Of the three great monotheistic faiths, Judaism is the oldest, the smallest, and the original, followed by Christianity in its various denominations, then Islam in its denominations. What sets Judaism apart is Jews feel no need to proselytize, to convert others, to insist the Jewish path is the only path to Hashem and to the afterlife. The Torah and Talmud make no mention of Christianity or Islam, say nothing negative about these latter faiths, and certainly do not state among its doctrines that only those who are Jewish can know Hashem. This does not make Judaism superior, but helps to explain why Jews have suffered so terribly over the centuries by those who pronounce they are doing so in the name of Christianity or the name of Islam. Jews have not persecutied Christians or Muslims for the sake of Judaism, the notion is absurd. But as the devil despised and tormented Job for his faith in Hashem despite calamities, so too does the devil despise and torment the Jewish people for our faith in Hashem despite calamities. So one must question, when they deride and torment Jews, are they not doing the work of the devil, the great deceiver?
One of my adventures in understanding Judaism was reading Job with Jews in mind, over the centuries, and the answer God gave him at the end. The Leviathan image to me signifies Satan. Satan, hardship, things that happen that challenge our assumptions, puncture the pride of people who think they have God all figured out, that He fits in their pocket and answers to them. Job realizes in the end that God understand him, but that he does not fully understand God. Judaism knows its not their job to understand God but to serve Him, no matter what.
Astute observation and insights! Though made in G-d's image, man is incapable of fully understanding Hashem. It may seem superficial but when younger I became interested in Kabbalah, which is esoteric and confusing in many respects. I purchased a twelve cassette volume of 30 minute lectures by a rabbi about Kabbalah. A few lessons resonated, one especially. It taught that the wisest man can only understand and experience 3% of the world, so it is foolish to conclude we have all the answers and insights. This lesson keeps one humble and makes it easier to accept the inevitable tragedies and sadness that sometimes enters into our lives.
Regarding the observations "Are our religions actually tribal warriors who cannot countenance the salvation of anyone but us? Do we see other religious groups as competitors, or as children of God who speak a different language? Did not one Creator make us all? Can we identify a true religion that unites a believer with the God who created all of us? Can we distinguish that from a cult that manufactures hatred and division? Do we believe our religion is superior to all others? Or can we see the gifts and beauties of the Holy Spirit in people who worship God differently?"
Any religion that espouses the 4 Theologies: Fulfillment, Replacement, Successionism, and Supremacist Theology needs the spiritual strength to face this legacy, repudiate it in principle, and put into practice their negation. You have astutely suggested most of the means do undo these spiritual sins in the paragraph just cited.
"Our reaction to God’s planting of Israel in your own land reveals our attitude not just towards Israel, but towards your God."
Tried to explain to a Morman acquaintance that God is not a Jewish God but a Universal Creator who just has an agreement with us. Does not mean that the Ens does not have agreements and expectations of other peoples.
Contrary to how the Arabs and their sympathizers view the 1917 Balfour Declaration, it was not a granting of land to the Jews but a recognition of the land as the Jews' national homeland.
"a papal document that announced, in front of God and everybody, that you Jews did not have to convert to Christianity to be saved."
THis is a Christocentric view of Judaism. We do not have to be saved as we are not born sinners or lost. What is expected of us is to do what HaShem asked of us — in one nutshell, observe the 10 Commandments, in another, as Hillel the Elder (d 10 CE) said to a student who wanted the entire Torah to be explained while he stood on one foot, "What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation of this—go and study it!"
"It is impossible for us to stomach the possibility that perhaps you know our Jesus better than we do, follow him more authentically than we do, and study his Scripture and chant the prayers that our Church has completely forgotten."
It is simpler for us. You know the bumper sticker that says "My God's father was a carpenter", for us we say God is the father of the carpenter — and everyone else, thus our Hebrew expression we were created "B'tzelem Hashem," in the likeness (not image. The word for image appears in the phrase "Image of God" where the word for graven image is "pesel." is (See in Exod 20:3 https://mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0220.htm?6c763e848c). Ultimately, it is enough for us to pray to the God your God prayed to. How can one go wrong with that!
Pardon the pun, but your analysis of the Jews for Jesus movement, and its offshoot, Messianic Judaism nailed it.
"“Cursed is he who does the work of the LORD deceitfully” (Jeremiah 48:10 - New King James Version)"
Interestingly the Hebrew English version of Jeremiah 48:10 reads "Cursed be he that doeth the work of the LORD with a slack hand, and cursed be he that keepeth back his sword from blood." Quite different.
To Jewish ears, the expression "You already have the God we know as Jesus" is a bit of a contradiction in terms because Jesus was a mortal (he died. Didn't matter that he supposedly came back; he still died) while God is immortal.
"Our reaction to you is our reaction to your God."
He is not our God, As Creator of the \Universe, He is the God of all.
"God created us with an insatiable desire to learn, to master, to study, to explain, to understand, and with that drive He gives us infinite subject material, Himself."
The God we know as Jesus is not a scrawny little guy flying around in space but the Risen One filling all space and time. Like all good Jews Jesus is transparent, when we look at his life and character we see the same God who forgive you and loves you. He does not share his glory with another.
The spiritual space we come from is so vastly different from the one you were born into that while an incarnate God is impossible and obscene to you, it is necessary and life giving to us. That One God could create so many different soul types and reveal himself to all of them in ways that make perfect sense to each one, but are mud and mystery to all the others, kind of boggles the mind.
Yet we discount each others experiences with God and call them idolatry or depravity or perdition rather than listen in wonder at what the Creator has done in the other’s life through a dead rabbi from Galilee. We dehumanize each other with our conviction that everybody sees God the same way we see God, and it leads to tragedy, as you know.
To quote Jules Isaac, Antisemitism would be able to bloom and diversify in the eras to come, it found its finished model there in the fourth century. Under the influence of the Fathers of the Church, notably Saint John Chrysostom, imperial legislation tended to alter to the detriment of the Jews, to take on even the tone of the anti-Jewish polemic. Material violence followed: synagogues were confiscated and burned, sometimes at the instigation of ecclesiastic authorities; and when the emperor wanted to deal severely with these acts in protection of public order and of a noble tradition of equity, Saint Ambrose threatened him with excommunication.
“Among the Christian masses – the more malleable they tended to grow, the more ignorant, more crude, more mixed with barbarians – everything combined to mold this anti-Jewish mentality, permeated with a sacred horror of “the deicidal people.” As the admirable Christian liturgy, so persuasively efficacious, took form, the hymns and prayers, the readings and sermons insistently recalled “the odious crime perpetrated by the Jews.” The majesty of the setting, the solemnity of the setting, the beauty of the words and voices helped incise in the hearts of the faithful sentiments that would nevermore be blotted out, which would be transmitted from century to century and would ultimately aggregate, to form what could be called “the Christian consciousness.” #_ftn1
#_ftnref1 Jules Isaac, Jesus and Israel, pp. 242-3.
I’m so glad they give us so much space to communicate on this forum, unlike X where you get 280 characters and that’s it.
Thank you for your thoughtful response. Good familiarity with at least one Father of the Church and a one of the four original Doctors of the Church.
A few observations if I may:
we see the same God who forgive you and loves you”
Christianity begins with the assumption that the individual is born in sin and therefore needs divine forgiveness at birth. Judaism does not subscribe to Original Sin. Yes, Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, but that does not mean mankind is now born cursed.
In Judaism, one cannot be considered to have committed a sin if one is unaware that the deed is sinful. It may be wrong but not sinful. Setting a plate of freshly baked chocolate chip cookies in front of a toddler, then telling the child not to eat, leaving the room, and letting the older brother come in knowing it will coax the child to eat absolves the child of any disobedience to the parent’s wishes. For us, everyone is born in innocence with no ability to accept responsibility for their actions until they attain some level of mature awareness.
Even more blatant in the Adam-Eve story is that God placed the knowledge of good and evil in the fruit of the tree. This knowledge was not in Adam or Eve, so they could not know they were doing wrong. There is even more telling evidence. God lured Eve by placing the fruit not only in the garden but in the centre of the garden, that point at which all paths must cross. He also entrapped them when the serpent, the most cunning of creatures created by God and allowed by Him to be in the garden in the first place, used its powers of persuasion to convince Eve it was okay to eat. She never stood a chance.
“it is necessary and life giving to us. That One God could create so many different soul types and reveal himself to all of them in ways that make perfect sense to each one, but are mud and mystery to all the others“
Very nice sentiment but is problematic for two reasons. Firstly, it is heretical because it blatantly violates Christian Trinitarian doctrine.
On that point, one wonders how Christians can claim to be monotheists when they believe not in monotheism's central tenet of a one, indivisible God but rather three distinct gods. Doesn't this place them squarely in the camp of polytheism?
Secondly, while the universalist sentiment is laudable, echoing the idea of good will towards all men (and women), the idea that Jesus died for the sins of all (wo)men casts him as one of myths world saviors (for fuller detail check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World%27s_Sixteen_Crucified_Savior). However, he only saves if one believe in him, reducing him to a cult savior rather than a world savior.
The observation “an incarnate God is impossible and obscene to you” is a bit of a misrepresentation of our actual position. Worse, it even promotes anti-Jewish prejudice. There is no obscenity to believing as you do. Be that as it may, in keeping with the 10 Commandments, which even Christians say is divine ordinance, any violation of the absolute oneness of God is idolatry per Exod 20:3-4. Worshiping a man as a god is therefore a form of idolatry.
“anti-Jewish mentality, permeated with a sacred horror of “the deicidal people.”
The religious term is “Christ killers.” Raises and interesting question. If the Jews had not supposedly killed Jesus — supposedly, as there is no evidence for that claim — he would not have been able to have died for men’s sins but rather he would have died of old age. In that case, who would save Christians from themselves?
"Reducing him to a cult savior rather than a world savior" is exactly the point I am making in this article. The drive to control access to God is central in fundamentalism in all religions. Cain killed Abel because Abel had a relationship with God that Cain did not think he deserved.
There seems to be collective misreading and therefrom misunderstanding by all religious communities about what was taking place in the Cain-Abel story.
In a fit of pique. God said to Adam "cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life" Gen. 3:17 KJV. Abel offered food from the hunt, not from the field. Thus it was acceptable to God. On the other hand, Cain offered food from the harvest of his toil on the land. In other words, he was offering God tainted food and so his offering was unacceptable. It is another instance where God sets himself up to be bested. Not unusual for trickster gods of all religions.
Another interesting point overlooked by theologians is that if Adam and Eve could not be condemned for sinning because knowledge of sinning lay outside themselves, the same could not be said of Cain. Therefore the killing of his brother, done with foreknowledge that it was wrong makes his action the Original Sin. This sin dovetails with Jewish thinking that all humans were created in the likeness of God, and therefore inflicting harm on another person is attacking the likeness of God. Too bad it is a lesson humanity has not learned because it misfocused on disobedience to authority as a sin rather than on the shedding of blood.
"You done good". Not without effort and pensiveness. You get a 98.6% approval rating. The measly difference is not worth a quibble. But so ya don't lose any sleep,... I'm not 100% with your use of one word. You name it as 'galah'. Sort of, yes-ish. Maybe. The sources I look at and looked up to check give a slightly different transformation from Hebrew to English. Some words that I lazily call Hebrew are in rare occasions actually Aramaic. Anyways, you certainly did a great and gutsy rendition of the 'whole megillah'. Well done!!! And... without going into details, "I'm familiar with the territory" of your text. Well done.
I do:):) But, you ARE doing GREAT!! May I cross the great divide of the protocol of social politeness? The protocol is to NEVER say ANYTHING that may possibly be 'controversial'. I beg to differ with such protocol. I prefer to experience the difficulties of talking with unknown persons as well as with friends with a large dollop of politeness combined with an equal dollop of risk to delve into the muddy waters of ideas, issues, and spirit, et. For several years if I or if 'one' puts a Jewish topic into giggle search it is highly likely that imediately there will be mostly proselytizing videos. Many of those proseltyizers and their organizations are misleading. You have explain their planned deceptions. Well done. But here the point is that even if a Jewish person such as myself puts a Jewish term or subject into 'giggle' search I'm inudated with 'mock' Jewish sites. There are millions of bona fide Christians who know a LOT more Hebrew and a LOT more Torah than I do. But, I'm catching up. Albeit unbelievably slow and in total delight along the long path. So, Dear Merry Mary.... just in case.... I hope that you help others to learn to discern between 'mock' Jewish sites vs bona fide and IDEALLY 'orthodox' Jewish sites. We know, or at least you and I know, there ARE theological differences between bona fide Christian interpretations of Torah/Tanach/Talmudic etc texts versus bona fide 'orthodox' Jewish interpretations. Likewise even for real depth of most single Hebrew words... generally speaking of course... it is more authentic via our own Jewish 'orthodox' Rabbis and sites. NONETHLESS... your use of THAT single word 'galah' as you placed it and your excellent preliminary understand that a single word in Hebrew does have a rich and philosophical meaning that is not apparent at first glance. YOU done well!!! Thank you. In fact, I hear rumors that THE most quoted sentence. phrase, and even a SINGLE word most often quoted by the proselytizers ... is twisted for a theological purpose. That is a tiny quote from Isaiah. So in fact, a single word can cause a LOT of disharmony between those who are MUCH closer than they are distant. "theology" has a LOT to answer for. yadda yadda... Sincere Regards, Ira
I hang out on Chabad.com for real translation and all, but I just noticed those accidental common letters while trying to sound things out and it SPOKE to me. Christians assume that the exile meant Jews were rejected by God. That 2nd century consensus is still alive and still harmful. I wanted to show Christians there is another way to look at the exile, and its hidden in that word.
Thanks for this deep dive into all three religions. There is much to ponder here. As an aside, Jews-for-Jesus make my skin crawl. Just saying. Oddly, I don’t have that reaction to the dozens of Muslims (some of whom surely want me and all Jews to be dead) whom I pass on Vancouver streets every time I go out. We do tend to have strong reactions when it comes to religion, sadly. Why is that? Anyway, my strong reaction to you, Mary, is one of wishing there were more thoughtful Christians like you, and like the beautiful friends and family to whom I will forward this post. Judaism has been a huge gift to me and I can tell that Christianity has been for you. May we all go from strength to strength.
Our religion is the core of our identity. It is our connection to our Maker, and nothing could be more important to us. Sever that connection and we are brains in a body and not much more. So we get defensive and shrill about anything that attacks our religion forgetting that our religion is not GOD, but a method of communing with Him. I am fascinated by other people's methods of reaching God because I can see the Being I call Jesus and experience at the foot of the cross in so many of them - not all- but many.
Whoever wrote this article is certainly not a Christian. I don't think I've ever read such a distorted description of the Christian faith. The essence of the Christian faith is that God has reached down to us and paid for our sins in the death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, His only begotten Son. Our faith is not grounded in our good works or righteousness, but in Him and in what Her has fine for us. There is no other Name under heaven given to men whereby we must be saved other than Jesus Christ, and that applies to all of us, Jew or Gentile. Jesus came for the Jew first, and also for the rest of us. We love and worship the God Who has been so gracious to all of us, and as a Christian I honour the Jewish people for being the means whereby God's salvation came to all mankind. But there is still no other way than through the Lord Jesus Christ. I'm sorry if this offends you, but it is the truth.
It is YOUR truth and you have every right to it. But Christianity, (and any other religion) have no monopoly on the “truth”. This not accepted fact is the huge difference between Judaism and other religions. Judaism has no need or interest, in forcing people to think in any religious way, which does not fit their own soul. Most other religions do- to the world’s detriment…….
Jesus Christ is the Truth. He said, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me." John 14:6. There is only one Truth, and He is it. Sorry if this offends you.
Those of us who are more evolved know that Jesus meant his way OF BEING- through love, compassion, and forgiveness. Jews do not need Jesus- they have the God of Torah who created Jesus for the Gentiles.
No, every person since Adam has needed a sacrifice for sin. God gave the Jews the animal sacrifice system looking forward to the time when He would provide a perfect Lamb - the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ, the Jewish Messiah. He gave Himself to suffer death on our behalf, because all sin must be punished by death. (Romans 6:23) Those who accept His sacrifice are cleansed from their sins and given His righteousness, so are able to be in a relationship with God, adopted into His family as sons. Those who reject Him have to pay for their own sins by death, not only temporal but eternal, and are cut off from God for all eternity. As God said to His people, "Behold, I set before you life and death. Therefore choose life ..." (Deuteronomy 30:19) Without Christ, we have no sacrifice for sin, and have to pay that eternal debt ourselves. Thankfully, God honoured His promise to provide a perfect sacrifice for sin, and sent Jesus, Who came for the Jew first, but also for the Gentile. The Bible says that all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags. (Isaiah 64:6) We cannot save ourselves by "being good" or doing good deeds, or living by the Torah. As good as that is, we have already broken God's law. We need Jesus Christ. The ancient sacrificial system has been done away with. It is no longer needed, because it has been fulfilled in Jesus Christ, the perfect Lamb of God.
This is all Fear-mongering BULLcrap! WE are NEVER cut off permanently from God...unless we CHOOSE to be. You seriously need to read accounts of people who have had Near Death Experiences- literally thousands of these experiences describe an unconditionally loving presence - depending on the person's religion and his/her belief- that does NOT JUDGE. WE judge OURSELVES when we each have a LIFE REVIEW after death- we are shown our entire lives like pictures on a screen, and how every word and action we have directed towards others has a ripple effect in the world. We are all connected as ONE. There is NO death. The soul is merely freed from the body and learns the Truth when it goes into the Light- and the unconditionally loving presence of the Divine.
It's very sad, but there are no "good" people. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23). We are not measured by our standard of goodness, or by comparison with other people who are better or worse than we are, but by the righteous standard of God Himself. He demands absolute perfection. If a person has committed even one sin in his whole entire life, he is liable for death, because the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). That is why God in His love and mercy had to send a perfect Sacrifice for sin; actually, He paid the penalty Himself in the Person of His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ. So the answer to your question is, anybody who has not accepted Christ's sacrifice on his behalf has to pay the penalty himself, just as if I were fined for speeding and refused to accept somebody else paying my fine, I would have to pay it myself. Sin is an affront to a perfect, righteous and holy God. We take it lightly, but He does not.
You and I might disagree on certain other details Alison, but I wouldn’t go so far as to label the author ‘not a Christian’. She may, in fact be, but also be misguided and seriously misrepresenting the truth in a number of areas, including historical Evangelicalism. What is very clear, however, is she is pandering to the favor of many within Judaism and Christianity, who want to believe her message and draw comfort from it.
In doing so, she is definitely, but perhaps inadvertently, not serving the God she professes to love, but rather the enemy she imagines she is fighting against.
Do you think God is honored by the classical bigoted gospel presentation we have been giving? As I said I am an evangelist, with many years of experience dealing with a wide variety of people. If your mind is at all open please review this post and see if you still think I am a mercenary Christian.
Mary, I am not entirely sure what you consider to be ‘the classic bigoted gospel presentation’, or who exactly you are including in your definition of ‘we’.
I am an Evangelical Christian Zionist who loves Israel and the Chosen People for different reasons than you laid on Evangelicals in general in your writing.
Your words suggest you should know that there is actually a significant disparity of beliefs among Evangelicals, including a growing body who hold to ‘Replacement Theology’ and/or the abomination of ‘Christian Palestinianism’. But you make no such distinctions.
I know that God is grieved by the multitudes of professing Christians who hold to, and advocate for, Replacement Theology, and I am grieved by them as well. I am also grieved by many of the unbiblical, even evil, historical and current actions of those who profess to be followers of Jesus Christ. And I am confident He is as well.
I am Dispensational in terms of my Bible perspective, viewing the Word through the lense of the Literal, Grammatical, Historical Hermeneutic. I make no apologies for that whatsoever.
Those perspectives have been under attack from within ‘the Church’ for decades now, with a vehemence that has been disconcerting to witness, and steadily increasing. It is very clear that a major focus of the attacks is to undermine ‘classic’ Evangelical support for Israel and the Chosen People. And, tragically, it seems those who seek to do so have succeeded to a significant extent.
So, in closing, I disagree with many positions that many Christians hold and express, including many of those you made in your article. But I don’t question your profession of faith, or salvation. And, though I wish you well, I am not inclined to debate these matters further.
She is certainly misrepresenting the truth, and what she says is not Biblical. There are many within the Christian church who are not genuine Christians, and that has been the case for 2000 years. Does she really love Jesus Christ? Maybe so, but her article didn't show any evidence of that.
Mary, this truly touched me (Crackpot that I am) an' spoken so eloquently an' pithily too!:
...."is what convinced me that Jews and other wise and holy people do not need Christianity. (...) and you don’t need our church. You have a powerful and beautiful relationship with God just as you are. What you and other people need is for me to be a solid and faithful Christian, faithful to my tradition and respectful of their tradition."
"Ve joos" don't have so many "friends" now. Whatever "Christian doctrine" sez (methinks there are many views on this an' I don't claim ta know ANY of 'em!), it seems that many of the Christians that support we choos only do so ta round us up in Israel so we all convert an' "your" Messiah blesses US. So it's kinda like acceptin' a hand from those that want'cha erased...just "later." I heard the Mormons only help with Jooish Geneology so they can baptise us after we're dead! (oy) Soooo many times I git quesy that much Christian support comes with a price / strings attached. THANK YOU fer bravely cuttin' those strings away!
Bless you for recognizin' that we can hold our faith in our hearts "as is" an' still have respect & fondness for our friends that embrace Jesus (who wuz not, lol, born Fallastinian!) an' we can enjoy life sharin' this beautiful (albeit now dangerous!) world together an' mutually! Yours may be the road seldom traveled but I sho' nuff appreciate your takin' it an' sharing your journey!
As a believer in Jesus Christ as the Jewish messiah and saviour of the world I find this article highly offensive. The writer uses a rude mocking tone while caricaturing and misrepresenting what orthodox evangelicals believe. Given that orthodox evangelicals make up a large percentage of Christians who support Israel you might like to consider having a more balanced and considered presentation that is honest and true to what both Jesus and his apostles (who were Jewish) taught. Bruce Armstrong
Well, if you have already sentenced me to hell, no need to worry, but if you would like to hear a little more about what I believe, then consider reading this post - on a day when you're not so angry.
The words of Jesus Christ Himself: " And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, Whom You have sent." John 17:3. If knowing God and Jesus Christ is the definition of eternal life, not knowing God and Jesus Christ is eternal death. There is no room there for any other way to God. Also John 14:6: I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No man cometh unto the Father, but by Me." Very clear.
Thank you. I have had the most atrocious experiences from ‘religious’ people done in the name of The State, where ‘The State’ is a cover protection for Racist Evangelical Christianity and is used as such by homosexual and perverted members of MI6. This Program is a very widespread and undercover psyops against both Jews and Non-Whites, and is sanctioned by The State, including the Wholesale forging of Religious experience. So, Thanks for leaving us alone. We each do religion, whose basis starts and ends with the INDIVIDUAL and the personal and felt experience of individual Conscience, our own way. The State and MI6 attacked this in me by attacking my consciousness itself, on a totally immersive basis. They do this to many thousands of people in each of the countries they operate in. All of what I have just said is proven and verified, including the Military Kit used.
To say it very simply, it’s about which god I prefer which is definitely not the Muslim one, hence western world needs to clear their borders for freedom and further progress.
Of the three great monotheistic faiths, Judaism is the oldest, the smallest, and the original, followed by Christianity in its various denominations, then Islam in its denominations. What sets Judaism apart is Jews feel no need to proselytize, to convert others, to insist the Jewish path is the only path to Hashem and to the afterlife. The Torah and Talmud make no mention of Christianity or Islam, say nothing negative about these latter faiths, and certainly do not state among its doctrines that only those who are Jewish can know Hashem. This does not make Judaism superior, but helps to explain why Jews have suffered so terribly over the centuries by those who pronounce they are doing so in the name of Christianity or the name of Islam. Jews have not persecutied Christians or Muslims for the sake of Judaism, the notion is absurd. But as the devil despised and tormented Job for his faith in Hashem despite calamities, so too does the devil despise and torment the Jewish people for our faith in Hashem despite calamities. So one must question, when they deride and torment Jews, are they not doing the work of the devil, the great deceiver?
One of my adventures in understanding Judaism was reading Job with Jews in mind, over the centuries, and the answer God gave him at the end. The Leviathan image to me signifies Satan. Satan, hardship, things that happen that challenge our assumptions, puncture the pride of people who think they have God all figured out, that He fits in their pocket and answers to them. Job realizes in the end that God understand him, but that he does not fully understand God. Judaism knows its not their job to understand God but to serve Him, no matter what.
Astute observation and insights! Though made in G-d's image, man is incapable of fully understanding Hashem. It may seem superficial but when younger I became interested in Kabbalah, which is esoteric and confusing in many respects. I purchased a twelve cassette volume of 30 minute lectures by a rabbi about Kabbalah. A few lessons resonated, one especially. It taught that the wisest man can only understand and experience 3% of the world, so it is foolish to conclude we have all the answers and insights. This lesson keeps one humble and makes it easier to accept the inevitable tragedies and sadness that sometimes enters into our lives.
Truly relevant article.
Regarding the observations "Are our religions actually tribal warriors who cannot countenance the salvation of anyone but us? Do we see other religious groups as competitors, or as children of God who speak a different language? Did not one Creator make us all? Can we identify a true religion that unites a believer with the God who created all of us? Can we distinguish that from a cult that manufactures hatred and division? Do we believe our religion is superior to all others? Or can we see the gifts and beauties of the Holy Spirit in people who worship God differently?"
Any religion that espouses the 4 Theologies: Fulfillment, Replacement, Successionism, and Supremacist Theology needs the spiritual strength to face this legacy, repudiate it in principle, and put into practice their negation. You have astutely suggested most of the means do undo these spiritual sins in the paragraph just cited.
"Our reaction to God’s planting of Israel in your own land reveals our attitude not just towards Israel, but towards your God."
Tried to explain to a Morman acquaintance that God is not a Jewish God but a Universal Creator who just has an agreement with us. Does not mean that the Ens does not have agreements and expectations of other peoples.
Contrary to how the Arabs and their sympathizers view the 1917 Balfour Declaration, it was not a granting of land to the Jews but a recognition of the land as the Jews' national homeland.
"a papal document that announced, in front of God and everybody, that you Jews did not have to convert to Christianity to be saved."
THis is a Christocentric view of Judaism. We do not have to be saved as we are not born sinners or lost. What is expected of us is to do what HaShem asked of us — in one nutshell, observe the 10 Commandments, in another, as Hillel the Elder (d 10 CE) said to a student who wanted the entire Torah to be explained while he stood on one foot, "What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation of this—go and study it!"
"It is impossible for us to stomach the possibility that perhaps you know our Jesus better than we do, follow him more authentically than we do, and study his Scripture and chant the prayers that our Church has completely forgotten."
It is simpler for us. You know the bumper sticker that says "My God's father was a carpenter", for us we say God is the father of the carpenter — and everyone else, thus our Hebrew expression we were created "B'tzelem Hashem," in the likeness (not image. The word for image appears in the phrase "Image of God" where the word for graven image is "pesel." is (See in Exod 20:3 https://mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0220.htm?6c763e848c). Ultimately, it is enough for us to pray to the God your God prayed to. How can one go wrong with that!
Pardon the pun, but your analysis of the Jews for Jesus movement, and its offshoot, Messianic Judaism nailed it.
"“Cursed is he who does the work of the LORD deceitfully” (Jeremiah 48:10 - New King James Version)"
Interestingly the Hebrew English version of Jeremiah 48:10 reads "Cursed be he that doeth the work of the LORD with a slack hand, and cursed be he that keepeth back his sword from blood." Quite different.
To Jewish ears, the expression "You already have the God we know as Jesus" is a bit of a contradiction in terms because Jesus was a mortal (he died. Didn't matter that he supposedly came back; he still died) while God is immortal.
"Our reaction to you is our reaction to your God."
He is not our God, As Creator of the \Universe, He is the God of all.
"God created us with an insatiable desire to learn, to master, to study, to explain, to understand, and with that drive He gives us infinite subject material, Himself."
Sublime. Thank you.
The God we know as Jesus is not a scrawny little guy flying around in space but the Risen One filling all space and time. Like all good Jews Jesus is transparent, when we look at his life and character we see the same God who forgive you and loves you. He does not share his glory with another.
The spiritual space we come from is so vastly different from the one you were born into that while an incarnate God is impossible and obscene to you, it is necessary and life giving to us. That One God could create so many different soul types and reveal himself to all of them in ways that make perfect sense to each one, but are mud and mystery to all the others, kind of boggles the mind.
Yet we discount each others experiences with God and call them idolatry or depravity or perdition rather than listen in wonder at what the Creator has done in the other’s life through a dead rabbi from Galilee. We dehumanize each other with our conviction that everybody sees God the same way we see God, and it leads to tragedy, as you know.
To quote Jules Isaac, Antisemitism would be able to bloom and diversify in the eras to come, it found its finished model there in the fourth century. Under the influence of the Fathers of the Church, notably Saint John Chrysostom, imperial legislation tended to alter to the detriment of the Jews, to take on even the tone of the anti-Jewish polemic. Material violence followed: synagogues were confiscated and burned, sometimes at the instigation of ecclesiastic authorities; and when the emperor wanted to deal severely with these acts in protection of public order and of a noble tradition of equity, Saint Ambrose threatened him with excommunication.
“Among the Christian masses – the more malleable they tended to grow, the more ignorant, more crude, more mixed with barbarians – everything combined to mold this anti-Jewish mentality, permeated with a sacred horror of “the deicidal people.” As the admirable Christian liturgy, so persuasively efficacious, took form, the hymns and prayers, the readings and sermons insistently recalled “the odious crime perpetrated by the Jews.” The majesty of the setting, the solemnity of the setting, the beauty of the words and voices helped incise in the hearts of the faithful sentiments that would nevermore be blotted out, which would be transmitted from century to century and would ultimately aggregate, to form what could be called “the Christian consciousness.” #_ftn1
#_ftnref1 Jules Isaac, Jesus and Israel, pp. 242-3.
I’m so glad they give us so much space to communicate on this forum, unlike X where you get 280 characters and that’s it.
Thank you for your thoughtful response. Good familiarity with at least one Father of the Church and a one of the four original Doctors of the Church.
A few observations if I may:
we see the same God who forgive you and loves you”
Christianity begins with the assumption that the individual is born in sin and therefore needs divine forgiveness at birth. Judaism does not subscribe to Original Sin. Yes, Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, but that does not mean mankind is now born cursed.
In Judaism, one cannot be considered to have committed a sin if one is unaware that the deed is sinful. It may be wrong but not sinful. Setting a plate of freshly baked chocolate chip cookies in front of a toddler, then telling the child not to eat, leaving the room, and letting the older brother come in knowing it will coax the child to eat absolves the child of any disobedience to the parent’s wishes. For us, everyone is born in innocence with no ability to accept responsibility for their actions until they attain some level of mature awareness.
Even more blatant in the Adam-Eve story is that God placed the knowledge of good and evil in the fruit of the tree. This knowledge was not in Adam or Eve, so they could not know they were doing wrong. There is even more telling evidence. God lured Eve by placing the fruit not only in the garden but in the centre of the garden, that point at which all paths must cross. He also entrapped them when the serpent, the most cunning of creatures created by God and allowed by Him to be in the garden in the first place, used its powers of persuasion to convince Eve it was okay to eat. She never stood a chance.
“it is necessary and life giving to us. That One God could create so many different soul types and reveal himself to all of them in ways that make perfect sense to each one, but are mud and mystery to all the others“
Very nice sentiment but is problematic for two reasons. Firstly, it is heretical because it blatantly violates Christian Trinitarian doctrine.
On that point, one wonders how Christians can claim to be monotheists when they believe not in monotheism's central tenet of a one, indivisible God but rather three distinct gods. Doesn't this place them squarely in the camp of polytheism?
Secondly, while the universalist sentiment is laudable, echoing the idea of good will towards all men (and women), the idea that Jesus died for the sins of all (wo)men casts him as one of myths world saviors (for fuller detail check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World%27s_Sixteen_Crucified_Savior). However, he only saves if one believe in him, reducing him to a cult savior rather than a world savior.
The observation “an incarnate God is impossible and obscene to you” is a bit of a misrepresentation of our actual position. Worse, it even promotes anti-Jewish prejudice. There is no obscenity to believing as you do. Be that as it may, in keeping with the 10 Commandments, which even Christians say is divine ordinance, any violation of the absolute oneness of God is idolatry per Exod 20:3-4. Worshiping a man as a god is therefore a form of idolatry.
“anti-Jewish mentality, permeated with a sacred horror of “the deicidal people.”
The religious term is “Christ killers.” Raises and interesting question. If the Jews had not supposedly killed Jesus — supposedly, as there is no evidence for that claim — he would not have been able to have died for men’s sins but rather he would have died of old age. In that case, who would save Christians from themselves?
You make excellent points
"Reducing him to a cult savior rather than a world savior" is exactly the point I am making in this article. The drive to control access to God is central in fundamentalism in all religions. Cain killed Abel because Abel had a relationship with God that Cain did not think he deserved.
There seems to be collective misreading and therefrom misunderstanding by all religious communities about what was taking place in the Cain-Abel story.
In a fit of pique. God said to Adam "cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life" Gen. 3:17 KJV. Abel offered food from the hunt, not from the field. Thus it was acceptable to God. On the other hand, Cain offered food from the harvest of his toil on the land. In other words, he was offering God tainted food and so his offering was unacceptable. It is another instance where God sets himself up to be bested. Not unusual for trickster gods of all religions.
Another interesting point overlooked by theologians is that if Adam and Eve could not be condemned for sinning because knowledge of sinning lay outside themselves, the same could not be said of Cain. Therefore the killing of his brother, done with foreknowledge that it was wrong makes his action the Original Sin. This sin dovetails with Jewish thinking that all humans were created in the likeness of God, and therefore inflicting harm on another person is attacking the likeness of God. Too bad it is a lesson humanity has not learned because it misfocused on disobedience to authority as a sin rather than on the shedding of blood.
"You done good". Not without effort and pensiveness. You get a 98.6% approval rating. The measly difference is not worth a quibble. But so ya don't lose any sleep,... I'm not 100% with your use of one word. You name it as 'galah'. Sort of, yes-ish. Maybe. The sources I look at and looked up to check give a slightly different transformation from Hebrew to English. Some words that I lazily call Hebrew are in rare occasions actually Aramaic. Anyways, you certainly did a great and gutsy rendition of the 'whole megillah'. Well done!!! And... without going into details, "I'm familiar with the territory" of your text. Well done.
See what happens when a Gentile learns just enough Hebrew to be dangerous???
I do:):) But, you ARE doing GREAT!! May I cross the great divide of the protocol of social politeness? The protocol is to NEVER say ANYTHING that may possibly be 'controversial'. I beg to differ with such protocol. I prefer to experience the difficulties of talking with unknown persons as well as with friends with a large dollop of politeness combined with an equal dollop of risk to delve into the muddy waters of ideas, issues, and spirit, et. For several years if I or if 'one' puts a Jewish topic into giggle search it is highly likely that imediately there will be mostly proselytizing videos. Many of those proseltyizers and their organizations are misleading. You have explain their planned deceptions. Well done. But here the point is that even if a Jewish person such as myself puts a Jewish term or subject into 'giggle' search I'm inudated with 'mock' Jewish sites. There are millions of bona fide Christians who know a LOT more Hebrew and a LOT more Torah than I do. But, I'm catching up. Albeit unbelievably slow and in total delight along the long path. So, Dear Merry Mary.... just in case.... I hope that you help others to learn to discern between 'mock' Jewish sites vs bona fide and IDEALLY 'orthodox' Jewish sites. We know, or at least you and I know, there ARE theological differences between bona fide Christian interpretations of Torah/Tanach/Talmudic etc texts versus bona fide 'orthodox' Jewish interpretations. Likewise even for real depth of most single Hebrew words... generally speaking of course... it is more authentic via our own Jewish 'orthodox' Rabbis and sites. NONETHLESS... your use of THAT single word 'galah' as you placed it and your excellent preliminary understand that a single word in Hebrew does have a rich and philosophical meaning that is not apparent at first glance. YOU done well!!! Thank you. In fact, I hear rumors that THE most quoted sentence. phrase, and even a SINGLE word most often quoted by the proselytizers ... is twisted for a theological purpose. That is a tiny quote from Isaiah. So in fact, a single word can cause a LOT of disharmony between those who are MUCH closer than they are distant. "theology" has a LOT to answer for. yadda yadda... Sincere Regards, Ira
I hang out on Chabad.com for real translation and all, but I just noticed those accidental common letters while trying to sound things out and it SPOKE to me. Christians assume that the exile meant Jews were rejected by God. That 2nd century consensus is still alive and still harmful. I wanted to show Christians there is another way to look at the exile, and its hidden in that word.
There are lots of words, especially in Isaiah, that Christians twist and think they are proving something, but that really impoverish our Christianity. If you are interested, (or someone else reading the comments is) I have a post about that. https://open.substack.com/pub/maryfholley/p/language-barrier?r=4939op&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false
Chabad site is a marvel. Vivid, virtuous, vital, and varied.
Thanks for this deep dive into all three religions. There is much to ponder here. As an aside, Jews-for-Jesus make my skin crawl. Just saying. Oddly, I don’t have that reaction to the dozens of Muslims (some of whom surely want me and all Jews to be dead) whom I pass on Vancouver streets every time I go out. We do tend to have strong reactions when it comes to religion, sadly. Why is that? Anyway, my strong reaction to you, Mary, is one of wishing there were more thoughtful Christians like you, and like the beautiful friends and family to whom I will forward this post. Judaism has been a huge gift to me and I can tell that Christianity has been for you. May we all go from strength to strength.
Our religion is the core of our identity. It is our connection to our Maker, and nothing could be more important to us. Sever that connection and we are brains in a body and not much more. So we get defensive and shrill about anything that attacks our religion forgetting that our religion is not GOD, but a method of communing with Him. I am fascinated by other people's methods of reaching God because I can see the Being I call Jesus and experience at the foot of the cross in so many of them - not all- but many.
Whoever wrote this article is certainly not a Christian. I don't think I've ever read such a distorted description of the Christian faith. The essence of the Christian faith is that God has reached down to us and paid for our sins in the death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, His only begotten Son. Our faith is not grounded in our good works or righteousness, but in Him and in what Her has fine for us. There is no other Name under heaven given to men whereby we must be saved other than Jesus Christ, and that applies to all of us, Jew or Gentile. Jesus came for the Jew first, and also for the rest of us. We love and worship the God Who has been so gracious to all of us, and as a Christian I honour the Jewish people for being the means whereby God's salvation came to all mankind. But there is still no other way than through the Lord Jesus Christ. I'm sorry if this offends you, but it is the truth.
It is YOUR truth and you have every right to it. But Christianity, (and any other religion) have no monopoly on the “truth”. This not accepted fact is the huge difference between Judaism and other religions. Judaism has no need or interest, in forcing people to think in any religious way, which does not fit their own soul. Most other religions do- to the world’s detriment…….
Jesus Christ is the Truth. He said, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me." John 14:6. There is only one Truth, and He is it. Sorry if this offends you.
Those of us who are more evolved know that Jesus meant his way OF BEING- through love, compassion, and forgiveness. Jews do not need Jesus- they have the God of Torah who created Jesus for the Gentiles.
No, every person since Adam has needed a sacrifice for sin. God gave the Jews the animal sacrifice system looking forward to the time when He would provide a perfect Lamb - the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ, the Jewish Messiah. He gave Himself to suffer death on our behalf, because all sin must be punished by death. (Romans 6:23) Those who accept His sacrifice are cleansed from their sins and given His righteousness, so are able to be in a relationship with God, adopted into His family as sons. Those who reject Him have to pay for their own sins by death, not only temporal but eternal, and are cut off from God for all eternity. As God said to His people, "Behold, I set before you life and death. Therefore choose life ..." (Deuteronomy 30:19) Without Christ, we have no sacrifice for sin, and have to pay that eternal debt ourselves. Thankfully, God honoured His promise to provide a perfect sacrifice for sin, and sent Jesus, Who came for the Jew first, but also for the Gentile. The Bible says that all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags. (Isaiah 64:6) We cannot save ourselves by "being good" or doing good deeds, or living by the Torah. As good as that is, we have already broken God's law. We need Jesus Christ. The ancient sacrificial system has been done away with. It is no longer needed, because it has been fulfilled in Jesus Christ, the perfect Lamb of God.
This is all Fear-mongering BULLcrap! WE are NEVER cut off permanently from God...unless we CHOOSE to be. You seriously need to read accounts of people who have had Near Death Experiences- literally thousands of these experiences describe an unconditionally loving presence - depending on the person's religion and his/her belief- that does NOT JUDGE. WE judge OURSELVES when we each have a LIFE REVIEW after death- we are shown our entire lives like pictures on a screen, and how every word and action we have directed towards others has a ripple effect in the world. We are all connected as ONE. There is NO death. The soul is merely freed from the body and learns the Truth when it goes into the Light- and the unconditionally loving presence of the Divine.
Sorry, but that's not what the Bible teaches. It may sound nice, but it's not true. If you want the truth, go to Jesus Christ, Who is the Truth.
So are good people, who happen not to be Christians, Damned?
It's very sad, but there are no "good" people. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23). We are not measured by our standard of goodness, or by comparison with other people who are better or worse than we are, but by the righteous standard of God Himself. He demands absolute perfection. If a person has committed even one sin in his whole entire life, he is liable for death, because the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). That is why God in His love and mercy had to send a perfect Sacrifice for sin; actually, He paid the penalty Himself in the Person of His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ. So the answer to your question is, anybody who has not accepted Christ's sacrifice on his behalf has to pay the penalty himself, just as if I were fined for speeding and refused to accept somebody else paying my fine, I would have to pay it myself. Sin is an affront to a perfect, righteous and holy God. We take it lightly, but He does not.
You and I might disagree on certain other details Alison, but I wouldn’t go so far as to label the author ‘not a Christian’. She may, in fact be, but also be misguided and seriously misrepresenting the truth in a number of areas, including historical Evangelicalism. What is very clear, however, is she is pandering to the favor of many within Judaism and Christianity, who want to believe her message and draw comfort from it.
In doing so, she is definitely, but perhaps inadvertently, not serving the God she professes to love, but rather the enemy she imagines she is fighting against.
Do you think God is honored by the classical bigoted gospel presentation we have been giving? As I said I am an evangelist, with many years of experience dealing with a wide variety of people. If your mind is at all open please review this post and see if you still think I am a mercenary Christian.
https://open.substack.com/pub/maryfholley/p/saved-by-faith-faith-in-god-not-faith?r=4939op&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false
Mary, I am not entirely sure what you consider to be ‘the classic bigoted gospel presentation’, or who exactly you are including in your definition of ‘we’.
I am an Evangelical Christian Zionist who loves Israel and the Chosen People for different reasons than you laid on Evangelicals in general in your writing.
Your words suggest you should know that there is actually a significant disparity of beliefs among Evangelicals, including a growing body who hold to ‘Replacement Theology’ and/or the abomination of ‘Christian Palestinianism’. But you make no such distinctions.
I know that God is grieved by the multitudes of professing Christians who hold to, and advocate for, Replacement Theology, and I am grieved by them as well. I am also grieved by many of the unbiblical, even evil, historical and current actions of those who profess to be followers of Jesus Christ. And I am confident He is as well.
I am Dispensational in terms of my Bible perspective, viewing the Word through the lense of the Literal, Grammatical, Historical Hermeneutic. I make no apologies for that whatsoever.
Those perspectives have been under attack from within ‘the Church’ for decades now, with a vehemence that has been disconcerting to witness, and steadily increasing. It is very clear that a major focus of the attacks is to undermine ‘classic’ Evangelical support for Israel and the Chosen People. And, tragically, it seems those who seek to do so have succeeded to a significant extent.
So, in closing, I disagree with many positions that many Christians hold and express, including many of those you made in your article. But I don’t question your profession of faith, or salvation. And, though I wish you well, I am not inclined to debate these matters further.
God bless, Mike
She is certainly misrepresenting the truth, and what she says is not Biblical. There are many within the Christian church who are not genuine Christians, and that has been the case for 2000 years. Does she really love Jesus Christ? Maybe so, but her article didn't show any evidence of that.
If you can calm down a little and not judge me by one piece of writing, please review this post and see if you think I love Jesus.
https://maryfholley.substack.com/p/what-is-your-gpa-your-gratitude-praise?r=4939op
Mary, this truly touched me (Crackpot that I am) an' spoken so eloquently an' pithily too!:
...."is what convinced me that Jews and other wise and holy people do not need Christianity. (...) and you don’t need our church. You have a powerful and beautiful relationship with God just as you are. What you and other people need is for me to be a solid and faithful Christian, faithful to my tradition and respectful of their tradition."
"Ve joos" don't have so many "friends" now. Whatever "Christian doctrine" sez (methinks there are many views on this an' I don't claim ta know ANY of 'em!), it seems that many of the Christians that support we choos only do so ta round us up in Israel so we all convert an' "your" Messiah blesses US. So it's kinda like acceptin' a hand from those that want'cha erased...just "later." I heard the Mormons only help with Jooish Geneology so they can baptise us after we're dead! (oy) Soooo many times I git quesy that much Christian support comes with a price / strings attached. THANK YOU fer bravely cuttin' those strings away!
Bless you for recognizin' that we can hold our faith in our hearts "as is" an' still have respect & fondness for our friends that embrace Jesus (who wuz not, lol, born Fallastinian!) an' we can enjoy life sharin' this beautiful (albeit now dangerous!) world together an' mutually! Yours may be the road seldom traveled but I sho' nuff appreciate your takin' it an' sharing your journey!
Hi Daisy.
! חי
As a believer in Jesus Christ as the Jewish messiah and saviour of the world I find this article highly offensive. The writer uses a rude mocking tone while caricaturing and misrepresenting what orthodox evangelicals believe. Given that orthodox evangelicals make up a large percentage of Christians who support Israel you might like to consider having a more balanced and considered presentation that is honest and true to what both Jesus and his apostles (who were Jewish) taught. Bruce Armstrong
Well, if you have already sentenced me to hell, no need to worry, but if you would like to hear a little more about what I believe, then consider reading this post - on a day when you're not so angry.
https://open.substack.com/pub/maryfholley/p/repentance-teshuvah-style?r=4939op&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true
The words of Jesus Christ Himself: " And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, Whom You have sent." John 17:3. If knowing God and Jesus Christ is the definition of eternal life, not knowing God and Jesus Christ is eternal death. There is no room there for any other way to God. Also John 14:6: I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No man cometh unto the Father, but by Me." Very clear.
Thank you. I have had the most atrocious experiences from ‘religious’ people done in the name of The State, where ‘The State’ is a cover protection for Racist Evangelical Christianity and is used as such by homosexual and perverted members of MI6. This Program is a very widespread and undercover psyops against both Jews and Non-Whites, and is sanctioned by The State, including the Wholesale forging of Religious experience. So, Thanks for leaving us alone. We each do religion, whose basis starts and ends with the INDIVIDUAL and the personal and felt experience of individual Conscience, our own way. The State and MI6 attacked this in me by attacking my consciousness itself, on a totally immersive basis. They do this to many thousands of people in each of the countries they operate in. All of what I have just said is proven and verified, including the Military Kit used.
Many 'christians' are completely anti-Israel and jews. What they forget is that Jesus was not only a jew, but also the SON OF GOD.
If not for God, Israel would have been wiped off the face of the earth by its enemies a long time ago.
To say it very simply, it’s about which god I prefer which is definitely not the Muslim one, hence western world needs to clear their borders for freedom and further progress.