jew hate sky rockets.
The education in schools of how the Ottoman Empire collapsed in 1918, and the ensuing nations evolved, is so poorly taught. The British population remain blind to the facts, are misguided and whipped into hysteria by ignorance and fashion.
It's all "intersectional", if you are a "good" liberal, all of this stuff, race-baiting, feeling bad about the British Empire (even if you had no part in it), your skin colour because Jews are all "white-adjacent" settlers, even the ones who were forced out of Arab countries, gender ideology, no matter what Hamas and Islamists in general do to gay people...all of it goes together, then they have to figure out the hierarchy of oppression, but we're at the bottom of their pile of condescension.
Ruth, all the jargon that you use, might be every day words to you and those in the political sphere but it shows we’re very different with our use of dictionary.
Your last line, ‘but we’re at the bottom of their pile of condescension’ needs a bit more of my grey matter analysis.
I know it sounds like I'm talking rubbish but that is how they think.
In short, they don't care about Jews. The jargon is finding its way into our institutions, starting at school.
You know I would like to say you are wrong. But I honestly can't I am seeing it, experiencing it every single day and it is being supported by all too many useful idiots on the left. I am currently reading Douglas Murray"s Democracies and Death Cults. And he would agree. Is it wise at the moment to shout it from the rooftops. No! Is it wise at the moment to carry on with our eyes wide open and being prepared for the worst case scenario. Yes! It is very wise!
This article described Nazism 2025 style very aptly
I feel this.