Now that the political construct of Left and Right has collapsed, the Israel question exposes who defends civilization — and who's enabling its destruction.
The problem which comes with the Truth of what you say here, is that this simple Dichotomy (pro-Israel or anti-Israel, as the ultimate Defender of Western Civilisation) puts Jews and Israel and Antisemitism once again at the forefront of political discourse, and I am not sure I want to be there yet again. You are right however when you say this is the reality anyway, so better get used to the fact.
This may be what being "Chosen" by G-d means. We may well be the issue by which the judgment of the world hinges. You may not like being there, but that's the deal.
I am not religious, and when people point out Jewish Exceptionalism, I say there are Good and Bad in all Peoples. Thus, what happens to the value of The Individual when we and others talk about ‘We, and Us and Them’? Individual responsibility comes BEFORE ‘collective guilt’ or ‘collective Innocence’. Every time.
I LOVE Israel and stand with Israel. When finally flying into Tel Aviv, I was crying. Where did it come from? It is in my DNA. And, memories of stories told by my grandparents about life in the “old country” before they emigrated to America. I was seeing the miracle in the desert with my own eyes, impressed with the accomplishments of the people in a short amount of time.
We must all realize by now that the Israelis are fighting this horrible war for the West, for us in America. Their young people in uniform are courageously doing it for all of us. It is time for us to wake up to this fact. Iran is our enemy and must be stopped. We have started this process with the American B2 planes going there and delaying their uranium buildup toward a devastating bomb. We must stand together in defense of our way of life.
1. The left right divide in Israel collapsed many years ago. An absolute majority has opposed making concessions to the Palestinian murderers since the rejection of Ehud Barak over 20 years ago. Not surprisingly, the Labor party is barely breathing. October 7 might have disillusioned a few more of the small amount of foolish members of the left but most Israelis had their eyes wide open long before.
2. You are correct that in reality the divide is between those who support Israel in its battle and those who would see it destroyed. But their are large numbers of liberal and progressive Zionists in the United States that simply refuse to acknowledge this reality. They refuse to concede that it is conservatives who support Israel and their own ideological side that would see it destroyed. They pick up on every single case of a right wing anti-semite as evidence that their world view is correct while minimizing or ignoring what is emanating from their own side. The media makes it easy since they fail to report the reality enabling these people to remain in their bubble.
This is extraordinarily silly. People can stand with Israel and still feel its current policies are misguided. There’s a lot of people who feel this way.
The clarification of the two positions is helpful. My personal position is squarely pro-Israel. On October 7, I was visiting my daughter in Seattle and we watched the tv coverage for several days. From that time on I followed the news of Israel mostly from the JPost and the telegram Channel of Amir Tsarfati. And more recently via Jewish authors on Substack, some living in Israel, some living elsewhere. It would be helpful to know whether the Israelis as a whole are united in the belief that a two state solution is no longer possible, ever. It may come off as grandiose but I have to say I love Israel.
The fact of the matter is that both Likud and it's principle opposition hold virtually identical views on this issue at this point. The Labor party and it's further left allies barely exist anymore. The reason is squarely because they supported a process which has brought endless war death and horror to Israel.
"If you are anti-Israel, no matter what you call yourself, your sympathies are with the people who would happily burn the world down." Not necessarily. And it depends on what you mean by anti-Israel. I do not believe that Zionists and the British had any moral, legal, or ethical right to establish a jewish state in Palestine against the wishes of the Arab-Muslim majority there. And I do not believe that a state based on religion and ethnicity is a paragon democracy and a good model for a modern society. That said, now that Israel is a fait accompli, it has a right to exist and defend itself, like any other country, and I am not a fan of Arab-Muslim countries that base their societies on religion and ethnicity, just as Israel does, and that is the sort of society Palestinian Arabs would impose if they had their own state.
I am lost. Are you arguing that Goldstein and Ben Gvir are on Team Civilization, or admitting that significant parts of the Israeli polity are violent bigots? Where is the slander?
Goldstein was a lunatic supported by a tony fringe of lunatics. You have slandered the mainstream Israeli right by equating his actions and beliefs to them. Same with Ben Gvir. I dont like him but last I checked he didn't walk into a Mosque and slaughter dozens of people. And finally if the centrists who almost entirely agree with the policies of Likud would form a coalition then the extreme right wouldn't need to be a part of the government. Hope that helps.
Lunatics yes. Tiny no. You just have to face that. Have you seen Goldstein’s grave? A veritable shrine, with small stones piled on it from respectful visitors. Ben Gvir and Smotrich are cabinet ministers, and so are several less well-known lunatics. How can you consider key ministers (Finance, Police) as unrepresentative of the government as a whole? And of the people who elected it?
The problem which comes with the Truth of what you say here, is that this simple Dichotomy (pro-Israel or anti-Israel, as the ultimate Defender of Western Civilisation) puts Jews and Israel and Antisemitism once again at the forefront of political discourse, and I am not sure I want to be there yet again. You are right however when you say this is the reality anyway, so better get used to the fact.
Know thine enemies. And thy friends. And dont assume anything based upon historic labels or affiliations.
This may be what being "Chosen" by G-d means. We may well be the issue by which the judgment of the world hinges. You may not like being there, but that's the deal.
I am not religious, and when people point out Jewish Exceptionalism, I say there are Good and Bad in all Peoples. Thus, what happens to the value of The Individual when we and others talk about ‘We, and Us and Them’? Individual responsibility comes BEFORE ‘collective guilt’ or ‘collective Innocence’. Every time.
I LOVE Israel and stand with Israel. When finally flying into Tel Aviv, I was crying. Where did it come from? It is in my DNA. And, memories of stories told by my grandparents about life in the “old country” before they emigrated to America. I was seeing the miracle in the desert with my own eyes, impressed with the accomplishments of the people in a short amount of time.
We must all realize by now that the Israelis are fighting this horrible war for the West, for us in America. Their young people in uniform are courageously doing it for all of us. It is time for us to wake up to this fact. Iran is our enemy and must be stopped. We have started this process with the American B2 planes going there and delaying their uranium buildup toward a devastating bomb. We must stand together in defense of our way of life.
This is all traceable to the long march to the far left by liberals and progressives
This has become my litmus test as well. Which is why I would support a John Fetterman over a Marjorie Taylor Green any day.
A couple of things
1. The left right divide in Israel collapsed many years ago. An absolute majority has opposed making concessions to the Palestinian murderers since the rejection of Ehud Barak over 20 years ago. Not surprisingly, the Labor party is barely breathing. October 7 might have disillusioned a few more of the small amount of foolish members of the left but most Israelis had their eyes wide open long before.
2. You are correct that in reality the divide is between those who support Israel in its battle and those who would see it destroyed. But their are large numbers of liberal and progressive Zionists in the United States that simply refuse to acknowledge this reality. They refuse to concede that it is conservatives who support Israel and their own ideological side that would see it destroyed. They pick up on every single case of a right wing anti-semite as evidence that their world view is correct while minimizing or ignoring what is emanating from their own side. The media makes it easy since they fail to report the reality enabling these people to remain in their bubble.
This is extraordinarily silly. People can stand with Israel and still feel its current policies are misguided. There’s a lot of people who feel this way.
Not when their opinions are based on lies which they almost certainly are.
When I see anti-Israel people it's almost never a criticism of one policy or another. Unless saying the existence of the state is an "issue".
It nearly always is much more broad and existential.
Excellent article. It forced me to think which is very difficult to do at my age!
The clarification of the two positions is helpful. My personal position is squarely pro-Israel. On October 7, I was visiting my daughter in Seattle and we watched the tv coverage for several days. From that time on I followed the news of Israel mostly from the JPost and the telegram Channel of Amir Tsarfati. And more recently via Jewish authors on Substack, some living in Israel, some living elsewhere. It would be helpful to know whether the Israelis as a whole are united in the belief that a two state solution is no longer possible, ever. It may come off as grandiose but I have to say I love Israel.
The fact of the matter is that both Likud and it's principle opposition hold virtually identical views on this issue at this point. The Labor party and it's further left allies barely exist anymore. The reason is squarely because they supported a process which has brought endless war death and horror to Israel.
Agreed
"If you are anti-Israel, no matter what you call yourself, your sympathies are with the people who would happily burn the world down." Not necessarily. And it depends on what you mean by anti-Israel. I do not believe that Zionists and the British had any moral, legal, or ethical right to establish a jewish state in Palestine against the wishes of the Arab-Muslim majority there. And I do not believe that a state based on religion and ethnicity is a paragon democracy and a good model for a modern society. That said, now that Israel is a fait accompli, it has a right to exist and defend itself, like any other country, and I am not a fan of Arab-Muslim countries that base their societies on religion and ethnicity, just as Israel does, and that is the sort of society Palestinian Arabs would impose if they had their own state.
I think you’ll have to explain more slowly why Baruch Goldstein and his fanboy Ben Gvir are on Team Civilization.
That's a slander and an idiotic comment.
I am lost. Are you arguing that Goldstein and Ben Gvir are on Team Civilization, or admitting that significant parts of the Israeli polity are violent bigots? Where is the slander?
Goldstein was a lunatic supported by a tony fringe of lunatics. You have slandered the mainstream Israeli right by equating his actions and beliefs to them. Same with Ben Gvir. I dont like him but last I checked he didn't walk into a Mosque and slaughter dozens of people. And finally if the centrists who almost entirely agree with the policies of Likud would form a coalition then the extreme right wouldn't need to be a part of the government. Hope that helps.
Lunatics yes. Tiny no. You just have to face that. Have you seen Goldstein’s grave? A veritable shrine, with small stones piled on it from respectful visitors. Ben Gvir and Smotrich are cabinet ministers, and so are several less well-known lunatics. How can you consider key ministers (Finance, Police) as unrepresentative of the government as a whole? And of the people who elected it?
Still tiny. And having nothing to do with Likud. A free society will always have kooks. Ours here does and Israel's does as well.
Deep
Israel is not on my radar. I ignore all of it.
Are you for the technocracy or are you against it?
That’s what the world is dealing with. Israel has always been a man made tool.
Both Israel and USA are using the threat of terrorism to kill/murder others. They’re doing it out in the open now.
They’re showing off. Soon it will become the norm.
Idiotic and so wrong. You failed Adam Hummel's test.
Troll