Oxford Historian Professor Cecil Roth (1899-1970) concludes his "A History of the Jews," with the following sobering observation:
"Our survey of three and a half millennia of Jewish history is closed. But the story which we have set ourselves to tell is unending. Today, the Jewish people has in it still those elements of strength and endurance which enabled it to surmount all the crises of its past, surviving thus the most powerful empires of antiquity.
Throughout our history there have been weaker elements who have shirked the sacrifices which Judaism entailed. They have been swallowed, long since, in the great majority; only the more stalwart have carried on the traditions of their ancestors and can now look back with pride upon their superb heritage. Are we to be numbered with the weak majority, or with the stalwart minority? It is for ourselves to decide."
This is a beautiful vision that includes what if the next temple never falls. It does seriously bother me that some of our tribe wants to reinstate animal sacrifices. That would be horrific.
The Christian split happened well before the destruction od the Temple. It was the Apostle Paul who is responsible for the spreading of Christianity beyond the Jews of Judea and that is what led to the growth of Christianity, its spread among the pagan population. I doubt a single Jew became a Christian because the Temple was destroyed in 70 CE.
Maybe. I think if the Temple had stood the split could have been reversible or minimized. But of course with every maybe there is a maybe not.
I do think that there would likely be several hundred million Jews if we had our own country the whole time, and that Christianity and Islam would both be smaller than they are.
I dont think so because Judaism has never been proseletyzing and the others obviously are. Christianity was the way into monotheism for the gentile world.
A lot of that was due to persecution, and I think that if the Temple had been standing there would have been a lot less. Just as one example, it would have been hard to say that G-D abandoned the Jews and the proof is the destruction of the Temple.
Anyway, there is of course no way to settle a counterfactual argument.
No there isn't but I will repeat my original point. Jews did not leave Judaism and become Christian after the Temple was destroyed. In fact the growth of Christianity was entirely do to the intense effort to convert gentiles in the Roman Empire.
This is one of the best essays I've read in a very long time. Thank you for allowing my imagination to wander to a place where a life enmeshed in Torah living is a natural occurrence. This really could be the seminal essay for "Future of Jewish" as this paints a vision for us all to strive for.
Jewish power and Jewish compassion must co-exist. The idea that Jerusalem could become (could have become) a Jewish Vatican is delicious to contemplate. Meanwhile עם ישראל חי. Our enemies are at our gates. Thank you Josh! ⭐
"There would have been no ghettoization, no Inquisition, no Dreyfus Affair, no Holocaust." Fine sentiments, however, internal divisions led to the total destruction of Old Israel in 70 AD. I'd not be surprised if that wasn't the reason many civilizations throughout history fell. Israel has choices, either to be resolute in unity or to become another Jewish disaster as mentioned often in the Old Testament when the ancient Hebrews became corrupt and willful. Choose wisely, Éretz Yisra'él.
Could've been the mood i was in, but i felt a visceral sadness reading this. As a 2nd generation Shoah survivor, i am an indirect witness to the horrific suffering of my ancestors. There were progoms and excommunications before that, but it took the Nazis to "mastermind" the near annihalation of our People. No doubt there are those who'll argue, alluding in part to the Temple's destruction, that this may've taken another direction had Jews been more united. And now we have the fallout of the 7th of October massacre, and how we could've let this happen. Sad indeed.
Indeed if the Temple had not burned and Jerusalem not fallen to the Romans the history of the world would have fundamentally changed. But I am thinking that the history of Judaism afterwards would have been closer to that of the the Catholic Church with a Reformation and Counter Reformation and much Jewish blood spilled to get there.
What moves me most, perhaps, about Talmud is the constant reminder to avoid sinat chinam, both in specific aggadot about how dangerous such fallings out are to the Rabbis individually and in the constant demonstration of how to argue well and honestly: he recording of conversations and arguments, the drawing out of logic with theoretical, the careful citation of sources, the frequent inclusion of differing opinions in the beraitas. The willingness to leave final answers to a distant future-- perhaps all of this was shaped by their direct experience with sinat hinam and destruction?
I pray daily that the Jews throughout the world will receive Jesus Christ as their Messiah and King. Many Jews are looking for the Messiah to come, but surely it is time to examine the claims of Jesus Christ to be that Messiah? God in His mercy and grace has preserved the Jewish people for the last 2 000 years, when any other nation would have disappeared from History. He did this because He is not finished with the Jewish people. The reason the Temple was destroyed and the animal sacrifices stopped was because there was no more need for them. Jesus Christ, the perfect Lamb of God, gave Himself to be the perfect, complete and final sacrifice for sin, and anyone, Jew or Gentile, who places his or her faith in Him is cleansed from sin and restored to a right relationship with God our Heavenly Father. The first Christians were all Jews. Thousands came to faith in Christ long before 70 A.D. I pray also that the hostages, in their terrible situation, will find their Messiah and be saved for all eternity. I believe the Jews will survive, because God Himself sustains them, and in His time He will bring them to Him, and He will destroy all their enemies, the greatest being Satan himself, the common enemy of all mankind.
We are now Strong and can Look to the Future once again. A People who produces the likes of Albert Einstein and Johnny Von Neumann, and the many thousands of Jewish Technicians and top Scientists, is the winner. And we continue to produce them too. So, with the Twin Absolutes of Logical Reason, and Eternal Faith, The Jewish People and Israel will absolutely continue to win! Thus together we now stride forward to the Future! Israel Am Chai.
That would have been great, especially because the number of Jews in the world could have been much larger than it is now, and numbers do matter. On the other hand, the nation would have had to withstand attacks by Arab, Turkish and other Muslim kings. Much bigger kingdoms, in North India, were conquered because they were not used to such levels of aggression. But as a historian friend of mine used to say, In history there are no if's. In literature, of course, there are.
Or may have happened as a branch of Judaism. The first temple was built in 1200 BCE and destroyed in 586 BCE. Had it not been destroyed it would have existed and thrived for another 1000 years until the time of Muhammad. Mind boggling ideas.
Today's Choice: https://substack.com/@thinktorah/note/c-97714323
Oxford Historian Professor Cecil Roth (1899-1970) concludes his "A History of the Jews," with the following sobering observation:
"Our survey of three and a half millennia of Jewish history is closed. But the story which we have set ourselves to tell is unending. Today, the Jewish people has in it still those elements of strength and endurance which enabled it to surmount all the crises of its past, surviving thus the most powerful empires of antiquity.
Throughout our history there have been weaker elements who have shirked the sacrifices which Judaism entailed. They have been swallowed, long since, in the great majority; only the more stalwart have carried on the traditions of their ancestors and can now look back with pride upon their superb heritage. Are we to be numbered with the weak majority, or with the stalwart minority? It is for ourselves to decide."
(Oxford University: Shocken Books, 1961) page 423
This is a beautiful vision that includes what if the next temple never falls. It does seriously bother me that some of our tribe wants to reinstate animal sacrifices. That would be horrific.
Didn't know that. Yes, it would be horrific. Hindus have successfully gotten rid of most of it and the few hold-outs will soon stop.
The Christian split happened well before the destruction od the Temple. It was the Apostle Paul who is responsible for the spreading of Christianity beyond the Jews of Judea and that is what led to the growth of Christianity, its spread among the pagan population. I doubt a single Jew became a Christian because the Temple was destroyed in 70 CE.
Maybe. I think if the Temple had stood the split could have been reversible or minimized. But of course with every maybe there is a maybe not.
I do think that there would likely be several hundred million Jews if we had our own country the whole time, and that Christianity and Islam would both be smaller than they are.
I dont think so because Judaism has never been proseletyzing and the others obviously are. Christianity was the way into monotheism for the gentile world.
A lot of that was due to persecution, and I think that if the Temple had been standing there would have been a lot less. Just as one example, it would have been hard to say that G-D abandoned the Jews and the proof is the destruction of the Temple.
Anyway, there is of course no way to settle a counterfactual argument.
No there isn't but I will repeat my original point. Jews did not leave Judaism and become Christian after the Temple was destroyed. In fact the growth of Christianity was entirely do to the intense effort to convert gentiles in the Roman Empire.
A single Jew besides Paul?
Read what I wrote.
This is one of the best essays I've read in a very long time. Thank you for allowing my imagination to wander to a place where a life enmeshed in Torah living is a natural occurrence. This really could be the seminal essay for "Future of Jewish" as this paints a vision for us all to strive for.
Jewish power and Jewish compassion must co-exist. The idea that Jerusalem could become (could have become) a Jewish Vatican is delicious to contemplate. Meanwhile עם ישראל חי. Our enemies are at our gates. Thank you Josh! ⭐
"There would have been no ghettoization, no Inquisition, no Dreyfus Affair, no Holocaust." Fine sentiments, however, internal divisions led to the total destruction of Old Israel in 70 AD. I'd not be surprised if that wasn't the reason many civilizations throughout history fell. Israel has choices, either to be resolute in unity or to become another Jewish disaster as mentioned often in the Old Testament when the ancient Hebrews became corrupt and willful. Choose wisely, Éretz Yisra'él.
This sounds like heaven! Where do I sign up?
Could've been the mood i was in, but i felt a visceral sadness reading this. As a 2nd generation Shoah survivor, i am an indirect witness to the horrific suffering of my ancestors. There were progoms and excommunications before that, but it took the Nazis to "mastermind" the near annihalation of our People. No doubt there are those who'll argue, alluding in part to the Temple's destruction, that this may've taken another direction had Jews been more united. And now we have the fallout of the 7th of October massacre, and how we could've let this happen. Sad indeed.
"What if?", indeed.
Indeed if the Temple had not burned and Jerusalem not fallen to the Romans the history of the world would have fundamentally changed. But I am thinking that the history of Judaism afterwards would have been closer to that of the the Catholic Church with a Reformation and Counter Reformation and much Jewish blood spilled to get there.
What moves me most, perhaps, about Talmud is the constant reminder to avoid sinat chinam, both in specific aggadot about how dangerous such fallings out are to the Rabbis individually and in the constant demonstration of how to argue well and honestly: he recording of conversations and arguments, the drawing out of logic with theoretical, the careful citation of sources, the frequent inclusion of differing opinions in the beraitas. The willingness to leave final answers to a distant future-- perhaps all of this was shaped by their direct experience with sinat hinam and destruction?
I pray daily that the Jews throughout the world will receive Jesus Christ as their Messiah and King. Many Jews are looking for the Messiah to come, but surely it is time to examine the claims of Jesus Christ to be that Messiah? God in His mercy and grace has preserved the Jewish people for the last 2 000 years, when any other nation would have disappeared from History. He did this because He is not finished with the Jewish people. The reason the Temple was destroyed and the animal sacrifices stopped was because there was no more need for them. Jesus Christ, the perfect Lamb of God, gave Himself to be the perfect, complete and final sacrifice for sin, and anyone, Jew or Gentile, who places his or her faith in Him is cleansed from sin and restored to a right relationship with God our Heavenly Father. The first Christians were all Jews. Thousands came to faith in Christ long before 70 A.D. I pray also that the hostages, in their terrible situation, will find their Messiah and be saved for all eternity. I believe the Jews will survive, because God Himself sustains them, and in His time He will bring them to Him, and He will destroy all their enemies, the greatest being Satan himself, the common enemy of all mankind.
Is there anyway for guest writers to be featured on Future of Jewish?
We are now Strong and can Look to the Future once again. A People who produces the likes of Albert Einstein and Johnny Von Neumann, and the many thousands of Jewish Technicians and top Scientists, is the winner. And we continue to produce them too. So, with the Twin Absolutes of Logical Reason, and Eternal Faith, The Jewish People and Israel will absolutely continue to win! Thus together we now stride forward to the Future! Israel Am Chai.
That would have been great, especially because the number of Jews in the world could have been much larger than it is now, and numbers do matter. On the other hand, the nation would have had to withstand attacks by Arab, Turkish and other Muslim kings. Much bigger kingdoms, in North India, were conquered because they were not used to such levels of aggression. But as a historian friend of mine used to say, In history there are no if's. In literature, of course, there are.
Islam may have never happened.
There simply would have been no need for another monotheist religion. Damn, I'm on the wrong astral plane.
Or may have happened as a branch of Judaism. The first temple was built in 1200 BCE and destroyed in 586 BCE. Had it not been destroyed it would have existed and thrived for another 1000 years until the time of Muhammad. Mind boggling ideas.