This is exactly the argument against which liberals are presenting their disapproval – nationalism is equated to all other isms: capitalism and fascism, further extended to apartheid, etc.
Ironically, they don't recognize that liberalism is also an -ism.
Most interesting is that in the past, Jewish people were blamed for cosmopolitanism, which is the opposite of nationalism. So, no matter what, the no-win situation when it applies to the Jewish people. But the argument that nationalism can get some positive traction with liberals is quite unlikely.
Thank you, Joshua, for this beautiful tribute to Israel and its unique brand of nationalism. Maybe nationalism is not such a dirty word after all. Where else in the world can we point to the factors that have birthed nationalistic democracy besides Israel? I truly hope there are other countries that have discovered the magic in the combo.
True! As a matter of principle, I personally have NO use for nationalism, and despise it! However, an exception must be made with persecuted and oppressed people, such as Jews, Native Americans and other at risk nations.
“See, I have set the land before you, go in and take possession of the land that the Lord swore to your fathers…and their offspring after them.” Deuteronomy 1:8.
There are aspects of what you describe that are positive, however, I'm not a fan of Bibis nationalism. He's undoing every aspect of your democracy. Your Supreme Court changes comes to mind. Look what's happening to us in the US and you'll see what's next for you.
As Jews, we can't trust Nationalism to protect us. It never does. Trumps disappearing of Palestinian students is backfiring spectacularly, and creating more hate for Jews. Many of Trumps top people are Natzi supporters. Nationalism isn't the way to go. Democracy is.
The hatred of Jews is not being caused by anything Trump has done; it is something that has been long actively promoted by Iran, Qatar, Hamas and their Western allies. Every "explanation," for many centuries, has just been an excuse.
You're absolutely correct, and his latest deportation moves are really problematic.
Sill, Trump isn't a friend of the Jews despite all appearances. The deportations allows for other people to be deported including, blacks, jews and many others.
Why are they problematic? As Mario Rubio points out, foreigners here on visas or green cards are expected not to engage in hostile politics; their permission to be in the US is conditional on good behavior.
But Sally, I don’t think they are mutually exclusive. Before the national self-loathing caused by the Vietnam War, for my generation at least, the USA had plenty of both nationalism and democracy, happily co-existing. Nationalism got a bad rap because of countries that had too much of it and no democracy. Joshua’s article makes me reconsider my negative beliefs about it.
I agree , they are not mutually exclusive. We have too much Nationalism in the US- look at what Trump is doing to America.He's dismantling it. His final version of America in project 2025 ends with Christian Nationalism. There's no room for us in that.
Odd that ultra fanatic ethno-religious Palestinianist nationalism is held to be the highest ideal to which humankind can aspire. Years ago on the far left kibbutz I volunteered on....well, that is where I was sent....I didn't chose it.....my friend who had been born in Poland and fought during WWII told me that he is not Zionist, but this ....Israel...is his country. Since we conversed in my basic Ulpan Hebrew, I couldn't understand his thought behind such a statement. Today, the seth rogans and tony Kushners of the world will tell American Jews....yes, the Jews suffered...but they then did exactly the same to the innocent native Arabs of Palestine that had been done to them...genocide....when they should have demanded Bavaria for a Jewish state. Given the number of Haaretz readers on the Tel Aviv Museum plaza and the virulent anti Zionism of Israeli born professors in the USA and the UK I don't know what to make of nationalism and national pride in Israel....but you live there and you interact day to day with the Israelis. Looks like after Oct. 8, the reservists who said they'd not fight for Israel under its current alleged ultranationalist totalitarian police state leaders...they....fought.
Nationalism or globalism? No contest. Nationalism = Sovereign borders, preservation of unique cultures and heritage, protecting the citizens of the nation, a healthy economy, lawfulness.
It isn’t “ isolationism”. What comes to mind is “ When in Rome, do as the Romans do”
Globalism= Well.. Look at UK, France, Germany, Australia,Netherlands, Sweden, Canada, Spain… NYC, LA, SF, Chicago, Minneapolis, Patterson, Dearborn,El Paso
The most popular male name , adults, teens and babies in UK and Wales is Mohammed.
The only 2 European nations not allowing for migrant incursion are Slovenia and Hungary and ironically, both countries are the safest for Jews. The most protective. In Latin America, Argentina, Panama and El Salvador.
Japan is nationalist and has a very low crime rate. It’s a wonderful place to visit because it’s clean, safe and so very interesting. Any of the aforementioned countries has very strict immigration policies and if you are to live there, you are to live by there rules.
Israel should leave the UN. It would be smart, bold and respectable. It would elevate Israel’s global standing and likely inspire others to follow suit. I wish the U.S. would withdraw from the UN and expel the entire organization from American soil. It is the most destructive hub of evil on Earth. Followed by the CIA.
Robert Welch, Pat Moynihan, Goldwater, Rod Serling, McLuhan, Huxley , Orwell , Mike Flynn and Frank Gaffney were and are absolutely right.
Further, you somewhat shoot yourself in the foot when in one breath you site Einstein and 25 other Jewish intellectuals calling Menachem Begin and Irgun 'fascists and religious fanatics'...
Then in the next sentence suggest that 'like many Jews, are pathological liars..'
So, were Einstein and those 25 Jewish intellectuals lying when they made their comments about Begin and Irgun...
Good response to the nutjob Alec, who must love Trump because he uses an image of Trump with a yarmulke as his avatar. Or maybe believes Trump is actually a Jew, or controlled by Jews. Who cares? Don't waste much time getting into a braying contest with this jackass, who also repeats nonsense from the pseudo-intellectual Jew hater Unz that Israel was behind the Kennedy assassination.
This is exactly the argument against which liberals are presenting their disapproval – nationalism is equated to all other isms: capitalism and fascism, further extended to apartheid, etc.
Ironically, they don't recognize that liberalism is also an -ism.
Most interesting is that in the past, Jewish people were blamed for cosmopolitanism, which is the opposite of nationalism. So, no matter what, the no-win situation when it applies to the Jewish people. But the argument that nationalism can get some positive traction with liberals is quite unlikely.
Thank you, Joshua, for this beautiful tribute to Israel and its unique brand of nationalism. Maybe nationalism is not such a dirty word after all. Where else in the world can we point to the factors that have birthed nationalistic democracy besides Israel? I truly hope there are other countries that have discovered the magic in the combo.
True! As a matter of principle, I personally have NO use for nationalism, and despise it! However, an exception must be made with persecuted and oppressed people, such as Jews, Native Americans and other at risk nations.
“See, I have set the land before you, go in and take possession of the land that the Lord swore to your fathers…and their offspring after them.” Deuteronomy 1:8.
Nationalism.
Absolutely true!
There are aspects of what you describe that are positive, however, I'm not a fan of Bibis nationalism. He's undoing every aspect of your democracy. Your Supreme Court changes comes to mind. Look what's happening to us in the US and you'll see what's next for you.
As Jews, we can't trust Nationalism to protect us. It never does. Trumps disappearing of Palestinian students is backfiring spectacularly, and creating more hate for Jews. Many of Trumps top people are Natzi supporters. Nationalism isn't the way to go. Democracy is.
The hatred of Jews is not being caused by anything Trump has done; it is something that has been long actively promoted by Iran, Qatar, Hamas and their Western allies. Every "explanation," for many centuries, has just been an excuse.
You're absolutely correct, and his latest deportation moves are really problematic.
Sill, Trump isn't a friend of the Jews despite all appearances. The deportations allows for other people to be deported including, blacks, jews and many others.
Why are they problematic? As Mario Rubio points out, foreigners here on visas or green cards are expected not to engage in hostile politics; their permission to be in the US is conditional on good behavior.
But Sally, I don’t think they are mutually exclusive. Before the national self-loathing caused by the Vietnam War, for my generation at least, the USA had plenty of both nationalism and democracy, happily co-existing. Nationalism got a bad rap because of countries that had too much of it and no democracy. Joshua’s article makes me reconsider my negative beliefs about it.
I agree , they are not mutually exclusive. We have too much Nationalism in the US- look at what Trump is doing to America.He's dismantling it. His final version of America in project 2025 ends with Christian Nationalism. There's no room for us in that.
Odd that ultra fanatic ethno-religious Palestinianist nationalism is held to be the highest ideal to which humankind can aspire. Years ago on the far left kibbutz I volunteered on....well, that is where I was sent....I didn't chose it.....my friend who had been born in Poland and fought during WWII told me that he is not Zionist, but this ....Israel...is his country. Since we conversed in my basic Ulpan Hebrew, I couldn't understand his thought behind such a statement. Today, the seth rogans and tony Kushners of the world will tell American Jews....yes, the Jews suffered...but they then did exactly the same to the innocent native Arabs of Palestine that had been done to them...genocide....when they should have demanded Bavaria for a Jewish state. Given the number of Haaretz readers on the Tel Aviv Museum plaza and the virulent anti Zionism of Israeli born professors in the USA and the UK I don't know what to make of nationalism and national pride in Israel....but you live there and you interact day to day with the Israelis. Looks like after Oct. 8, the reservists who said they'd not fight for Israel under its current alleged ultranationalist totalitarian police state leaders...they....fought.
Wow! You sure can write!
Nationalism or globalism? No contest. Nationalism = Sovereign borders, preservation of unique cultures and heritage, protecting the citizens of the nation, a healthy economy, lawfulness.
It isn’t “ isolationism”. What comes to mind is “ When in Rome, do as the Romans do”
Globalism= Well.. Look at UK, France, Germany, Australia,Netherlands, Sweden, Canada, Spain… NYC, LA, SF, Chicago, Minneapolis, Patterson, Dearborn,El Paso
The most popular male name , adults, teens and babies in UK and Wales is Mohammed.
The only 2 European nations not allowing for migrant incursion are Slovenia and Hungary and ironically, both countries are the safest for Jews. The most protective. In Latin America, Argentina, Panama and El Salvador.
Japan is nationalist and has a very low crime rate. It’s a wonderful place to visit because it’s clean, safe and so very interesting. Any of the aforementioned countries has very strict immigration policies and if you are to live there, you are to live by there rules.
Israel should leave the UN. It would be smart, bold and respectable. It would elevate Israel’s global standing and likely inspire others to follow suit. I wish the U.S. would withdraw from the UN and expel the entire organization from American soil. It is the most destructive hub of evil on Earth. Followed by the CIA.
Robert Welch, Pat Moynihan, Goldwater, Rod Serling, McLuhan, Huxley , Orwell , Mike Flynn and Frank Gaffney were and are absolutely right.
Further, you somewhat shoot yourself in the foot when in one breath you site Einstein and 25 other Jewish intellectuals calling Menachem Begin and Irgun 'fascists and religious fanatics'...
Then in the next sentence suggest that 'like many Jews, are pathological liars..'
So, were Einstein and those 25 Jewish intellectuals lying when they made their comments about Begin and Irgun...
You can't have it both ways. :)
Good response to the nutjob Alec, who must love Trump because he uses an image of Trump with a yarmulke as his avatar. Or maybe believes Trump is actually a Jew, or controlled by Jews. Who cares? Don't waste much time getting into a braying contest with this jackass, who also repeats nonsense from the pseudo-intellectual Jew hater Unz that Israel was behind the Kennedy assassination.
Yes, I saw that. In fact it's inspired me to add it to my supreme dumbo list, alongside the Jews being responsible for 9/11.
I think on the lying stakes, any Jewish leader is a rank amateur when compared to Palestinian leaders.
Your comment 'like many Jews' somewhat exposes you as the sort of anti-Semite that I thought had disappeared along with toothbrush moustaches.