This peace proposal might seem unlikely or even virtually impossible, revolutionary or counter-culture, and certainly imperfect — yet one that could very well deliver what so many of us want to see.
"That’s why people must see this conflict for what it is: a Jewish-antisemitic battle, not an Israeli-Palestinian one." Well said.
We need to understand that the entirety of the Palestine Cause isn't about aiding Palestinians, but about getting rid of Israel and putting Jews back in their "proper" bottom-class dhimmi place.
But your suggestion has two primary flaws.
The smaller flaw is that it's extremely problematic for Israel's security. Where did Hamas get all its materiel from, if not smuggled in through Egypt? Why would an Egyptian protectorate be any less susceptible to Hamas repeating Oct. 7th over again?
The security challenges are even greater in Judea and Samaria. Can Israel afford to cede control of the mountains overlooking much of undisputed Israel to the wallpapered boiling pot that is Jordan? Iran already successfully smuggles arms into Judea and Samaria via Jordan and the Jordanian border; a Jordanian protectorate would do the same on steroids.
But the larger flaw: once we understand that the Palestine Cause is antisemitic to its core, then any concessions Israel makes to that cause are a normalization of antisemitism. Giving over Gaza, and Judea and Samaria, with their rich Jewish history, to countries that are nominally at peace with Israel, but are no less antisemitic than Palestinians themselves, means accepting that an antisemitic population must be placated instead of denied.
The only solution is to force Palestinians to make a choice: accept Israeli sovereignty and give up the fundamental and societal antisemitism of the Palestine Cause, or be condemned to exile somewhere around the world.
Joshua deserves much credit for expressing his views, knowing they would be a lightning rod for dissent.
You have articulated very good points in opposition, and others have as well. I expect this will continue, at least for a several days, and it will be interesting to see if some form of consensus develops. In the meantime, I applaud Josh’s intent, and his courage in expressing his views without equivocation, but also disagree with him on the viability of his proposed ‘solution’ to these intractable issues.
May G-d Almighty continue to bless, guide, and protect His People, Israel, His Land, and Jerusalem, the City of His Name. May He open their eyes and ears, reveal what is hidden, give them hearts that seek to know, honor, and walk in obedient trust with, Him. May the people of Israel have wisdom, courage, might, and victory over their many enemies, within and without. And may His beloved people, recognize their sins and the error of their ways, turn to the Lord with repentant hearts; looking to Him and not themselves (or others) for salvation and wisdom, and grow to love the Lord their G-d with all their hearts, souls, and strengths. Amen
I perhaps should have made it clearer in my response: the author deserves great praise for recognizing something many/most don't or won't - the Palestine Cause is not, nor was it ever, about helping Palestinians; but about creating a Palestine. Those supporting the cause have never seen fit to examine why on earth Palestine would look any different than the worst possible combination of failed economy Lebanon, collapsed state Syria, military junta Egypt, or foreign-occupied Jordan; and how Palestinians would benefit in any way from such a state.
Because ultimately, the Palestine Cause is about denying Jews' rights and the sovereignty to preserve those rights (Israel); it is fundamentally antisemitic.
Thus my argument that trying to placate Nazis doesn't work, as it only whets their appetite to demand more.
I agree. I honestly believe that Israel has no right to give away or sell for their safety, any part of the land set apart for them by the Gd of Israel. This land is His land and given specifically to the Jewish people for His own purposes
I grew up in Jerusalem, which has a large population of Arabs and Palestinians who, when I lived there in the ’90s, were vehemently against a two-state solution. They saw most of that population as a burden and used to call them the ‘welfare community.’
How can Israel ever sit down and make arrangements with people whose only mission is to devour and destroy? What baffles me most is the ignorance of the world, especially after October 7. Take off the rose colored glasses, look around, it will never happen.
In 1997, when I was 20 years old, I went to Israel and visited some family there. I immediately saw the true intentions of the Palestinian Arabs. It didn't take any special skills, it was plainly obvious. I was baffled that Israelis minimized the intentions and the threat even back then.
I always acknowledged the inherent antisemitism in the Western countries back in the 90s even when the Jewish communities that were not orthodox believed we humans lived in brand new world where antisemitism didn't exist anymore.
But deep down, I never acknowledged the utter contempt that the cultures of the Western countries and I suppose the Arabs as well in majority have for the Jewish people. Deep down I still believed, unbeknownst to myself, that there was some consideration.
And it wasn't even the family tragedies, for example, the fact that my father's first cousin and his aunt who were Christian were killed by the Nazis, or the events post Oct 7, that convinced me. It was something that eventually I had to face.
You won't be baffled anymore if you reckon with the utter contempt for the Jewish people that is found in most countries. It's not rose colored glasses, as you put it.
Displacement is indeed the proper remedy for any who cannot commit to coexisting in peace. By attempting genocide; by ongoing terrorist attacks and incitement, they forfeit claims to land.....
Ceding territory is a failed strategy. Barak's unilateral withdrawal from southern Lebanon in 2000 was a proximate cause of the Second Intifada and empowered Hezbollah to invade in 2006 and then to attack on Oct 8th.
Sharon's unilateral withdrawal in 2006 led to the Hamas takeover and the five (?) wars since.
Future invasions or missiles fired from the West Bank and Gaza - now under Jordanian and Egyptian sovereignty according to your plan - would risk the peace treaties. Israel couldn't invade Egyptian Gaza without risking all-out war with Egypt.
Israel must hold the strategic high ground on all sides of it's core population centers.
They had their chance with Gaza, we pulled out, left them the keys, access to electricity, and work in Israel.
Just two months before the carnage on 10.7.2023 - in the month of August 2023, 58,605 gazans entered and exited Israel through the Erez Crossing (Israeli controlled). Whereas the gazans entering Egypt in the month of August 2023 numbered 19, 608 through the Egypt controlled Raffa crossing.
Israelis living in the Gaza envelope on the kibbutzim and surrounding towns assisted many gazans, in numerous ways - they were either murdered or kidnapped on October 7, 2023 by hamas and civilians from gaza.
IMHO the 2 state solution should be long off the table.
Josh, I have to disagree with you on this one. While I appreciate the fact that all ideas should see the light of day, should be explored, and be critiqued, I have a hard time thinking of many good things that can come of this idea. Too many moving parts, too many actors who do not have the survival of Israel or the Jews as, at least, one of their goals, too many crocodiles in the weeds. May I suggest a book from about 10 years ago by Caroline Glick titled, "The One State Solution." My sentiments align more with her ideas. Having said that, thanks for advancing the conversation.
My proposal is that Israel keeps Judea and Samaria, takes back Gaza and the Arabs of those areas are relocated. Jordan and Egypt don't need to be given those territories, they can simply take the residents into their already large lands. Why is it necessary that they remain living where they are?
A very well-written piece, but I need to ask you this:
What motivation would the Hashemite monarchy ever have for integration even more Palestinians into their State? It would be the definite end of their power as the State would be overwhelmingly Palestinian.
The fact that any solution would put an "end to the Palestinian cause" is the reason there has never been a solution. The Palestinian cause is the extermination of Israel and all its Jews. The problem IS the Palestinian cause.
Additionally, your solution involving Jordan and Egypt would be ideal but is an absolute non starter. First neither will ever agree to it. It's existential for them, particularly Jordan. Egypt could keep the Palestinians locked up in Gaza. Jordan would have a problem dealing with it. But importantly, Israel can NEVER hand over security on its border to transactionally friendly Arab states. This smacks of the same theory by which Israel under Oslo gave the PLO the responsibility of handling Hamas.
The two state solution is indeed dead, hopefully, but with Jews you never know. Other than that, your proposal suffers from the same faults as others that place a solution to the conflict in the hands of others. Israel signed the Oslo Accords and then disengaged from Gaza, two major blunders done with skullduggery that have led to the current disastrous state. The solution lies in Israeli hands alone, not in dragging in hostile partners like Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, the EU and who knows what future US administration. Which means Israel has to destroy both Hamas and the Palestinian Authority, annex Gaza, Judea and Samaria, flood these areas with Jews and put these areas under military-civilian Israeli control. The Palestinians who remain there will have no voting rights. Their mosques will be closed as centres of incendiary incitement. Their kids will learn in Hebrew from books and curricula devised by Israeli educators. They will receive no international aid, but work for a living. Any disturbances of public order will be met with severe punishment: incarceration, destruction of communities from which criminals come, etc. This regime will last until Palestinians prove themselves capable of behaving, at which point they can run some municipal services. And of course they will be allowed to leave whenever they want to for parts abroad. Call it a modified form of the Kuwaiti solution, when Kuwait got rid of 350,000 Palestinians for dancing in the streets when Saddam invaded the country. Time for Israelis to wake up and smell the coffee.
Wonderful essay Joshua.......I like your proposal, but after almost 80 years of terrorism, murderers, kidnappers.....it would be great to have these " Palestinians " AS FAR AS POSSIBLE........SHABAT SHALOM
Jordan officially gave up their claim to Judea & Samaria in the Oslo Accords. Instead of giving them that land, I think all the non-Israeli residents should be moved to Jordan. Same with Gazans and Egypt. These people lost the right to their own states and their own land when they’ve waged an endless multi-century war against the Jews and have continually lost.
"That’s why people must see this conflict for what it is: a Jewish-antisemitic battle, not an Israeli-Palestinian one." Well said.
We need to understand that the entirety of the Palestine Cause isn't about aiding Palestinians, but about getting rid of Israel and putting Jews back in their "proper" bottom-class dhimmi place.
But your suggestion has two primary flaws.
The smaller flaw is that it's extremely problematic for Israel's security. Where did Hamas get all its materiel from, if not smuggled in through Egypt? Why would an Egyptian protectorate be any less susceptible to Hamas repeating Oct. 7th over again?
The security challenges are even greater in Judea and Samaria. Can Israel afford to cede control of the mountains overlooking much of undisputed Israel to the wallpapered boiling pot that is Jordan? Iran already successfully smuggles arms into Judea and Samaria via Jordan and the Jordanian border; a Jordanian protectorate would do the same on steroids.
But the larger flaw: once we understand that the Palestine Cause is antisemitic to its core, then any concessions Israel makes to that cause are a normalization of antisemitism. Giving over Gaza, and Judea and Samaria, with their rich Jewish history, to countries that are nominally at peace with Israel, but are no less antisemitic than Palestinians themselves, means accepting that an antisemitic population must be placated instead of denied.
The only solution is to force Palestinians to make a choice: accept Israeli sovereignty and give up the fundamental and societal antisemitism of the Palestine Cause, or be condemned to exile somewhere around the world.
Joshua deserves much credit for expressing his views, knowing they would be a lightning rod for dissent.
You have articulated very good points in opposition, and others have as well. I expect this will continue, at least for a several days, and it will be interesting to see if some form of consensus develops. In the meantime, I applaud Josh’s intent, and his courage in expressing his views without equivocation, but also disagree with him on the viability of his proposed ‘solution’ to these intractable issues.
May G-d Almighty continue to bless, guide, and protect His People, Israel, His Land, and Jerusalem, the City of His Name. May He open their eyes and ears, reveal what is hidden, give them hearts that seek to know, honor, and walk in obedient trust with, Him. May the people of Israel have wisdom, courage, might, and victory over their many enemies, within and without. And may His beloved people, recognize their sins and the error of their ways, turn to the Lord with repentant hearts; looking to Him and not themselves (or others) for salvation and wisdom, and grow to love the Lord their G-d with all their hearts, souls, and strengths. Amen
I perhaps should have made it clearer in my response: the author deserves great praise for recognizing something many/most don't or won't - the Palestine Cause is not, nor was it ever, about helping Palestinians; but about creating a Palestine. Those supporting the cause have never seen fit to examine why on earth Palestine would look any different than the worst possible combination of failed economy Lebanon, collapsed state Syria, military junta Egypt, or foreign-occupied Jordan; and how Palestinians would benefit in any way from such a state.
Because ultimately, the Palestine Cause is about denying Jews' rights and the sovereignty to preserve those rights (Israel); it is fundamentally antisemitic.
Thus my argument that trying to placate Nazis doesn't work, as it only whets their appetite to demand more.
I agree. I honestly believe that Israel has no right to give away or sell for their safety, any part of the land set apart for them by the Gd of Israel. This land is His land and given specifically to the Jewish people for His own purposes
I grew up in Jerusalem, which has a large population of Arabs and Palestinians who, when I lived there in the ’90s, were vehemently against a two-state solution. They saw most of that population as a burden and used to call them the ‘welfare community.’
How can Israel ever sit down and make arrangements with people whose only mission is to devour and destroy? What baffles me most is the ignorance of the world, especially after October 7. Take off the rose colored glasses, look around, it will never happen.
I'm 48 years old.
In 1997, when I was 20 years old, I went to Israel and visited some family there. I immediately saw the true intentions of the Palestinian Arabs. It didn't take any special skills, it was plainly obvious. I was baffled that Israelis minimized the intentions and the threat even back then.
I always acknowledged the inherent antisemitism in the Western countries back in the 90s even when the Jewish communities that were not orthodox believed we humans lived in brand new world where antisemitism didn't exist anymore.
But deep down, I never acknowledged the utter contempt that the cultures of the Western countries and I suppose the Arabs as well in majority have for the Jewish people. Deep down I still believed, unbeknownst to myself, that there was some consideration.
And it wasn't even the family tragedies, for example, the fact that my father's first cousin and his aunt who were Christian were killed by the Nazis, or the events post Oct 7, that convinced me. It was something that eventually I had to face.
You won't be baffled anymore if you reckon with the utter contempt for the Jewish people that is found in most countries. It's not rose colored glasses, as you put it.
Displacement is indeed the proper remedy for any who cannot commit to coexisting in peace. By attempting genocide; by ongoing terrorist attacks and incitement, they forfeit claims to land.....
Ceding territory is a failed strategy. Barak's unilateral withdrawal from southern Lebanon in 2000 was a proximate cause of the Second Intifada and empowered Hezbollah to invade in 2006 and then to attack on Oct 8th.
Sharon's unilateral withdrawal in 2006 led to the Hamas takeover and the five (?) wars since.
Future invasions or missiles fired from the West Bank and Gaza - now under Jordanian and Egyptian sovereignty according to your plan - would risk the peace treaties. Israel couldn't invade Egyptian Gaza without risking all-out war with Egypt.
Israel must hold the strategic high ground on all sides of it's core population centers.
shabbat shalom Joshua - well stated and cited.
They had their chance with Gaza, we pulled out, left them the keys, access to electricity, and work in Israel.
Just two months before the carnage on 10.7.2023 - in the month of August 2023, 58,605 gazans entered and exited Israel through the Erez Crossing (Israeli controlled). Whereas the gazans entering Egypt in the month of August 2023 numbered 19, 608 through the Egypt controlled Raffa crossing.
Israelis living in the Gaza envelope on the kibbutzim and surrounding towns assisted many gazans, in numerous ways - they were either murdered or kidnapped on October 7, 2023 by hamas and civilians from gaza.
IMHO the 2 state solution should be long off the table.
Josh, I have to disagree with you on this one. While I appreciate the fact that all ideas should see the light of day, should be explored, and be critiqued, I have a hard time thinking of many good things that can come of this idea. Too many moving parts, too many actors who do not have the survival of Israel or the Jews as, at least, one of their goals, too many crocodiles in the weeds. May I suggest a book from about 10 years ago by Caroline Glick titled, "The One State Solution." My sentiments align more with her ideas. Having said that, thanks for advancing the conversation.
Land for peace…again…? Has never worked.
Agree. Hasn't Israel given enough land back and it still isn't enough for them.
My proposal is that Israel keeps Judea and Samaria, takes back Gaza and the Arabs of those areas are relocated. Jordan and Egypt don't need to be given those territories, they can simply take the residents into their already large lands. Why is it necessary that they remain living where they are?
A very well-written piece, but I need to ask you this:
What motivation would the Hashemite monarchy ever have for integration even more Palestinians into their State? It would be the definite end of their power as the State would be overwhelmingly Palestinian.
It was always dead, as only deluded and or demented Leftists believed in it and still do.
The fact that any solution would put an "end to the Palestinian cause" is the reason there has never been a solution. The Palestinian cause is the extermination of Israel and all its Jews. The problem IS the Palestinian cause.
Additionally, your solution involving Jordan and Egypt would be ideal but is an absolute non starter. First neither will ever agree to it. It's existential for them, particularly Jordan. Egypt could keep the Palestinians locked up in Gaza. Jordan would have a problem dealing with it. But importantly, Israel can NEVER hand over security on its border to transactionally friendly Arab states. This smacks of the same theory by which Israel under Oslo gave the PLO the responsibility of handling Hamas.
The two state solution is indeed dead, hopefully, but with Jews you never know. Other than that, your proposal suffers from the same faults as others that place a solution to the conflict in the hands of others. Israel signed the Oslo Accords and then disengaged from Gaza, two major blunders done with skullduggery that have led to the current disastrous state. The solution lies in Israeli hands alone, not in dragging in hostile partners like Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, the EU and who knows what future US administration. Which means Israel has to destroy both Hamas and the Palestinian Authority, annex Gaza, Judea and Samaria, flood these areas with Jews and put these areas under military-civilian Israeli control. The Palestinians who remain there will have no voting rights. Their mosques will be closed as centres of incendiary incitement. Their kids will learn in Hebrew from books and curricula devised by Israeli educators. They will receive no international aid, but work for a living. Any disturbances of public order will be met with severe punishment: incarceration, destruction of communities from which criminals come, etc. This regime will last until Palestinians prove themselves capable of behaving, at which point they can run some municipal services. And of course they will be allowed to leave whenever they want to for parts abroad. Call it a modified form of the Kuwaiti solution, when Kuwait got rid of 350,000 Palestinians for dancing in the streets when Saddam invaded the country. Time for Israelis to wake up and smell the coffee.
Wonderful essay Joshua.......I like your proposal, but after almost 80 years of terrorism, murderers, kidnappers.....it would be great to have these " Palestinians " AS FAR AS POSSIBLE........SHABAT SHALOM
No, No, and No.
No indefensible suicide borders and further carving up of the tiny Jewish state.
No declaring Jews don’t merit sovereignty in the birthplace of the Jewish people.
No appeasement of an intractable, barbaric, sadistic enemy who lives to repeat 10.7 again and again.
Take back Gaza, Samaria & Judea!!!
Jordan officially gave up their claim to Judea & Samaria in the Oslo Accords. Instead of giving them that land, I think all the non-Israeli residents should be moved to Jordan. Same with Gazans and Egypt. These people lost the right to their own states and their own land when they’ve waged an endless multi-century war against the Jews and have continually lost.