My immediate answer to such questions is "There is no genocide, unless you refer to the attempted genocide of Israeli Jews. Is that what you mean? If so, I'm happy Israel has been able to defend itself." If they question further, I go on to say. "Hamas stated their goal was to make everyday an October 7th for Israel, which would have resulted in 1200 dead each day. It isn't for lack of trying that hamas has failed to achieve this genocidal objective. Are you seriously giving credit to hamas because Israel has stopped them? In 2.5 years of war and with massive arsenal and ability to cause massive casualties, there isn't one day that Israel has killed 1200 in one day, or even half that amount."
If the conversation proceeds further along nonsense accusations Israel is committing genocide, I know I'm conversing with a moron or a Jew hater, and either end the conversation or lose entire interest in anything they have to say. And I couldn't give a shit what they think.
This is a great response, but, as unpopular as my response to the article may be, I struggle with the fact that many Jews, like the author and friend, still consider themselves progressives and still vote Democratic.
They want to be accepted in a progressive world that wants them gone. Fine from their schools. Gone from their social circles. Gone from their places of employment. Just gone.
They hang out in quintessentially ultra-progressive enclaves, like Venice (full of pink-haired, septum-ringed, tons of piercings and Chinese tattoos, queers for Palestine), and are then surprised when the conversation turns antisemitic, as it always will, the minute they become aware you're a Jew.
I wouldn't go there on a dare. It's like going to a Klan BBQ in the '50s and being surprised at the amount of anti-black sentiment overheard.
Again, I'm not expecting this to be a well-loved response, because it doesn't indulge in the typical Nextdoor App "Oh my God, I'm so sorry this happened to you!", but it's time for Jews to take responsibility for their affinity group and hopefully find a new one that understands the morality of Israel and the lies of Tiktok.
With all the other regions of the world for which you could have asked these two women, in response to the imaginary genocide in Gaza, one thing springs to mind … ‘no Jews, no news’. It does not help in answering the two women, but those four words are so true in today’s world.
We need to stop playing their game. Better yet, turn the game back on these "progressive" (pseudo-) "intellectuals." So, you see the re-establishment of Israel as an expression of "colonialism?" (In reality - you know, the real reality - not the "theory" they learned from their semiotics professor, Israel is the greatest example of decolonization of the 20th Century. The indigenous people finally threw off the shackles of the Ottoman and British Empires). Very well, here you are in a nice restaurant or cafe in Venice Beach, or Toronto, or Auckland, or Sydney. Unless you are a Native American, or an Australian Aborigine, or a Maori, you need to get on the next plane back to wherever you came from. Or wherever your parents, or grandparents came from. And give up your US, Canadian, Australia or New Zealand passport. Come on, "progressives," live up to the "principles" you so glibly talk about while you sip your sauvignon blanc. (Made from plants introduced from France - another example of colonization! It's everwhere once you start looking).
I am starting to understand that instead of trying to defend, you need to start by agreeing about the principle that was brought up. In this case, no one likes to hear about a genocide occurring and there are so many going on in this world by Iran and Hamas-backed terror groups like in African nations and historically in other parts of the world, and only recently Iran killed more of their own people in just a few weeks than the numbers we heard from Hamas about the Gazans. And the 10 years living in Israel showed that Israelis are an ethical nation that does not commit genocide but has been maligned by a very wealthy and ruthless hate machine, redirecting away from the real genocides in the world. That those 10 years living in Israel showed that Hamas cared more with the destruction of Israel and less about their own people that they actually trained their children to hate and murder while not building shelters for those children to be safe while Israel tried to pinpoint Hamas terrorists to kill, not the general population.
I usually respond with some rendition of: "The enemies of Israel have been accusing it of committing genocide since the 1980s, that must be the world's slowest genocide." And then say that the charge of "genocide" is not a truth or fact claim but a rhetorical weapon meant to smear and delegitimize the world's only Jewish state.
But people can never be reasoned out of positions they weren't reasoned into. Urban post-collegiate liberals throughout the West, especially well-off Californians (I used to live in Venice), are all apostles of the Social Justice faith (whether they know it or not), which is a post-Christian ideology that works mostly as a social marker and signal and that is rooted in guilt (of the white, bourgeois and colonial varieties) and the foundational belief that morality and etiquette demand always taking the side of the supposed "oppressed", regardless of context or history. It is the modern therapeutic version of the White Man's Burden and a shorthand way to display you're "on the right side of history" and believe in universal equality and all the other vague sentimental abstractions that most people claim as their "values".
I bet that 9 out of 10 people who swallow the "genocide" lie after scrolling Instagram between fashion pics have never read a single book about the issue and know zero about anything from Herzl to Arafat to the Peel Commission to the intifadas and the dozens of peace offers Israel has made, all refused.
The only bright side here is that these supposed beliefs are a mile wide but an inch deep, most of these people are just parroting whatever they believe their chosen herd demands, and they get bored very easily. Palestinians are just the updated Trans child or George Floyd, the sacred victim du jour. Hopefully the MSM will soon cook up another mass hysteria and the herd can move on...
I would probably have told Mandy most politely to kiss my Jewish ass. Indian where the Muslims massacre the Hindu and the Hindu massacre the Muslims. Really chutzpah Mandy.
I am an Australian Jew, with dual Israeli citizenship. Time and again in social settings where I've not known the people around me well, I've been subjected to this kind of questioning since October 7. Example: a small group of women invited to morning tea in country regional Victoria, myself included. The woman to my left leans forward and says, 'Liat, doesn't it make you sad what the Israelis are doing to the people of Gaza?' Silence all around ,,, deepening. I turn to her and say, 'No, it doesn't make me sad. It makes me angry, violated, at what Hamas and Palestinian civilians have done to the people on kibbutzim near Gaza and at the Nova music festival in an orgy of murder, rape and kidnapping. And it makes me angry that once again we are forced to kill others for our own survival.'
They used to lie about "apartheid". Now they've upgraded the lie to "genocide." There is no place for a Jew in the progressive world. Unless that Jew is a Bernie Sanders or a Brad Lander. And they aren't really Jews at all except by accident of birth. You describe the progressive world where Jews are asked to denounce Israel when people learn they are Jews. In my place of residence, which is not the progressive world, when people learn I am Jewish they often tell me "We stand with you." I cannot tell you how many times I have heard this since 10/7. The progressive world is not the world.
An insightful article by Vanessa Berg! She's unfortunately, 100% right! Only Jews are asked to denounce their own country. Only Jews must answer for all the actions of the country's government. Only Jews must actively disavow the actions of their country. Only Jews must disavow their own country, period. This progressive girl's question is a great example of the implicit antisemitism of the left. The left has hated Israel since it became a regional power in 1967. The left liked the Jews...until they stopped being underdogs and became strong. When Jews stopped being victims, the left turned on them. It didn't help that the Soviet propaganda spread the idea that Israel was an evil settler colonial state occupying the poor, helpless Palestinians. Democrats and liberals are largely pro-Palestine no doubt about it. Liberals, progressives and leftists are simply unable to see Jews like any other people nor are they able to see Israel as being just like any other country.
AMEN! I support your free speech, but I hope in the future you do not engage.. No matter what you say, you are going to be wrong in the eyes of progressives who are no friends to Jews or
Fortunately I have never had the issue of "genocide" addressed to me personally, but I am hearing and reading this accusation. This is reflected in the way some Democratic Jewish politicians are distancing themselves from Israel. It won't help; Jewish politicians like Josh Shapiro and Rahm Emmanuel have no chance of winning the Democratic nomination. Even worse, Brad Landers, who in the past has claimed to be pro-Israel, and who is running in a heavily Jewish district in New York City, has used the term genocide in describing Israel's actions in Gaza and even in Lebanon; apparently, he is expected to win his primary in June.
My immediate answer to such questions is "There is no genocide, unless you refer to the attempted genocide of Israeli Jews. Is that what you mean? If so, I'm happy Israel has been able to defend itself." If they question further, I go on to say. "Hamas stated their goal was to make everyday an October 7th for Israel, which would have resulted in 1200 dead each day. It isn't for lack of trying that hamas has failed to achieve this genocidal objective. Are you seriously giving credit to hamas because Israel has stopped them? In 2.5 years of war and with massive arsenal and ability to cause massive casualties, there isn't one day that Israel has killed 1200 in one day, or even half that amount."
If the conversation proceeds further along nonsense accusations Israel is committing genocide, I know I'm conversing with a moron or a Jew hater, and either end the conversation or lose entire interest in anything they have to say. And I couldn't give a shit what they think.
This is a great response, but, as unpopular as my response to the article may be, I struggle with the fact that many Jews, like the author and friend, still consider themselves progressives and still vote Democratic.
They want to be accepted in a progressive world that wants them gone. Fine from their schools. Gone from their social circles. Gone from their places of employment. Just gone.
They hang out in quintessentially ultra-progressive enclaves, like Venice (full of pink-haired, septum-ringed, tons of piercings and Chinese tattoos, queers for Palestine), and are then surprised when the conversation turns antisemitic, as it always will, the minute they become aware you're a Jew.
I wouldn't go there on a dare. It's like going to a Klan BBQ in the '50s and being surprised at the amount of anti-black sentiment overheard.
Again, I'm not expecting this to be a well-loved response, because it doesn't indulge in the typical Nextdoor App "Oh my God, I'm so sorry this happened to you!", but it's time for Jews to take responsibility for their affinity group and hopefully find a new one that understands the morality of Israel and the lies of Tiktok.
With all the other regions of the world for which you could have asked these two women, in response to the imaginary genocide in Gaza, one thing springs to mind … ‘no Jews, no news’. It does not help in answering the two women, but those four words are so true in today’s world.
Your response is an excellent one and it’s imperative that we have such a reply at our fingertips. Thank you for sharing yours.
We need to stop playing their game. Better yet, turn the game back on these "progressive" (pseudo-) "intellectuals." So, you see the re-establishment of Israel as an expression of "colonialism?" (In reality - you know, the real reality - not the "theory" they learned from their semiotics professor, Israel is the greatest example of decolonization of the 20th Century. The indigenous people finally threw off the shackles of the Ottoman and British Empires). Very well, here you are in a nice restaurant or cafe in Venice Beach, or Toronto, or Auckland, or Sydney. Unless you are a Native American, or an Australian Aborigine, or a Maori, you need to get on the next plane back to wherever you came from. Or wherever your parents, or grandparents came from. And give up your US, Canadian, Australia or New Zealand passport. Come on, "progressives," live up to the "principles" you so glibly talk about while you sip your sauvignon blanc. (Made from plants introduced from France - another example of colonization! It's everwhere once you start looking).
While I've never been asked this type of question I think it's a good idea to have a response ready.
E.g. And how do you feel about what's happening in the Sudan?
This pivots from the obsession about Israel.
I really wish you could’ve responded the way you wrote it.
I am starting to understand that instead of trying to defend, you need to start by agreeing about the principle that was brought up. In this case, no one likes to hear about a genocide occurring and there are so many going on in this world by Iran and Hamas-backed terror groups like in African nations and historically in other parts of the world, and only recently Iran killed more of their own people in just a few weeks than the numbers we heard from Hamas about the Gazans. And the 10 years living in Israel showed that Israelis are an ethical nation that does not commit genocide but has been maligned by a very wealthy and ruthless hate machine, redirecting away from the real genocides in the world. That those 10 years living in Israel showed that Hamas cared more with the destruction of Israel and less about their own people that they actually trained their children to hate and murder while not building shelters for those children to be safe while Israel tried to pinpoint Hamas terrorists to kill, not the general population.
I usually respond with some rendition of: "The enemies of Israel have been accusing it of committing genocide since the 1980s, that must be the world's slowest genocide." And then say that the charge of "genocide" is not a truth or fact claim but a rhetorical weapon meant to smear and delegitimize the world's only Jewish state.
But people can never be reasoned out of positions they weren't reasoned into. Urban post-collegiate liberals throughout the West, especially well-off Californians (I used to live in Venice), are all apostles of the Social Justice faith (whether they know it or not), which is a post-Christian ideology that works mostly as a social marker and signal and that is rooted in guilt (of the white, bourgeois and colonial varieties) and the foundational belief that morality and etiquette demand always taking the side of the supposed "oppressed", regardless of context or history. It is the modern therapeutic version of the White Man's Burden and a shorthand way to display you're "on the right side of history" and believe in universal equality and all the other vague sentimental abstractions that most people claim as their "values".
I bet that 9 out of 10 people who swallow the "genocide" lie after scrolling Instagram between fashion pics have never read a single book about the issue and know zero about anything from Herzl to Arafat to the Peel Commission to the intifadas and the dozens of peace offers Israel has made, all refused.
The only bright side here is that these supposed beliefs are a mile wide but an inch deep, most of these people are just parroting whatever they believe their chosen herd demands, and they get bored very easily. Palestinians are just the updated Trans child or George Floyd, the sacred victim du jour. Hopefully the MSM will soon cook up another mass hysteria and the herd can move on...
The herd is mobile. Many started as climate activists, became "pro-Palestinian" protesters and moved on to anti-ICE protests.
I would probably have told Mandy most politely to kiss my Jewish ass. Indian where the Muslims massacre the Hindu and the Hindu massacre the Muslims. Really chutzpah Mandy.
I would have said go to hell and walked out immediately.
Exactly!!!!!!
I am an Australian Jew, with dual Israeli citizenship. Time and again in social settings where I've not known the people around me well, I've been subjected to this kind of questioning since October 7. Example: a small group of women invited to morning tea in country regional Victoria, myself included. The woman to my left leans forward and says, 'Liat, doesn't it make you sad what the Israelis are doing to the people of Gaza?' Silence all around ,,, deepening. I turn to her and say, 'No, it doesn't make me sad. It makes me angry, violated, at what Hamas and Palestinian civilians have done to the people on kibbutzim near Gaza and at the Nova music festival in an orgy of murder, rape and kidnapping. And it makes me angry that once again we are forced to kill others for our own survival.'
With apologies to Dara Horn, if there’s one thing people love more than dead Jews, it is defenseless ones.
It is high time that Jews confronted with such questions begin asking back the question about India and Muslims that your friend DID NOT ASK!!!!!
They used to lie about "apartheid". Now they've upgraded the lie to "genocide." There is no place for a Jew in the progressive world. Unless that Jew is a Bernie Sanders or a Brad Lander. And they aren't really Jews at all except by accident of birth. You describe the progressive world where Jews are asked to denounce Israel when people learn they are Jews. In my place of residence, which is not the progressive world, when people learn I am Jewish they often tell me "We stand with you." I cannot tell you how many times I have heard this since 10/7. The progressive world is not the world.
An insightful article by Vanessa Berg! She's unfortunately, 100% right! Only Jews are asked to denounce their own country. Only Jews must answer for all the actions of the country's government. Only Jews must actively disavow the actions of their country. Only Jews must disavow their own country, period. This progressive girl's question is a great example of the implicit antisemitism of the left. The left has hated Israel since it became a regional power in 1967. The left liked the Jews...until they stopped being underdogs and became strong. When Jews stopped being victims, the left turned on them. It didn't help that the Soviet propaganda spread the idea that Israel was an evil settler colonial state occupying the poor, helpless Palestinians. Democrats and liberals are largely pro-Palestine no doubt about it. Liberals, progressives and leftists are simply unable to see Jews like any other people nor are they able to see Israel as being just like any other country.
What was the actual response then?
One of my best friends had to ask me what I thought of Netanyahu. Why?
AMEN! I support your free speech, but I hope in the future you do not engage.. No matter what you say, you are going to be wrong in the eyes of progressives who are no friends to Jews or
democracy.
Outstanding essay!!
Fortunately I have never had the issue of "genocide" addressed to me personally, but I am hearing and reading this accusation. This is reflected in the way some Democratic Jewish politicians are distancing themselves from Israel. It won't help; Jewish politicians like Josh Shapiro and Rahm Emmanuel have no chance of winning the Democratic nomination. Even worse, Brad Landers, who in the past has claimed to be pro-Israel, and who is running in a heavily Jewish district in New York City, has used the term genocide in describing Israel's actions in Gaza and even in Lebanon; apparently, he is expected to win his primary in June.